Apps for Recovery
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Apps for Recovery
New Apps for Recovery
Some people define “Recovery” as a program, a new way of live or an entirely new way of thinking. Each definition has some historical baggage associated with it that makes some people think of it as cult like. By substituting the word “App” for program, perhaps we can appeal to both people turned off by old terminology or attract young people who like talking about “Apps”. In this case the word “App” is short for application and a synonym for program. Recovery Apps provide a paradigm for a new way of life leading to long-term recovery.. There is a certain amount of overlap between all these Apps because they are all based on the central premise that “Recovery” is a new way of living and a new way of thinking.
The Principlism App
This App is based on the idea that if we simply learn to make most of our decisions on external principles instead of internal rationalization, addictive thoughts will not get into our head in the first place.
Rationalization leaves much room for corrupted thinking which strengthens the part of the brain used for justification, minimalization and denial. Living a life guided by external principles (such as honesty, open mindedness and willingness), installs a buffer into our thinking, which in turn, causes the rationalization part of the brain to atrophy.
The Occam’s Razor App
This view of recovery is a stripped down version of 12-step recovery reduced to the bare essentials of recovery. It is as simple as “123”;
1 Character Defect – Delusional Thinking: Which is the underlying cause of everything that either disturbs us, angers us or distorts our perspective on most everything which leads us astray.
2 Phases of new development. A struggle phase to see where we were weak, wrong or delusional. Sometimes known as self-appraisal. Followed by a surrender phase where we let go of the notion that we can fix our selves without outside help or new found power. Sometimes known as “Higher Power”.
3 Principles for new behavior; Humility, Benevolence and Detachment. There are hundreds of principles that could be used for recovery but by staying focused on the "Big Three" we can focus on the ones that get the fastest results. Principle principles are guidelines, algorithms or rules of engagement preconceived for dealing with future challenges.
The Spiritual Detachment App
Recognize my part (no one elses)
Do my part (only my part)
Trust my Higher Power to do it's part
Detach from the outcome
The Good Karma & Dharma App
The idea that actions, judgment and expectations project some form of reciprocal action much the way a boomerang is thrown out into our universe. However, unlike a boomerang in the real world, Karma & Dharma travel a path which not only varies in distance and duration, but also is completely invisible to us. We cannot count on any of these boomerangs to come back to us in a predictable way or time frame, but we can maximize our return on investment by simple throwing as many positive boomerangs as we possible can and minimizing the number of negative boomerangs we throw in the future. Sooner or later these boomerangs will come back to us in the form of equanimity and prosperity.
The Wu Wei App
The ancient art of Wu Wei is based on living a nonassertive lifestyle. That is one where we do not force anything to happen. We merely facilitate things to happen. We do our part, play our limited role in events and then patiently wait for the soft and invisible force of nature (known as “The Toa”) to provide the result.
The Zen App
"Zen" is a tough concept to define because it opposes any and all concepts in the first place. In order to define Zen, one must defy Zen by stepping outside of it and trying o point at something remotely resembling it.
Zen is not a religion, philosophy or paradigm that fits inside a box. In order to practice Zen, one needs to first use intellectualization to try and grasp it then do a complete turn around and abandon all intellectualization. Living the Zen way of life requires living entirely without judgment and expectations. Something requiring the practice of action without thinking about it. Zen is a close cousin to Wu Wei.
For recovery purposes, Zen negates all cravings. Including the ones that lead to relapses.
Some people define “Recovery” as a program, a new way of live or an entirely new way of thinking. Each definition has some historical baggage associated with it that makes some people think of it as cult like. By substituting the word “App” for program, perhaps we can appeal to both people turned off by old terminology or attract young people who like talking about “Apps”. In this case the word “App” is short for application and a synonym for program. Recovery Apps provide a paradigm for a new way of life leading to long-term recovery.. There is a certain amount of overlap between all these Apps because they are all based on the central premise that “Recovery” is a new way of living and a new way of thinking.
The Principlism App
This App is based on the idea that if we simply learn to make most of our decisions on external principles instead of internal rationalization, addictive thoughts will not get into our head in the first place.
Rationalization leaves much room for corrupted thinking which strengthens the part of the brain used for justification, minimalization and denial. Living a life guided by external principles (such as honesty, open mindedness and willingness), installs a buffer into our thinking, which in turn, causes the rationalization part of the brain to atrophy.
The Occam’s Razor App
This view of recovery is a stripped down version of 12-step recovery reduced to the bare essentials of recovery. It is as simple as “123”;
1 Character Defect – Delusional Thinking: Which is the underlying cause of everything that either disturbs us, angers us or distorts our perspective on most everything which leads us astray.
2 Phases of new development. A struggle phase to see where we were weak, wrong or delusional. Sometimes known as self-appraisal. Followed by a surrender phase where we let go of the notion that we can fix our selves without outside help or new found power. Sometimes known as “Higher Power”.
3 Principles for new behavior; Humility, Benevolence and Detachment. There are hundreds of principles that could be used for recovery but by staying focused on the "Big Three" we can focus on the ones that get the fastest results. Principle principles are guidelines, algorithms or rules of engagement preconceived for dealing with future challenges.
The Spiritual Detachment App
Recognize my part (no one elses)
Do my part (only my part)
Trust my Higher Power to do it's part
Detach from the outcome
The Good Karma & Dharma App
The idea that actions, judgment and expectations project some form of reciprocal action much the way a boomerang is thrown out into our universe. However, unlike a boomerang in the real world, Karma & Dharma travel a path which not only varies in distance and duration, but also is completely invisible to us. We cannot count on any of these boomerangs to come back to us in a predictable way or time frame, but we can maximize our return on investment by simple throwing as many positive boomerangs as we possible can and minimizing the number of negative boomerangs we throw in the future. Sooner or later these boomerangs will come back to us in the form of equanimity and prosperity.
The Wu Wei App
The ancient art of Wu Wei is based on living a nonassertive lifestyle. That is one where we do not force anything to happen. We merely facilitate things to happen. We do our part, play our limited role in events and then patiently wait for the soft and invisible force of nature (known as “The Toa”) to provide the result.
The Zen App
"Zen" is a tough concept to define because it opposes any and all concepts in the first place. In order to define Zen, one must defy Zen by stepping outside of it and trying o point at something remotely resembling it.
Zen is not a religion, philosophy or paradigm that fits inside a box. In order to practice Zen, one needs to first use intellectualization to try and grasp it then do a complete turn around and abandon all intellectualization. Living the Zen way of life requires living entirely without judgment and expectations. Something requiring the practice of action without thinking about it. Zen is a close cousin to Wu Wei.
For recovery purposes, Zen negates all cravings. Including the ones that lead to relapses.
Redmayne
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Posts: 1,543
Who knows?
Well, as the old saying goes, 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating', I presume, in a metaphorical sense this includes Apps?
Together with the Buddhist saying,'Anything that contradicts logic and common sense should be abandoned' ...
On that basis, the content of your thread and it's validity, in real terms, is down to interpretation by those reading it...
Who knows, they may come up with their own Apps, based on their own original thoughts as opposed to those plagiarised from others?
Together with the Buddhist saying,'Anything that contradicts logic and common sense should be abandoned' ...
On that basis, the content of your thread and it's validity, in real terms, is down to interpretation by those reading it...
Who knows, they may come up with their own Apps, based on their own original thoughts as opposed to those plagiarised from others?
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by Redmayne 
Who knows, they may come up with their own Apps, based on their own original thoughts as opposed to those plagiarised from others?
Thousands of hours of first hand experience.
Thousands of books.
Thousands of audio talks.
Hundreds of conversations with genuine good-old-timers.
Hundreds of PM's here at SR.
Hundreds of Web sites.
Dozens of different recovery programs.
Not to mention 4 years of University level Psychology, Philosophy and Computer Programing classes.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,666
I think he may have meant that, along with all of the ways it may be possible for some to find their own path, at least thats how I interpreted it.
I don't have my reading head on tonight but I very much enjoy some of the concepts you listed. Thanks for the post
I don't have my reading head on tonight but I very much enjoy some of the concepts you listed. Thanks for the post
Redmayne
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Posts: 1,543
What about a Keep It Simple App?
Like it suggests inn the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous', whatever path individuals chose to assist them in their recovery they, Keep It Simple....
After all, history records the most simple and effective ideas have often been the simplest, rather than their heads being filled by a lot of psuedo-ideas plagiarised from other well tested and trodden philosophies.
There's nothing original in what you have to say, as much as you dress it up as some form of original thought nor is there any purpose inn sending me abusive personal messages just because you can't take constructive comment or criticism...
After all, history records the most simple and effective ideas have often been the simplest, rather than their heads being filled by a lot of psuedo-ideas plagiarised from other well tested and trodden philosophies.
There's nothing original in what you have to say, as much as you dress it up as some form of original thought nor is there any purpose inn sending me abusive personal messages just because you can't take constructive comment or criticism...
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by Redmayne
Like it suggests inn the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous', whatever path individuals chose to assist them in their recovery they, Keep It Simple....
After all, history records the most simple and effective ideas have often been the simplest, rather than their heads being filled by a lot of psuedo-ideas plagiarised from other well tested and trodden philosophies.
There's nothing original in what you have to say, as much as you dress it up as some form of original thought nor is there any purpose inn sending me abusive personal messages just because you can't take constructive comment or criticism...
After all, history records the most simple and effective ideas have often been the simplest, rather than their heads being filled by a lot of psuedo-ideas plagiarised from other well tested and trodden philosophies.
There's nothing original in what you have to say, as much as you dress it up as some form of original thought nor is there any purpose inn sending me abusive personal messages just because you can't take constructive comment or criticism...
Am I detecting a little resentment and jealousy in your posts to me? Perhaps you should keep your snarky activity to PM's only? I have a lot more experience debating than you do. Something you have managed to hide out from by limiting your posts to this slow and uneventful forum.
P.S. Where does the Big Book say "Keep it Simple"?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Posts: 1,202
Well, I have to say - aside from the interpersonal spat going on - is, thanks Boleo. I really like your quite neat variety of 'Apps'.
And also tend to agree wholeheartedly about imagining them as such, especially for the youngsters (I'm an oldster, but tend not to bother too much with apps on my phone). I keep up closely with tech trends though, and know how devoted many of the younger generation/s are to their little appies :-)
Even as an AA member, I am in the (perhaps silent minority?) camp who suspect that some of the archaic language and cultural attitudes of the BB and most of the core trad literature may be one of the many possible reasons that the estimated worldwide membership has stayed relatively static for quite some years now. Just my considered opinion, anyway. Of course, it's almost impossible to utter such heresies in the rooms, in my own experience.
And this is also one of the reasons I prefer to 'do' my inner recovery work - aside from actual meetings - using a range of relatively recent books, podcast talks, etc across Buddhist recovery, Agnostica website [only one listed 'non-trad' Agnostica style meeting here in Aus - not too far from me, actually but at an awkward time of evening for me], and heaps of similar resources.
Thanks again for this offering. Could almost make a book out of this distillation of themes / opportunities, I reckon.
And also tend to agree wholeheartedly about imagining them as such, especially for the youngsters (I'm an oldster, but tend not to bother too much with apps on my phone). I keep up closely with tech trends though, and know how devoted many of the younger generation/s are to their little appies :-)
Even as an AA member, I am in the (perhaps silent minority?) camp who suspect that some of the archaic language and cultural attitudes of the BB and most of the core trad literature may be one of the many possible reasons that the estimated worldwide membership has stayed relatively static for quite some years now. Just my considered opinion, anyway. Of course, it's almost impossible to utter such heresies in the rooms, in my own experience.
And this is also one of the reasons I prefer to 'do' my inner recovery work - aside from actual meetings - using a range of relatively recent books, podcast talks, etc across Buddhist recovery, Agnostica website [only one listed 'non-trad' Agnostica style meeting here in Aus - not too far from me, actually but at an awkward time of evening for me], and heaps of similar resources.
Thanks again for this offering. Could almost make a book out of this distillation of themes / opportunities, I reckon.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
You like simple? I like simple.
I try to stay mindful of the fact that we could all do with a little closer observance of these guidelines from time to time.
These are the things I learned (in Kindergarten):
1. Share everything.
2. Play fair.
3. Don't hit people.
4. Put thngs back where you found them.
5. CLEAN UP YOUR OWN MESS.
6. Don't take things that aren't yours.
7. Say you're SORRY when you HURT somebody.
8. Wash your hands before you eat.
9. Flush.
10. Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
11. Live a balanced life - learn some and drink some and draw some and paint some and sing and dance and play and work everyday some.
12. Take a nap every afternoon.
13. When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands, and stick together.
14. Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Stryrofoam cup: The roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.
15. Goldfish and hamster and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.
16. And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first workd you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.”
1. Share everything.
2. Play fair.
3. Don't hit people.
4. Put thngs back where you found them.
5. CLEAN UP YOUR OWN MESS.
6. Don't take things that aren't yours.
7. Say you're SORRY when you HURT somebody.
8. Wash your hands before you eat.
9. Flush.
10. Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
11. Live a balanced life - learn some and drink some and draw some and paint some and sing and dance and play and work everyday some.
12. Take a nap every afternoon.
13. When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands, and stick together.
14. Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Stryrofoam cup: The roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.
15. Goldfish and hamster and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.
16. And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first workd you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.”
― Robert Fulghum, All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten
I try to stay mindful of the fact that we could all do with a little closer observance of these guidelines from time to time.
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
I throw out any experience unique to a single individual and focus on those experiences that overlap a wide variety of individuals. I also look for empirical evidence from science, medicine, history, philosophy and theology. I don't consider academic learning as experience in the first hand sense but as third hand experience used to keep me from straying too far from reality. The beauty of my methods has been that it corresponds quite well with what the genuinely good-old-timers have told me .
1. Keep it focused (not just simple).
2. Make and keep commitments.
3. Surrender as much judgement and expectations as possible.
4. Do my part (only my part).
5. Don't try and control the whole show.
6. Trust some Higher Power to provide the results.
7. Detach from the outcome.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
How about the other fallacy? Tu quoque? The one where the debater accuses his colleague of unrelated failings in an attempt to discredit his position? You good on that one too?
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by freshstart57
How about the other fallacy? Tu quoque? The one where the debater accuses his colleague of unrelated failings in an attempt to discredit his position? You good on that one too?
My "first hand experience" watching people pursue short-term goals is that it is an extremely unreliable way to stay sober. I have nothing but contempt for those who advise newcomers to practice barely marginal recovery. It is analogous to advising 16 year-olds to skip putting on seat-belts.
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
How about the other fallacy? Tu quoque?
I use it to point out that alcoholism is an "experience" that must be lived before it can be understood. Recovery is also an "experience" that must be actively practiced. Speculating about alcoholism and talking about recovery are not the same as living it. Not everyone who drank too much is an alcoholic and not everyone who stopped drinking is in recovery.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Posts: 1,202
For the sake of newcomers and or those getting back up again who have read this OP (600+ reads), AND who might wish to comment on the original topic / theme / idea:
Please, guys, I feel that such people would be put-off from entering the discussion by this regression / digression into what we in Aus call the equivalent of 'school boys p**sing up against a wall'. All this bad faith and ad hominem table-tennis is frankly, boring and so unconstructive.
And yeah, I did debating too, but to be honest, in early recovery (again for me), it's an effin' drag and only creates unnecessary angst. No wonder so few who might wish to constructively make their observations on the recovery app notion have kept silent. But I'm just a grumpy old woman, workin' on my recovery in old age, heh.
Please, guys, I feel that such people would be put-off from entering the discussion by this regression / digression into what we in Aus call the equivalent of 'school boys p**sing up against a wall'. All this bad faith and ad hominem table-tennis is frankly, boring and so unconstructive.
And yeah, I did debating too, but to be honest, in early recovery (again for me), it's an effin' drag and only creates unnecessary angst. No wonder so few who might wish to constructively make their observations on the recovery app notion have kept silent. But I'm just a grumpy old woman, workin' on my recovery in old age, heh.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
http://www.pacdaa.org/SiteCollection...am%20White.pdf
"This essay discussed 10 key questions critical to establishing
an operational definition of recovery and presented a
definition for consideration that attempted to meet six criteria:
(a) precision, (b) inclusiveness, (c) exclusiveness, (d) measurability,
(e) acceptability (to multiple constituents), and (f)
simplicity. It is hoped that this essay will stir needed discussion
and debate. Our progress in intervening with
individuals, families, and communities experiencing AOD
problems will depend to a great extent on the clarity of our
thinking and the clarity of our language."
"This essay discussed 10 key questions critical to establishing
an operational definition of recovery and presented a
definition for consideration that attempted to meet six criteria:
(a) precision, (b) inclusiveness, (c) exclusiveness, (d) measurability,
(e) acceptability (to multiple constituents), and (f)
simplicity. It is hoped that this essay will stir needed discussion
and debate. Our progress in intervening with
individuals, families, and communities experiencing AOD
problems will depend to a great extent on the clarity of our
thinking and the clarity of our language."
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 120,874
Originally Posted by SoberJennie
http://www.pacdaa.org/SiteCollection...am%20White.pdf
"This essay discussed 10 key questions critical to establishing
an operational definition of recovery and presented a
definition for consideration that attempted to meet six criteria:
(a) precision, (b) inclusiveness, (c) exclusiveness, (d) measurability,
(e) acceptability (to multiple constituents), and (f)
simplicity. It is hoped that this essay will stir needed discussion
and debate. Our progress in intervening with
individuals, families, and communities experiencing AOD
problems will depend to a great extent on the clarity of our
thinking and the clarity of our language."
"This essay discussed 10 key questions critical to establishing
an operational definition of recovery and presented a
definition for consideration that attempted to meet six criteria:
(a) precision, (b) inclusiveness, (c) exclusiveness, (d) measurability,
(e) acceptability (to multiple constituents), and (f)
simplicity. It is hoped that this essay will stir needed discussion
and debate. Our progress in intervening with
individuals, families, and communities experiencing AOD
problems will depend to a great extent on the clarity of our
thinking and the clarity of our language."
Thanks, SJ. I have bookmarked this for in-depth reading. It's probably going to take me a while to read and absorb (may be a little above my pay grade but I love a challenge).
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 120,874
Originally Posted by SoberJennie
SoberLeigh, I just skimmed it and it's nicely broken down into about ten sections. It's not too terribly long.
It looks really interesting and very informative. It appears to have a logical breakdown.
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
"...(AOD) problems arena is on the brink of shifting from longstanding
pathology and intervention paradigms to a solutionfocused
recovery paradigm."
Solution focused???
Now that got my attention.
"It is hoped that this essay will stir needed discussion
and debate."
I can see where that fits into this thread.
This PDF is a little tough to read on a tablet, but I will eventually read the whole thing.
pathology and intervention paradigms to a solutionfocused
recovery paradigm."
Solution focused???
Now that got my attention.
"It is hoped that this essay will stir needed discussion
and debate."
I can see where that fits into this thread.
This PDF is a little tough to read on a tablet, but I will eventually read the whole thing.
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