choices ...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
choices ...
Maybe there will be opinions as to the placement of this post, perhaps the discussion of advice/suggestions/vs inventories belongs in a dedicated 12 step forum, perhaps it belongs in the arguement clinic... ( No it doesn't! yes it does!) 
I appreciate feedback on the following..
Most of us balk at the idea of someone else deciding for us. (unless we are in the victim mode and the responsibility and accountability will be attached to the decider, and not us) I have always had a hard time with accepting responsibility for the outcomes of my decisions.. much more natural to fire up the blame thrower and procrastinate the changes necessary to grow. I've always hated it when people told me what to do. It's only been lately that I've accepted that I'm human and may require instruction from someone more experienced than I. I'm becoming better at "watch and learn" technique.
I tend to be more susceptible to suggestions and even more prone to try a suggestion when I'm completly out of ideas, especially when the suggester seems to show evidence of positive results.
Sometimes the best advice/suggestions I get come masked as a question if I can be openminded to examining my answers to the questions.
I find it funny and sad at the same time that when you ask someone a question which may help them find an answer for themselves, they sometimes reply as if you accused them of something. I guess that is our reaction when we don't pause to do the inventory steps for ourselves.. then we feel as though our inventory is being taken for us. Most of these questions really don't require that I answer the asker, only that I answer them for myself.
Sometimes the best advice I get comes in question that requires taking a long hard look at myself and asking the God of my understanding to let me see me through His eyes.
lets hear your experiences with the learning process.
I appreciate feedback on the following..
Most of us balk at the idea of someone else deciding for us. (unless we are in the victim mode and the responsibility and accountability will be attached to the decider, and not us) I have always had a hard time with accepting responsibility for the outcomes of my decisions.. much more natural to fire up the blame thrower and procrastinate the changes necessary to grow. I've always hated it when people told me what to do. It's only been lately that I've accepted that I'm human and may require instruction from someone more experienced than I. I'm becoming better at "watch and learn" technique.
I tend to be more susceptible to suggestions and even more prone to try a suggestion when I'm completly out of ideas, especially when the suggester seems to show evidence of positive results.
Sometimes the best advice/suggestions I get come masked as a question if I can be openminded to examining my answers to the questions.
I find it funny and sad at the same time that when you ask someone a question which may help them find an answer for themselves, they sometimes reply as if you accused them of something. I guess that is our reaction when we don't pause to do the inventory steps for ourselves.. then we feel as though our inventory is being taken for us. Most of these questions really don't require that I answer the asker, only that I answer them for myself.
Sometimes the best advice I get comes in question that requires taking a long hard look at myself and asking the God of my understanding to let me see me through His eyes.
lets hear your experiences with the learning process.
Last edited by Gooch; 07-09-2004 at 07:12 AM.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
After reading and putting thoughts to your words, I end up with more questions for self. Areas that maybe I need fine tune.
As a codie and wanting to help or even just being a man and having the natural desire of wanting to fix things.... I would give answers when it may be better to follow what you have asked about. By asking a question and having the person find a answer... the person is learning for self. I could run around giving answers all day but what if I am not there to ask the question of? The person in need of a answer would be left without.
Some times I find that people will ask a question wanting a answer they already have in their own thoughts. A wanting to be told they are right. Some times the answers we need are not the answers we want or are willing to accept. I would think the best we can do is share what we know works and it would be up to those seeking answers to accept what they are told or try to find a answer that they feel would be better.
Where 1 plus 1 equals 2 and a person is looking for a answer of 3... well all I can do is tell them how the way I find the answer gives a result for me. It still comes down to the individual accepting for themself.
As stubborn as I can be, I would walk over the mountain cause I know that will get me to the other side. You tell me about the flat tunnel that goes through the mountain... if I can't see the opening and I am in a stubborn mood, I would walk over the mountain just to prove I could.
hey Gooch when you go through the tunnel and reach the other side ahead of me... be sure to have the coffee on ...ok? *LOL*
bottle feed or solid foods? Till we try solids we may always want the easy bottle fed where someone else does for us. No growth in that.
As a codie and wanting to help or even just being a man and having the natural desire of wanting to fix things.... I would give answers when it may be better to follow what you have asked about. By asking a question and having the person find a answer... the person is learning for self. I could run around giving answers all day but what if I am not there to ask the question of? The person in need of a answer would be left without.
Some times I find that people will ask a question wanting a answer they already have in their own thoughts. A wanting to be told they are right. Some times the answers we need are not the answers we want or are willing to accept. I would think the best we can do is share what we know works and it would be up to those seeking answers to accept what they are told or try to find a answer that they feel would be better.
Where 1 plus 1 equals 2 and a person is looking for a answer of 3... well all I can do is tell them how the way I find the answer gives a result for me. It still comes down to the individual accepting for themself.
As stubborn as I can be, I would walk over the mountain cause I know that will get me to the other side. You tell me about the flat tunnel that goes through the mountain... if I can't see the opening and I am in a stubborn mood, I would walk over the mountain just to prove I could.
hey Gooch when you go through the tunnel and reach the other side ahead of me... be sure to have the coffee on ...ok? *LOL*
bottle feed or solid foods? Till we try solids we may always want the easy bottle fed where someone else does for us. No growth in that.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: S.E. Mich.
Posts: 1,433
One of the things I work on is being open minded. Open to the fact that I don't know everything, I don't need to know everything, and somewhere, somehow, somebody might be able to help. If I ask.
Something that still grabs my attention, is when I have a problem, and I ask the HP for help quietly, and I try to stay out of my own way, that answer(s) come unexpectedly in some general discussion somewhere else.
Like reading through different threads on a forum. Or at a meeting. Or in a general conversation with somebody close.
Most often I can find the cause of the problem by simply looking in a mirror, so I learn to try to stay out of the way.
I don't have to attend the "school of hard knocks" anymore, (never learned from there anyway), but sometimes I still need to ask, and the answers will come, however they come.
I have learned that learning can be easy. If I let it.
And Gooch, being this is General Recovery, it seems to me any recovery issue can be discussed here, and I really like your avatar.
Something that still grabs my attention, is when I have a problem, and I ask the HP for help quietly, and I try to stay out of my own way, that answer(s) come unexpectedly in some general discussion somewhere else.
Like reading through different threads on a forum. Or at a meeting. Or in a general conversation with somebody close.
Most often I can find the cause of the problem by simply looking in a mirror, so I learn to try to stay out of the way.
I don't have to attend the "school of hard knocks" anymore, (never learned from there anyway), but sometimes I still need to ask, and the answers will come, however they come.
I have learned that learning can be easy. If I let it.
And Gooch, being this is General Recovery, it seems to me any recovery issue can be discussed here, and I really like your avatar.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Wow, good thread here making me think.
I get my best answers and inspiration two ways, one is by listening with an open mind and a closed mouth and often one tiny little thing that I hear is exactly what I need. My mind can tend to race ahead when I am listening, and I don't "hear" what I need to hear. So holding myself back and paying attention is helpful.
The other way is by listening to what I really don't want to hear, and then asking myself "Why?", why does this rattle me? Because when MY way isn't working, the answer is usually another way, and choosing to change can be tough, but choosing to change is often exactly what I need to do.
When I really listen, without getting defensive, and with a willing heart, I learn more and learn better what is right for me.
And when I am not sure, I let my HP guide me, take time to wait and always the answer comes.
Hugs
Ann
I get my best answers and inspiration two ways, one is by listening with an open mind and a closed mouth and often one tiny little thing that I hear is exactly what I need. My mind can tend to race ahead when I am listening, and I don't "hear" what I need to hear. So holding myself back and paying attention is helpful.
The other way is by listening to what I really don't want to hear, and then asking myself "Why?", why does this rattle me? Because when MY way isn't working, the answer is usually another way, and choosing to change can be tough, but choosing to change is often exactly what I need to do.
When I really listen, without getting defensive, and with a willing heart, I learn more and learn better what is right for me.
And when I am not sure, I let my HP guide me, take time to wait and always the answer comes.
Hugs
Ann
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,955
I do my best learning when I shut the committee down.
I can't learn anything with them bantering back and forth in my head.
Once they have been silenced, it is easier for me to listen and learn.
Hard questions usually set me on a path of introspection.
And like Ann, examining what rattles me and why is a good way to discover new things about myself.
I've found that surrounding myself with people I value and respect has given me my best opportunity for learning and growth ever.
Thanks Gooch, great thread.
I can't learn anything with them bantering back and forth in my head.
Once they have been silenced, it is easier for me to listen and learn.
Hard questions usually set me on a path of introspection.
And like Ann, examining what rattles me and why is a good way to discover new things about myself.
I've found that surrounding myself with people I value and respect has given me my best opportunity for learning and growth ever.
Thanks Gooch, great thread.
Still hangin` on...
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 337
Great question Gooch!!!!!
HMMMMMM.... I used the ****** commity before to answer all those perplexing questions...... And we all know were that got me!!!!!! lol
Now I just try to really think long and hard about how my decisions are going to effect the people that I care about. But I do know that I have to do what is right for me.
HMMMMMM.... I used the ****** commity before to answer all those perplexing questions...... And we all know were that got me!!!!!! lol
Now I just try to really think long and hard about how my decisions are going to effect the people that I care about. But I do know that I have to do what is right for me.
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Gooch,
First this is a powerful thread!
The learning process for me ebbs and flows. I am currently flowing even after over 10 years in recovery. That onion is real!
I hear whispers...or as Ann said...something has me rattled. That is when my attention seems to be focused in the area that I need to work on. It's like buying a red truck...all you see on the road is red trucks.
If I don't listen to the whisper I get more and more uneasy. I guess I have learned that if I am uneasy about something to pay attention. That only comes through experience.
Then as Doug said...the answers are all around me. Or I ask. I am a poor judge of my own reality or I would not be here. I have to hold it up to the steps and the fellowship. This has been working for me pretty consistently for a few years.
On the subject of advice in the form of a question I have to say it depends on the person asking the question 100% of the time. If I feel insecure with that person I am going to react differently than if the person knows me well and I trust they have my best interest in mind.
Also my own intuition is growing in importance in my decision making, as I have grown to trust it. It began by simply taking note...but too many times what I "felt" came to fruition. Often my intuition is the "whisper" that gets me moving.
Hugs,
JT
First this is a powerful thread!
The learning process for me ebbs and flows. I am currently flowing even after over 10 years in recovery. That onion is real!
I hear whispers...or as Ann said...something has me rattled. That is when my attention seems to be focused in the area that I need to work on. It's like buying a red truck...all you see on the road is red trucks.
If I don't listen to the whisper I get more and more uneasy. I guess I have learned that if I am uneasy about something to pay attention. That only comes through experience.
Then as Doug said...the answers are all around me. Or I ask. I am a poor judge of my own reality or I would not be here. I have to hold it up to the steps and the fellowship. This has been working for me pretty consistently for a few years.
On the subject of advice in the form of a question I have to say it depends on the person asking the question 100% of the time. If I feel insecure with that person I am going to react differently than if the person knows me well and I trust they have my best interest in mind.
Also my own intuition is growing in importance in my decision making, as I have grown to trust it. It began by simply taking note...but too many times what I "felt" came to fruition. Often my intuition is the "whisper" that gets me moving.
Hugs,
JT
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Gooch writes... I know that for me, I resisted any outside influence for far too long. And to a certain degree, even firmly established in recovery mode, there are still days when I balk at accepting notions that are not mine, even as I see the positive benefit they may have in my life.
I have to remember where I ended up left to my own thinking.
Every day.
I tend to be more susceptible to suggestions and even more prone to try a suggestion when I'm completly out of ideas, especially when the suggester seems to show evidence of positive results.
I have to remember where I ended up left to my own thinking.
Every day.
Gold Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: It's raining again!
Posts: 2,494
Great thread! I know for me that I'll never stop asking questions for just about everything under the sun. I too don't trust my own judgement at times and have to have someone eles lead the way for me weather it be an AA person,a thripist or even (yes) my husband. Sometimes even my kids guide me. Today I feel stong in some of my convictions and I come off storng in just about everything. It's just one of those days of being humble in the power of my so called streghth. Perhaps tommorrow I'll be humble in a different way and be quiet and listion. It's all sort of like a give and take type thing. I have in my life sat back and watched and tried not to repete the same mistakes others have made,but there our times when I need to get behind my ears wet in order to apprciate the full meaning of the lession.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: hanover,PA
Posts: 15
wow ,i just saw what you wrote in july(choices) .i m new here but that is really cool. sometimes its like you read something , you no you no it but you not able to put it together like that .does that make any sense? this is only 2nd saved post ive red i hope i can relat as well to the rest .
thanks
paul
thanks
paul
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
I think when someone asks a question genuinely (e.g. they want to hear your answer rather than to have you realise there answer) then it can be a really productive way to get me to think. I suppose if they then ignore (no - I don't mean you have Gooch!) what you reply to the question they asked, or started calling it denial, or in any other way seek to impose their own answer over the person's they asked it can be frustrating.
I like asking lots of questions, it helps me to think when I ask them and the answers help me get to know better what bothering someone. Or if I'm starting a thread 'cos I want answers, I might ask more questions to get more info - it's when I do the latter I think sometimes it's misread as disagreement.
Whatever happens in real life and here people will always misunderstand sometimes or get the wrong end of the stick. I don't think arguments can be avoided completely - just very much reduced. When people have got upset and angry I think it gets harder for them to stay reasonable (ehem,,,,, at least I find it harder), so I try and remember that when I see someone else be unreasonable - I try to remember they are probably angry or upset.
I reckon what matters is being able to resolve arguments and to be able to stay treating each other with respect through them.
I might have misunderstood the thread but it seemed around emotional responses to things we or other people say?
I like asking lots of questions, it helps me to think when I ask them and the answers help me get to know better what bothering someone. Or if I'm starting a thread 'cos I want answers, I might ask more questions to get more info - it's when I do the latter I think sometimes it's misread as disagreement.
Whatever happens in real life and here people will always misunderstand sometimes or get the wrong end of the stick. I don't think arguments can be avoided completely - just very much reduced. When people have got upset and angry I think it gets harder for them to stay reasonable (ehem,,,,, at least I find it harder), so I try and remember that when I see someone else be unreasonable - I try to remember they are probably angry or upset.
I reckon what matters is being able to resolve arguments and to be able to stay treating each other with respect through them.
I might have misunderstood the thread but it seemed around emotional responses to things we or other people say?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: hanover,PA
Posts: 15
equus, i reread goochs post(7-9-04) ,i was commenting on what i got out of the post ,
are you commenting on my post or his post? cause i dont even know what your tryin to say. please dont confuse me any more than i already am. thanks.... (i think) Paul
are you commenting on my post or his post? cause i dont even know what your tryin to say. please dont confuse me any more than i already am. thanks.... (i think) Paul
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
I was talking about something I thought was in Gooch's post about taking directions and misunderstanding being asked questions - it doesn't really relate to any one person, just what I thought about the subject.
Sorry to have confused....
Sorry to have confused....
But Very, Very Bruisable...
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palm Springs, Ca.
Posts: 548
It very rarely happens that a post from a year ago pops back up....and most, if not all, of the participants are still here.
Must be some power in this one gooch-and I know that right here, right now I NEED to know that not only do I have choices, not choosing is a choice too.
(Well-made sense to me...I think.)
Must be some power in this one gooch-and I know that right here, right now I NEED to know that not only do I have choices, not choosing is a choice too.
(Well-made sense to me...I think.)
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In the mountain air
Posts: 1,345
choices...
That's a good one for me to hear about today. I've been feeling like there aren't any, at least, not right now. It's good to be reminded that not making a choice is still a choice...that I can sit back and choose to let my HP have it...and that it doesn't make me useless to turn it over.
That's a good one for me to hear about today. I've been feeling like there aren't any, at least, not right now. It's good to be reminded that not making a choice is still a choice...that I can sit back and choose to let my HP have it...and that it doesn't make me useless to turn it over.
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