Boleo

This sounds more like a "Treatment Centered 12 step program" than the program taught by the Big Book and sponsorship.

It does have a kernel of truth to it and might sound like what goes on at some non-literature meetings, but those of use who actually work the program know better.

sfgirl

Pboy—

A good book about all different methods people (I think she interviewed around 300) use to get sober including AA but also other mutual-aid groups and people who did it on their own is:

Sober for Good by Anne Fletcher

author on NPR's Talk of the Nation:
Talk of the Nation : NPR

Sober for Good: New Solutions for ... - Google Books

larrylive

personally I think some descisions have to be made, are you an addict, an alcoholic or God forbid, both. I think comeing to terms with the diseases is very important. I also believe there is a big difference between abusers and addicts ( and although I do not concede that a drug is a drug, I do use the term addict inclusive for alcoholics, much to their dismay) IMHO many of the rooms are populated with ex-abusers, who due to the troubles that may arise with excessive use found themselves in good company. Unfortunately, as recognized in the "treatment center 12 step program" comment some are not willing to do the work, and in such lead an example of the lazy way out, which unfortunately does not work for those of us that have truely dug ourselves into a really deep hole. I cite the example of the ever popular "just don't pick up". And well if that were possible for this addict I wouldn't be squating on a borrowed couch, alone on thanksgiving, trying to share insite and hope with a bunch of people I can't even be sure exsist.
And as usual I digress, so back on topic. There are many approaches to sobreity, but as far as I have seen only one focuses heavily on recovery. As to which may work for any one individual only he/she can know for sure, although some helpful insite may be had with the giudance of a trained professional. Be careful with that though, as it seems many people are capitalizing on our misfortune.
So I would say examine your usage, your drug of choice and your personality and then look into the different methods and try to find other successful ex-addicts (good luck with that) and then apply your self as if there is no tomarrow, because there won't be or at least they will all be like today.

Regards,
Larrylive

littlefish

Vinepest wrote:
No, not at all. And I wonder if here again we have a person defining all that is wrong with AA without ever having gone to a single meeting. AA encourages us to dwell at length about who we are as people, and considers that alcohol is the bandage we are applying to deeper issues we have as individuals. The steps challenge me to consider who I am as a person and do something about it. Am I wrapped up in self-pity, and self-will? My challenge is to do something about it.


Again you are showing that you really don't know about the steps. The steps are all about taking personal responsibility. "Leaving ugly business behind" is the easy way out. Step 4 forces us to take an inventory of all the ugly business because as alcoholics we did some mildly bad things or terribly bad things. How helpful is it for us as individuals striving to be better people to sweep everything under the rug?

If that were the case, we wouldn't have a nation, (the US) spending billions on drug rehab and alcohol recovery. We wouldn't have millions of people losing their health, their marriages, homes, property and their lives to addiction. You are pushing the will power line of thinking. Well, good luck. It hasn't been very successful in treating addiction.

Taking5

Littlefish nailed it. Steps 4 thru 10 are 100% about personal responsibility. No where in the steps or Big Book does it supply anything remotely close to the "tools to deny personal responsibility". In fact the BB promises us if we don't do the personal inventory, amends, etc., we will likely get drunk again.

Bamboozle

OH my goodness...how in hades did this thread get so completely off the rails? Why does an 'alternative/other options to AA' thread always end up focusing on AA? Isn't that...uh...missing the point?

Hey, Pboy. There are people who just stop. There are those who stop and use some kind of help. I do therapy, SR, and a lot of thinking. I fill up my time with life. I do what I want to do and stay sober.

I couldn't do it all on my own...it's the same as with everything else in life for me. I need other people in some way....and what I do is working for me.

littlefish

ooops. Probably my bad. I don't usually push AA here. I accept other forms of recovery. I guess I just went after someone's misconceptions of AA and wanted to clarify a couple of things.
How is P-boy doing, BTW?

yeahgr8

Lilya

I think several methods work.

I am one of those addicts who stopped using Cocaine and other similar drugs after heavy drug taking. I did it cold turkey and it took months to do it and lots of will power. I wasn´t in AA and used alcohol and valium as a substitute, because in all my life I´ve never done anything so hard.

Then with the help of AA, I stopped drinking and taking drugs like valium.

I´m definately an addict and have to live with my addiction, which can take many forms. One of the form is overspending. It´s an addiction who demands my life long respect, because when I find myself in a really bad situation, I want to go out, buy street drug and have my fix.... and it can take a long time for that craving to pass.

Luckily I don´t feel it on a daily basis any more, but to quit Cokaine took a long time and the side effects were so heavy, I thought I would die.

AA offers me good tools for dealing with this. I also use therapy, yoga and Rational Recovery.

There is a lot of it out there, both AA and non-AA, so I would say look it up on goggle and check it out. Therapy can also be great.

One thing I do know: If I wouldn´t have wanted to stop taking dope, I would not have done it. No matter what my friends and family said. It took something deep down inside me to want desperately to stop it.

I don´t know if it was Higher Power or just some plain common sense who made me stop. I was ready, so I stopped. But I had to substitute my addiction with something positive, like starting a career, having a family and living a healthy life. I´m still pretty screwed up, so I have plenty to work on.

Bamboozle

I wasn't meaning any specific person...just a general comment. You're good. It started getting off track in the beginning with someone criticizing AA. People stepped in to defend. It happens.

I wonder how Pboy's doing, too.

Ago

A good thing to do is actually check, are you happy? does what you do work? How long have you been sober?

There is quite a tendency among addicts and alcoholics to give both give advice and to knock other folks methods. I can walk into any barroom in the world and ask any question about anything, and the folks there won't stutter, they won't stammer, I will learn everything I ever wanted to learn about that particular subject, of course it will all based on hearsay and ********, but that's what we do best, is talk.

A few months ago we had 4-5 guys pop in, all generally speaking still picklefaced on a nightly basis with a new great sure fire way to quit drinking, a cure even, to drink moderately or stop altogether.

Of course it hadn't worked with any of them yet, but they knew a guy who knew a guy and cited cases and studies up the wazoo.

There are a few people here who are sober, happy, joyous and free, that work good programs that aren't AA, I would seek them out and ask them specifically, anyone else will just give you opinions, and I can go to any bar and get plenty of those, with about the same merit, I might add.

joedris

Vinepest, what you're doing in commenting on AA is called condemnation without investigation. I suggest that if you know little about a subject, then refrain from commenting on it.

vinepest

But I do know some. I am just not an expert, as I have consistently made clear. Surely you are not suggesting that only experts ought to comment on AA...?

Anyway, I sometimes find it helpful to bounce around unrefined ideas. If you disagree with something I have said, then feel free to pose a counter-argument. If you convince me, I will be grateful for the correction, and if you do not, then I will become more confident in my initial judgment. Either way, I will be happy to have the feedback.

basIam

Saying AA is about dwelling on how bad it was, for one.
AA is about not taking personal responsibility is another.

Neither could be further from the truth.

All I know is AA gave me a wonderful life and helped me see that I was the source of all my discontent.

If I ever talk about how bad it was it is only to demonstrate to the newcomer that I was as bad as they were, if not worse. But to look at me you wouldn't believe it. So that's why we share our story- to help break throught the wall of denial.

Dee74

Seeing as the original poster asked about alternatives to AA, and this thread can't keep off the topic of AA, I think it's time to draw this peacefully to a close.

Anyone who wants to continue this AA not AA discussion is free to do so via PM.

D