biminiblue

Want is more a mindfulness/Buddhist slant it seems like. It's one of the ODAAT tactics. It works for now. Now is all we have. Yadda yadda.

Will never is a decision that encompasses now and the future.

dwtbd

Referring to Zero's post.
Continuing to 'decide' to 'stick' to a BP more than implies the opposite of what a BP is.

AlericB

I agree but where have I ever said that? You quote the word 'stick' but where has it actually been used?

I wonder what sort of impression we are giving to newcomers about AVRT.

Bowing out of this thread.

Greenwood618

Before you do, why do you whine about some aspect of AVRT almost every day?

dwtbd

Tatsy (trying to be a nonmuddler )

I would say the Beast 'feels' none of the things you mentioned. Only You have those feelings , the Beast uses the feelings via the AV to suggest a solution/remedy.
The Beast's feelings are binary either the desire is indulged or isn't.

Experiencing any and all range of feelings is human nature. The Beast's nature is a drive for more booze , nothing else. Even the feelings of missing, romanticizing booze are yours, the idea that making those feelings feel 'better' by consuming more booze is AV, yeah ?

I miss the taste and feel of a good two fingers of bourbon, doesn't mean I will ever drink it again.

Fusion

From where I’ve sat reading here since February 2016, Aleric has engaged with and proved to be a positive, supportive, intelligent, insightful and valuable member of SR Secular Connections, to include his posts regarding addiction, and RR/AVRT.

dwtbd

AlericB
I didn't mean for those words to quoted, just highlighted. And my statement was about the idea that staying sober by continuously deciding not to drink is not what a Big Plan is .
A BP isn't that complicated, it is a one time decision , a pledge , a solemn commitment one makes to/with one's self.
AVRT doesn't hold the patent so to speak on AV , people who are in recovery have an AV and are from most appearances well aware of that fact.
The difference between using AVRT , after making a BP and being in recovery is that a final decision regarding alcohol consumption has yet to be made , the battle with the AV will continue and usually with the generally accepted view that failure if not inevitable is somewhat expected.
With a BP and using AVRT , there is no battle, if losing said battle equates to succumbing to some irresistible force beyond one's immediate control, because the option for losing, future consumption, has been removed.

Pre-BP and post BP are different paradigms and those who think they understand what AVRT is about seem to be believe pre and post are actually the same, mostly I believe because they can't quite shake out all the colective/cultural AV we have all been subject to.

Sohard

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see this as the way Aleric does (I think!). Although I struggle, I'm newly sober so I'll cut myself some slack. But, the ONLY reason I am 38 days sober is bc I can say to myself "I don't want to drink, but my beast does". This split (to me) is the beauty of AVRT and would be (and is) approved by JT's book The New Cure and his website. Now, because "I don't want to drink, but my beast does",
"I don't drink and I will never change my mind". Loop closed.

Wholesome

I was trying to explain AVRT to my son's counselor yesterday, she was going on about how much work quitting takes, and I told her, no, it doesn't. Quitting is as easy as simply never doing it again, that it's all in the mind. The hard part is making the decision.

No one can control all of their thoughts, even at nearly a year I still have drinking thoughts, sometimes quite powerful thoughts, but I've learned not to fear them or fight them, I just never act on them. I don't think having the thoughts means I'm still ambivalent about my decision to quit though. To me, the ambivalence was when I was actively drinking and too afraid to quit, too afraid of the unknown, and still too attached to drinking.