AddictGuy

Yeah, and at first I was just humiliated for getting off topic. Once I shut up it got fun. And then it was like we were all learning stuff. I do thank some of you for taking the heat off of me.

AddictGuy

I just really love mindfulness. I have read some about it, staying in the here and now and such. Someone was saying that doing a wrong thing, like wanting to use is nothing more than trying to be somewhere other than in the present.

People run from the word meditation, it being some weird Eastern thing, that, worst case, might even let in the devil but ain't mindfulness a sanitized word for the same thing? Here and now, babies. One thought at a time to accept or reject. We being our own, cognizant gatekeepers of what is going on between our ears.

BTW Pouncer was asking about alternatives to AVRT and so sticking strictly to a discussion within the framework of one method was not really "on topic" either, was it? Me? I am more of the school of thought, like someone was saying, there is no wrong way of being clean or sober. You might call me non-denominational.

But I do thank GT for taking me aside and talking to me about the caffeine thing because, on topic, off topic or whatever, that is my biggest dragon these days, having held the other baddies at bay for years now. And, much to my relief, Pouncer even thanked me for them, so I am relieved that I wasn't taxing everyone.

Moving along, the thought of "emotional elbow room" sounds just so refreshing, as well as the concept of using the acceptance of the AV as a powerful sobriety (read un-using) tool. It reminds me of some of the martial arts where you use what the other guy is trying to use against you against him. Like that.

God, freshstart, that stuff just sounds great.

And I was thinking, why read these books when you guys can come in here and summarize in a couple of sentences all of the books you are reading and so I can learn from so many more angles in the same "reading" time. I know, a bit of a joke, but still . . .

Thank you all. We all just want to not let the beast, or the dragon, or the devil, or addiction or the AV or whatever we all care to call "it" win. We just want to learn to be the winners, whatever other flags we salute or whatever tribes we belong to.

Again, I thank you all.

AG

AddictGuy

And hey, congrats, Pouncer.

eternalLiberty

Hi Pounces, i am exacly in the same place as you, tried AVRT for some years, then gave up, returned again, gave up, and i am here again, trust me, AVRT is for me the most logical thing, if we arent quitting its not because of AVRT it because of us. I failed today again on trying aproaches other than AVRT, and they failed. It doesn mean its the same for you, but for me is. A very subtle way BEAST uses is "being fixated in the voice", i guess this is called "white knuckling". In reading the forums today i catched a very nice insight about this "fixated voice" phenomen, posted by Teminal UNIQUE:
To me, "whiteknuckling" it is a description of allowing your Addictive Voice to engage you in a struggle. When you allow yourself to be so engaged, you are

empowering the AV to affect your behavior. Continuing such a struggle only tires you, and your AV has time.

Instead of struggling, just let go. Don't argue any more. Let the AV/Beast have their conversations without you. It really is only "noise" and need not be

paid attention to. After awhile, the noise is not so loud any more, and may even seem to disappear for periods of time.

I hope it help you to deal with this subtle ilusion of the beast. By the way, i am soon to make my BP again and return to AVRT training, and this forums are the best way to start.