Secular sobriety questions...
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
FWIW our views aren't ALL that different
I use "The Great Reality" because that is the dictionary definition of "God", not because it's great, sometimes reality can kiss my @ss.
Reality suffices
I surf, I surf large waves, I mean huge waves, and sometimes clean up sets come in, and they are going to take you from point A to point B regardless of what you do, I can either surf the wave or get dragged kicking and screaming, and maybe die, that wave is reality, and the events in my life are that wave, "God's will" as it were is I am going from point A to Point B, I can either do so kicking and screaming, or I can learn to surf, and quite possibly even change the outcome that way sometimes, which I can't do if I am struggling and kicking against the pr1ck as Shakespeare put it.
"God's will" is what is happening that I can't change, because...ummm...there it is, there is simply no arguing about it.
sh1t rolls downhill and if I am below it I am going to get a mouthful pretty much sums it up for me, there are "laws" there is no disputing, such as gravity, some of them happen on a fairly amorphous level, so for lack of a better word I call those "spiritual laws", the thing about using AA is it was written on a spiritual basis, what I did was go through and get the nuts and bolts out, there is no magic and fairies in what I do, although I do have to say sh1t happens that can only be described as miraculous when used properly, in order to pass on what I learned frequently the only language I know to use is "spiritual" because I know of no other way to describe it.
The steps to me are a mathematical equation, and each step has conditions and promises, such as if you do this like this you get this, my experience is they work, when I do this like this I get this, period. I don't even worry about the "prayer" and meditation, as they both have provable medical and psychological benefits, I am longer on meditation then I am on prayer though, and I don't pray to a deity, it's more like an interior dialogue similar to matthew broderick in Ladyhawke
The truth is I don't really think about it or question it any more, I came up with my concept of the G word, worked the steps, and when my insides straightened out, so did my outsides, both as a reaction to my insides straightening out but in strange inexplicable ways as well. Ways I don't even doubt any more, because I have seen it over and over and over and over.
I use "The Great Reality" because that is the dictionary definition of "God", not because it's great, sometimes reality can kiss my @ss.
Reality suffices
I surf, I surf large waves, I mean huge waves, and sometimes clean up sets come in, and they are going to take you from point A to point B regardless of what you do, I can either surf the wave or get dragged kicking and screaming, and maybe die, that wave is reality, and the events in my life are that wave, "God's will" as it were is I am going from point A to Point B, I can either do so kicking and screaming, or I can learn to surf, and quite possibly even change the outcome that way sometimes, which I can't do if I am struggling and kicking against the pr1ck as Shakespeare put it.
"God's will" is what is happening that I can't change, because...ummm...there it is, there is simply no arguing about it.
sh1t rolls downhill and if I am below it I am going to get a mouthful pretty much sums it up for me, there are "laws" there is no disputing, such as gravity, some of them happen on a fairly amorphous level, so for lack of a better word I call those "spiritual laws", the thing about using AA is it was written on a spiritual basis, what I did was go through and get the nuts and bolts out, there is no magic and fairies in what I do, although I do have to say sh1t happens that can only be described as miraculous when used properly, in order to pass on what I learned frequently the only language I know to use is "spiritual" because I know of no other way to describe it.
The steps to me are a mathematical equation, and each step has conditions and promises, such as if you do this like this you get this, my experience is they work, when I do this like this I get this, period. I don't even worry about the "prayer" and meditation, as they both have provable medical and psychological benefits, I am longer on meditation then I am on prayer though, and I don't pray to a deity, it's more like an interior dialogue similar to matthew broderick in Ladyhawke
The truth is I don't really think about it or question it any more, I came up with my concept of the G word, worked the steps, and when my insides straightened out, so did my outsides, both as a reaction to my insides straightening out but in strange inexplicable ways as well. Ways I don't even doubt any more, because I have seen it over and over and over and over.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dumas Texas
Posts: 35
WOw, what a wonderful group of ideas and opinions. I can see great points inall. Whatever happen to the book? How can anyone read the first 165 pages of the Big Book , the original 12 step program and not grasp the idea that self-importance and self suffienceny is our very problem. Of course, the next thought is, " A God of your understanding", this is the key. AA would not dictate what God you chose but the need to chose one is not debatable either. NA decided a few years ago(5th Edition) to put an atheist story in their personal story section. I was amazed at the controversy it causes.
It did not offend me but the controversy it caused set 1000s back years in recovery.
Remember we are a group of people who are selfish and self centered. We believe our way is the right way yet it leads only to destruction. When we deviate from the BOOK we depend on our flawed ideas and opinions. NA has suggested taking out all reference to God from their book but has never done it......why? A dear friend once told me " all I have is my experience , strength and hope, everything else is just ego! " My experience is just that mentioned in the Big Book, "any life ran on self-will is hardly worth living' and any life without a God is one of self-will. IMHHO, since we are stating opinions here.
It did not offend me but the controversy it caused set 1000s back years in recovery.
Remember we are a group of people who are selfish and self centered. We believe our way is the right way yet it leads only to destruction. When we deviate from the BOOK we depend on our flawed ideas and opinions. NA has suggested taking out all reference to God from their book but has never done it......why? A dear friend once told me " all I have is my experience , strength and hope, everything else is just ego! " My experience is just that mentioned in the Big Book, "any life ran on self-will is hardly worth living' and any life without a God is one of self-will. IMHHO, since we are stating opinions here.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
Originally Posted by GotItFirstTime 
Whatever happen to the book? How can anyone read the first 165 pages of the Big Book , the original 12 step program and not grasp the idea that self-importance and self suffienceny is our very problem. Of course, the next thought is, " A God of your understanding", this is the key. AA would not dictate what God you chose but the need to chose one is not debatable either.
Can you site specifically where it says one needs to choose a God in order to stay sober?
It does say: God could and would if He were sought.
If He were SOUGHT.
Not found. Not chosen. Not needed.
Sought.
And isn't that what everyone in this thread is doing in their own way?
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