Care to share? Step 2 for "we agnostics"
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Care to share? Step 2 for "we agnostics"
A lot of people - maybe a majority even - are agnostic when they come into AA, Somehow we've got to overcome that first big hurdle, "came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity".
My experience is that I was convinced that I was going to die drinking, that I couldn't stop no matter what I did, and that I had reached a point of hopelessness. I met other people in AA who had got sober, and their stories were sometimes even worse than mine. So I became open to the idea that there might be a solution, but I didn't know what it was. This was a big deal for me. Previous to this, only solutions I agreed with or understood were what I was looking for. So I came to believe that I could get sober - and sane - again. But more importantly I became open to doing things in ways other than my own. The change that was wrought in step 2 was not in the nature of G*d, or my conception of him or beliefs about him - it was an opening and a shifting of myself to accepting that I did not have all the answers, and that there was a "way of sanity" which other had tapped into, and I could too.
My experience is that I was convinced that I was going to die drinking, that I couldn't stop no matter what I did, and that I had reached a point of hopelessness. I met other people in AA who had got sober, and their stories were sometimes even worse than mine. So I became open to the idea that there might be a solution, but I didn't know what it was. This was a big deal for me. Previous to this, only solutions I agreed with or understood were what I was looking for. So I came to believe that I could get sober - and sane - again. But more importantly I became open to doing things in ways other than my own. The change that was wrought in step 2 was not in the nature of G*d, or my conception of him or beliefs about him - it was an opening and a shifting of myself to accepting that I did not have all the answers, and that there was a "way of sanity" which other had tapped into, and I could too.
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Well, did a lot of soul searching and thinking (danger, danger) and I realized my higher power should boil down to that one quintessential element which is the core of my sobriety and of my being. It came to me, Mindfullness. My life has been larfely lived regreting the past, fearing the future and acting without real examination of consequences. "I am so I do."
Mindfulness is not just a word or a discourse by the Buddha, but a meaningful state of mind. It means we have to be here now, in this very moment, and we have to know what is happening internally and externally. It means being alert to our motives and learning to change unwholesome thoughts and emotions into wholesome ones. Mindfulness is a mental activity that in due course eliminates all suffering.-- Ayya Khema, 'Be an Island'
Namaste
Mindfulness is not just a word or a discourse by the Buddha, but a meaningful state of mind. It means we have to be here now, in this very moment, and we have to know what is happening internally and externally. It means being alert to our motives and learning to change unwholesome thoughts and emotions into wholesome ones. Mindfulness is a mental activity that in due course eliminates all suffering.-- Ayya Khema, 'Be an Island'
Namaste
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Originally Posted by paulmh
....met other people in AA who had got sober....
....became open to the idea that there might be a solution....
....became open to doing things in ways other than my own....
....it was an opening and a shifting of myself to accepting that I did not have all the answers, and that there was a "way of sanity" which other had tapped into, and I could too.....
....became open to the idea that there might be a solution....
....became open to doing things in ways other than my own....
....it was an opening and a shifting of myself to accepting that I did not have all the answers, and that there was a "way of sanity" which other had tapped into, and I could too.....
Originally Posted by MycoolFitz
I realized my higher power should boil down to that one quintessential element which is the core of my sobriety and of my being. It came to me, Mindfullness.
This is so good for me to read right now! I totally identify with Paul's description and MycoolFitz's post is almost a "god shot" (lol).
Mindfulness has helped me more than anything ever has. For me, doing step 10 and 11 IS mindfulness (plus inventory).
Basically, I am stealing both of your posts and using them for myself!
Thanks, both of you.
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
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The important bit in the step for me was 'came to believe'. In coming to believe something requires more than just sitting down and trying to work it out, it takes time. Like anything we learn more by experience, than anything else and with it comes the wisdom behind the steps. For me the coming to believe happened through experiencing the insanity, the only thing that got me on the straight and narrow was attending meetings.
For me, that power in the initial stages was the group itself, i certainly couldn't identify with a concept of God as an entity and have trouble with that concept now. Atheists in AA said how they referred to the group as their higher power so that's where i started.
'Came to believe' for me happened when i would try to stay away from AA, when i felt i could do it on my own, which i have posted about at length here, when i went through those stages in recovery. I found i would go a few weeks without a meeting, something would happen which sent my head spinning, i would then get to a meeting or two, get talking to other alcoholics and share in the group and these acts would in turn 'restore me to sanity'. I had no issue with the fact that this power of the group was and is 'greater than ourselves'.
So for me by experience of using AA when i needed it, i 'came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity'.
That power however as well as being the AA group, is now also a spiritual path and part of me that i want to explore. That path gives me peace of mind, or 'restores me to sanity' too.
So for me i eventually come to realise how simple step 2 was, even though it took me many months to get there. We're often reminded the program is 'a simple program for complicated people'.
Paul
For me, that power in the initial stages was the group itself, i certainly couldn't identify with a concept of God as an entity and have trouble with that concept now. Atheists in AA said how they referred to the group as their higher power so that's where i started.
'Came to believe' for me happened when i would try to stay away from AA, when i felt i could do it on my own, which i have posted about at length here, when i went through those stages in recovery. I found i would go a few weeks without a meeting, something would happen which sent my head spinning, i would then get to a meeting or two, get talking to other alcoholics and share in the group and these acts would in turn 'restore me to sanity'. I had no issue with the fact that this power of the group was and is 'greater than ourselves'.
So for me by experience of using AA when i needed it, i 'came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity'.
That power however as well as being the AA group, is now also a spiritual path and part of me that i want to explore. That path gives me peace of mind, or 'restores me to sanity' too.
So for me i eventually come to realise how simple step 2 was, even though it took me many months to get there. We're often reminded the program is 'a simple program for complicated people'.
Paul
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Wow, Paul. There's so much I agree with in your post. Agree is not the right word. There is so much in your post that resonates with my own experience.
Coming to belive in a higher power, let alone having that power work in my life, went against everything I believed when I got sober.
I was completely, 100% convinced that I could not stop drinking and that my life was over. I was hopeless. I did my step 1 research in the field. I knew, with absolute assurance, that I was going to keep drinking. I knew that I had no answers, and no way of stopping. I had surrendered. But that step 2 thing, whooo, what do I do now? How do I get over that?
I did it much like you described. I seized onto the 'willing to believe in the possibility" of a higher power message that is strewn around in Ch. 2. It's OK to be atheist or agnostic. So step 2 boiled down to the question of "is there hope for me or not?" Can I recover or not? And then seeing the examples of those around me who had been where I was at. They had recovered. And they assured me that I could as well.
From there, I just did what the BB instructed, with guidance of course. That surrender stayed with me. A little off topic, but I think, oftentimes, one of the big differences between the 12 step crowd and the secular crowd is just that surrender. It's not so much the 'god thing' we all seize on, but more the 'I want to do it my way' thing. When I knew my way was hopeless, I became willing to try another way. I came to believe that something else might work.
And again, this only makes sense in some hindsight. At the time, I didn't have opinions on how this fit together. I wrote where the book said write, prayed where it said pray, paused where it told me to pause, answered the questions it asked. I just did it without question and without opinion. Sort of driven to open-mindedness because my own ideas had been exhausted.
Coming to belive in a higher power, let alone having that power work in my life, went against everything I believed when I got sober.
I was completely, 100% convinced that I could not stop drinking and that my life was over. I was hopeless. I did my step 1 research in the field. I knew, with absolute assurance, that I was going to keep drinking. I knew that I had no answers, and no way of stopping. I had surrendered. But that step 2 thing, whooo, what do I do now? How do I get over that?
I did it much like you described. I seized onto the 'willing to believe in the possibility" of a higher power message that is strewn around in Ch. 2. It's OK to be atheist or agnostic. So step 2 boiled down to the question of "is there hope for me or not?" Can I recover or not? And then seeing the examples of those around me who had been where I was at. They had recovered. And they assured me that I could as well.
From there, I just did what the BB instructed, with guidance of course. That surrender stayed with me. A little off topic, but I think, oftentimes, one of the big differences between the 12 step crowd and the secular crowd is just that surrender. It's not so much the 'god thing' we all seize on, but more the 'I want to do it my way' thing. When I knew my way was hopeless, I became willing to try another way. I came to believe that something else might work.
And again, this only makes sense in some hindsight. At the time, I didn't have opinions on how this fit together. I wrote where the book said write, prayed where it said pray, paused where it told me to pause, answered the questions it asked. I just did it without question and without opinion. Sort of driven to open-mindedness because my own ideas had been exhausted.
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Originally Posted by stone 
This is so good for me to read right now! I totally identify with Paul's description and MycoolFitz's post is almost a "god shot" (lol).
Mindfulness has helped me more than anything ever has. For me, doing step 10 and 11 IS mindfulness (plus inventory).
Basically, I am stealing both of your posts and using them for myself!
Thanks, both of you.
Mindfulness has helped me more than anything ever has. For me, doing step 10 and 11 IS mindfulness (plus inventory).
Basically, I am stealing both of your posts and using them for myself!
Thanks, both of you.
Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle,
and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared.
Buddha
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for me step two like all the steps can run as deep or shallow as i need or wish it to...
initially this time through, step 2 occured for me prior to putting down the drink..or maybe similtaiously to it.....
I had become convinced that although others could get sober, i could not....somehow i was willing to go to treatment one day and maybe it was then..that i started to come to believe that maybe..just maybe i could be sober...after 8 years of trying...this basic belief was new for me.
Step 2 for me today is still a faith step, in that it is where, despite all my expereinces to the contrary...i begin to see that it is possible that some other path/expereince whatever...is possible...to step out into new territory despite all the irrational beliefs and negative expereinces of the past...
This step applies to so much more than just the drink! To be able to step out of the knowledge that i've got things all catiwompus...and believe in the possiblities....
initially this time through, step 2 occured for me prior to putting down the drink..or maybe similtaiously to it.....
I had become convinced that although others could get sober, i could not....somehow i was willing to go to treatment one day and maybe it was then..that i started to come to believe that maybe..just maybe i could be sober...after 8 years of trying...this basic belief was new for me.
Step 2 for me today is still a faith step, in that it is where, despite all my expereinces to the contrary...i begin to see that it is possible that some other path/expereince whatever...is possible...to step out into new territory despite all the irrational beliefs and negative expereinces of the past...
This step applies to so much more than just the drink! To be able to step out of the knowledge that i've got things all catiwompus...and believe in the possiblities....
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Posts: 870
This is almost verbatim my experience with Step Two. (Without the swear words, that is...)
Nothing I can add to improve upon the thread...thanks for the opportunity to identify.
Nothing I can add to improve upon the thread...thanks for the opportunity to identify.
Originally Posted by paulmh
A lot of people - maybe a majority even - are agnostic when they come into AA, Somehow we've got to overcome that first big hurdle, "came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity".
My experience is that I was convinced that I was going to die drinking, that I couldn't stop no matter what I did, and that I had reached a point of hopelessness. I met other people in AA who had got sober, and their stories were sometimes even worse than mine. So I became open to the idea that there might be a solution, but I didn't know what it was. This was a big deal for me. Previous to this, only solutions I agreed with or understood were what I was looking for. So I came to believe that I could get sober - and sane - again. But more importantly I became open to doing things in ways other than my own. The change that was wrought in step 2 was not in the nature of G*d, or my conception of him or beliefs about him - it was an opening and a shifting of myself to accepting that I did not have all the answers, and that there was a "way of sanity" which other had tapped into, and I could too.
My experience is that I was convinced that I was going to die drinking, that I couldn't stop no matter what I did, and that I had reached a point of hopelessness. I met other people in AA who had got sober, and their stories were sometimes even worse than mine. So I became open to the idea that there might be a solution, but I didn't know what it was. This was a big deal for me. Previous to this, only solutions I agreed with or understood were what I was looking for. So I came to believe that I could get sober - and sane - again. But more importantly I became open to doing things in ways other than my own. The change that was wrought in step 2 was not in the nature of G*d, or my conception of him or beliefs about him - it was an opening and a shifting of myself to accepting that I did not have all the answers, and that there was a "way of sanity" which other had tapped into, and I could too.
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I liked that a higher power of my understanding is just that: my understanding. It has currently taken me past my misunderstandings to a point of trusting my instincts. I have realized that the path of the Buddha can bring me past or transcend beyond higher powers or G*d. I was intuitively on the right path for addiction recovery. Be it 12-step or not. That I could take the transmission of the Buddha or 12-steps to make a transition beyond the root concepts into a place of being. That is being sober without the burden of being trapped by the concepts that brought me this far.
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