FreeOwl

Heya.... I'm glad to see you.

I've been too absent from this side of the forum, too.... and I also think the Internet Addiction thing is a powerful issue for me. Hard to exist in this modern world without Internet Engagement.... hard to engage in the Internet without Internet-Holism setting in.... the bane of an Addict!!

One thing that arose for me just now in reading and considering your post - I need to 'manage' my addiction to the Internet by channeling it into more positive and aligned uses. An hour spent on SoberRecovery beats half a day spent on Facebook in terms of its value to my own experience of life, my growth and self-development.

While "moderation" is something I know we all struggle with.... perhaps 're-direction' is a tactic that can be helpful. RE-DIRECTING my Internet Addiction from Facebook to SR is in fact easier and in many ways more rewarding and productive than seeking to manage, moderate or eliminate my addiction to FB..... but still being on the Internet and engaging here helps my use that addictive trait to a positive end.

Sorry... I'm rambling and off topic.

My point is, I'm glad you're still around.

dustyfox

No hate here for anyone - least of all a fellow traveller, just trying to get sober - we are in a bit of a weird and wonderful club but we all totally get it, you're right at home.

Aellyce

Yeah I definitely think I have access to every tool and knowledge possible on this, now finally including that I am willing to be more transparent and authentic on this forum. I've been much better at using recovery tools in the past year or so (perhaps that's not visible on this forum, but I think it's because I'm just trying to straighten things out and the progress has been a non-linear mess so far).

It's been such a weird journey, the last 10 or so years (see my SR sign up date as well). I was drinking heavily for about 5 more years prior, and I thought I came out of my denial after those five, but only realized recently how much of it I still had, and probably still have... It's so weird even why I keep running from reality so much, while at the same time nothing interests me more than trying to dig into everything possible about "reality" from a detached vantage point (science, philosophy, my meditation practices and so on). It's weird to me because I truly don't even have the history and traumas many of you guys have endured in life. In some ways, probably part of the problem is the opposite, that I have lived so much in a protective, accepting bubble that allows everything, for way too long. But all this, including my attitude, has only taken me so far, and definitely not out of this addiction.

I will try to use this forum more to deal with my drinking urges in the future, as suggested. I definitely have a lot of tools for that, and many works well quite often, but I obviously still fail, so there is definitely room and need for more constructive ways of coping with my urges. I'm fine right now but that means nothing as I can have frequent cravings anytime, triggered by specific things or not. I still find it helpful to record them and their context in the "urge log" I use from SMART, if for nothing else, just as a distraction. Putting all that in the records can be a good momentary distraction while right in the middle of it, and there is a column "alternative ways of coping" (things I haven't done during that urge but think I could have done) with an interesting pattern emerging. It shows I know very well what would help more than what I do, just don't do it or not consistently yet.

I would have a question for anyone who can relate to the "reality" issue. I know very well how common it is that we addicts perpetually try to run from it in many ways, including drinking, drugging and fantasy. I would like to understand better why I do it specifically. I know I can probably stop drinking without this but it's a much broader issue for me than just the drinking... there is all the lying, and even many aspects of how I live my everyday practical life, my private environment. If you have a version of this escaping reality tendency, would you mind sharing why, you think, you do it, even if it is not similar to what you see from me? Getting and staying sober may be simple, but my version of this perpetual escapism is definitely not. I've learned a very useful lesson from doing the cost-benefit analyses in SMART - almost every aspect of what I perceive as "benefits" of my drinking and other self-sabotaging behaviors (some of you would say benefits are illusions or delusions) are some form of escaping and creating/experiencing fantasies instead. SMART also encourages us to use the perceived "benefits" to come up with ideas for new hobbies and other lifestyle improvements, because we obviously like those things... So, some of mine should probably be reading/watching even more fiction and art, which I've neglected a bit in recent years, probably not good for me as those creative outlets used to be some of my favorite hobbies. As part of the lifestyle changes in my recovery, I should probably be creating things for fun again, as obvious fiction/art, instead of incorporating it into what I try to sell (and sometimes even think) as real . And do even the creative activity in time-windows with conscious, planned limits, to acknowledge FreeOwl's suggestions... not instead of other, important things that need to be done.

Sorry this is long again, but I think I'm pondering some things here that are genuinely useful for my recovery.

Obladi

Hellsyeah.

I'm so glad you asked this question, Aellyce, because as I was reading your earlier posts on this thread I was thinking that what's missing is honesty. Let me hasten to say that I don't think you are being untruthful with us, now. My thoughts/feelings were much more along the lines of "I know this - I've been there." My intelligence has helped me to be such a competently self-sufficient person and successful employee that it seemed abundantly clear that all I needed to do was figure this thing out and extinguish it with logic plus Doing Things. I got here by way of 'failing' at SMART, CBT, IOPs, RR; all very logical approaches that ultimately did nothing to prevent me from drinking. The truth for me and possibly the truth for you is that there was a whole lot of stuff going on in my subconscious that no amount of reasoning, scientific investigation or behavior modification could touch. My question about irrational beliefs was, "So what? I see they are irrational, but I already knew that. What do I do to become rational in my beliefs?" To me, now, the science of addiction is interesting and informative, but it's secondary to how I got there in the first place.

You've repeatedly said that your issue is no deeper than you just like to drink. But if you really don't want to drink (at least more than you do) and you continue to do so, then I think the issue is probably a lot more complex than that. And today, it seems like you agree that might be the case, hence the question. You say you don't have the trauma others do, so that can't possibly be what you're running from. This isn't a contest, sister. I imagine that everyone has trauma in their past or current life. My tendency was to just shove that stuff to the side, poo poo it in the same way - comparing myself to others: "Who am I to complain? Their troubles were so much worse than my pitiful selfish foolish little boo-boos."

I drank to escape the pain (insecurity, fear, shame) of my past that kept intruding on my present. But I didn't know that's what I was doing. Or maybe I did but I couldn't absorb it. Honestly, I didn't know even what the truth was about my own feelings. Mostly because I was very good at secreting them away within the folds of my everyday life. It's how I was raised, you see - stiff upper lip, boot straps and all that. I think you've heard me say that when asked 'why' I drank after a period of not drinking, I could come up with theories and suppositions galore, but none of them were satisfactory to me. I was quite honest with my therapist about that, yet he continued to ask what happened before I had that first next drink - as if that mattered. And it did, but I didn't know that...

The last couple of times I drank, I had absolutely no idea why. Some people (like my counselor in rehab) might think that's complete bs, but I promise you it's true. It was as if I had this autonomic response that necessitated flight into a bottle. In retrospect, I know that I was running from shame, from that exquisitely toxic cocktail of feeling foolish and ineffectual. Not to mention unworthy.

I was not being honest in all of the times leading up to this last quit. I mean, I was being honest - to the best of my ability. But there was 'stuff' that I had to sit through and absorb and (ugh) process while I was in rehab that last time - feelings I'd experienced time and time again but never really taken in before. Not for lack of trying, not for lack of commitment, not for lack of telling the truth, but for lack of honestly facing my self and learning to accept/believe that I'm ok - I am an ok human. In the final analysis,

So to finally answer your question: I think what I was escaping was a deep fear that I was, in fact, fundamentally not ok. This is exactly why 'getting and staying sober' was most decidedly not easy for me. As the natives say, "Simple, not Easy."

Glad you're back.

O

SoberLeigh

All of us understand the true monster that is alcoholism. We truly understand how it permeates practically every aspect of our lives - how it permeates and controls us. Every path to Recovery is different. I absolutely, 100%, believe that you will succeed in overcoming alcoholism (and, along with it, all of those demons we create for ourselves during our disease). Along the way, you will learn to forgive yourself and see you as we do - a very fine, intelligent, capable person who found herself in the grips of addiction, one who deserves true freedom from the captor.

Gabe1980

I'm glad you are back....I've had that feeling many times; tried and failed, must be pissing everyone off by now! Most important thing is we are still trying

Steely

I became tired of looking into the broken mirror Aellyce. It was bs, and I knew it.

Couldn't stand the morning after, either. All it did was prove again the bs.

Still pretty distorted and without form, but at least in with a chance to catch a glimpse of self, and be unafraid to view myself so. Slowly, painfully, begrudgingly, but beautiful in its own right.

Can only stand in the Hall of Mirrors for so long without becoming bored with the lie.

Sober I move through each of the Rooms, tentatively seeking the next. I always lose my way when I drink, returning to the original room defeated. Couldn't do it anymore. Didn't want to.

Aellyce

Steely - this sounds like in Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse, except that it's my reality and not a novel. Definitely agree, at this point. Thanks.

dustyfox

Some people to drink to escape, some people drink because they are seeking something.
Alcohol can produce heightened 'feeling' it can give access to a version of deep emotional experiences the drinker wants to feel.
Like a soap bubble it can not be for long -
Harder to find that 'feeling' without alcohol or drugs because it is elusive.

Aellyce

So true for me, dusty - I always find curious how people talk about drinking to numb feelings... for me, it's sort of the opposite. But I guess it only gives me fake, exaggerated, unrealistic "big" feelings, and it's not a surprise I don't identify with them when I sober up, even after just one or two days.

advbike

Glad you're back Aellyce. We are all seeking something as addicts, I do believe there is an emotional void that we try to fill, as Gabor Maté describes. I have been trying to fill it with homes, cars, relationships and moves for decades. Have mostly been on my own during that time, and my current LD relationship no longer provides the emotional support I need. I repeatedly set myself up for failure, perhaps subconsciously intentional.

Not coincidentally, I'm starting over today myself, having slipped up near the end of my vacation week in Northern California, after days of heavy socializing, virtually no SR, and several hours driving in the madness of holiday LA traffic. Two glasses of wine and a nice dinner brought relief to the anxiety, frustration and annoyance, followed by three beers yesterday. So much for my big plan.

Interestingly, during much of my trip, I was focused on plans to move back to Northern Calif, after several years away. Even did some real estate scans and research. This is what happens when I stay sober for some period of time - the other compulsions ramp up in order to stimulate the reward centers. Another escape plan in progress and taking my eye off my actual priority - staying sober and resolving the issues in my life. I need to nip this in the bud right now.

Glad you're here with us, appreciate the insights.

Dee74

I’m not sure I can expand in detail about escaping reality but I was deeply unhappy in myself and deeply fearful of everyday things like social interactions, how others saw me as a disabled but intelligent man, yet also imposter syndrome…

In the beginning I simply liked the way weed, and then later alcohol, made me feel better about myself and my problems.

It was almost as if I could exert some control over my life by absenting myself for a while.

I could handle physical pain but emotional pain terrified me.

Incrementally I turned to getting wasted to solve any problem, or escape any bad feeling…even tho getting wasted never really solved any problems, at best it simply moved them to one side for a while.

After a while it became ingrained behaviour and I totally forgot how capable I really was, which meant more fear and more ‘tuning out’.



D

dustyfox

I never drank to numb, always to heighten emotional feeling and to then feel connected to it and wallow in it and wallow safely because I knew it was not real, nothing could really touch me because I was drunk - people use the word wallowing as a pejorative term - I liked that feeling of being immersed in emotional experience it allowed me to 'know' the feeling in a way I sought but could not find when sober perhaps because I was too afraid of what would happen with a true emotional connection.

By drinking and seeking it, perhaps it was filling a void in me, perhaps I was too shy, too lacking in confidence to seek out that emotional experience in 'real life' without the alcohol. Somehow drinking allowed me, however briefly and however insubstantially, to go to deep emotional places I could otherwise not reach. Or so I thought.....

dwtbd

Non pejorative wallowing , oh yeah that’s it! And just detached enough to fully engage the beast and indulge the fanciful notion that the high never need end , and yet the smallest part was there too watching and rationalizing the pathetic exercise over and over .

Blissful wallowing pretty powerful draw , course has to be, to mask the reality of soul crushing slow death.

Toughroad1209

No one hates you. SR is happy that your back. You get to try sobriety again!

Aellyce

Thanks everyone, it's interesting to see all the personal accounts of escaping. I'm still not 100% sure about my version, but have all the time to figure it out if I want to... preferentially while not escaping either momentary reality or the answer(s). The meditation practice I've started a few weeks ago is very relevant to and helpful with this, as well as managing my AV somewhat better.

Dustifox's description of wallowing in hightened (but obviously distorted) emotional states while drunk is something I very much relate to, but not only emotional, any kind of mental stimulation and altered state. The sensory kinds like the music videos can provide (in addition to emotional input), all the virtual interpersonal interactions I've done over the years while drinking.

The "numbing" part in my version, I think, is often dulling/escaping responsibilities, even just the sense of it. I've always had these quite high-risk, high-reward professional engagements where I started all sorts of projects and had the primarily responsibility of managing them, including lots of team work with the people joining these projects. This has been going on since my teens when I started my first business, initially with my father, but soon took my own direction even before I was of legal age, and I learned very early on how to manipulate the system for business, guess part of the habit started there as well... I didn't start drinking frequently and heavily until my early-mid 30s. When I started that, it was initially an attempt to manage stress and sleep during a particularly hectic and crazy period with work - clearly a very bad idea, but I got hooked on it quickly then and continued to abuse for the pleasurable/escape effects even after that crazy period had ended.

I think this is part of why I was so happy to quit my last job (after years of preparing for the quit) earlier this year, but I haven't used the time as well as I planned yet. In some ways I did, because I did accomplish a few of the changes I wanted during this period, but obviously a big culprit (drinking) has remained, even if reduced in frequency. I may not come across as having a strong determination to kick the drinking habit from what I can transmit via this website, but internally I really feel I do, and I think that's what matters primarily... Only really started last November (I think being on SR for 10+ years means nothing as I was only studying recovery, not making any real effort until last year), and am just discovering there is more to change if I truly want the drinking for good. I mean I knew this and heard it from others for many years, but I'm only really figuring out what specific things need to change for me, per se. Many of you say quitting drinking is very simple = quitting drinking, and I wanted to cherish that idea, tried that mindset for a while, but it just does not seem to make sense in my case and clearly hasn't worked just like that. But studying it for so long had the benefits of getting lots of ideas, what to try and how, how to move on from each failed attempt and tweak the approach, what might be missing etc. What's good is that I never feel hopeless or helpless beyond perhaps some passing drunken or hungover moments, relatively easy to get up and continue trying something different or make adjustments.

One post that really clicked with me on my previous thread was made by silentrun:
I think the above has been part of my problem with using SR, and also for a while in the Zoom meetings. I definitely write/talk too much. Don't think this inhibits also listening to others, but there is a personal twist in it that is quite abundant in my history, how I often want to be someone who has insightful and useful things to say, and spend too much time focusing on this... while, obviously, not enough to truly develop my own approach, doing it it for myself. This, of course, ultimately interferes with my competency as well, even if it's just the personal sense of it. It's not a bad approach at all when initiating and managing large projects that will be executed by others in practical terms, and for a consulting business... but not sufficient for my own recovery, which I have to execute from beginning to end. So, according to the above principle, I should stop talking so much detailed cr@p, and I've already done that in the meetings I attend - mostly listen while there, and I find them indeed much more useful this way even if not as engaging and stimulating momentarily. That would be a progressive thing with SR as well - that's why I tried to quit last week (again), but then I can't read most of it either and using a fake account to just browse felt inappropriate and disconnected. Maybe there is a useful intermediate that I want to try. It's been quite helpful recently that I lost some of my credibility on this forum, because I don't have as much room to escape into that role right now, without backing it up with doing my part.

Speaking of escaping - a nice version, and I bet it'll be conductive to my sobriety as well, is that I'm going on a vacation trip this summer that I've been wanting to do for ages in terms of location, but the approach seems a bit challenging for me, at least before starting. A boat trip along the Pacific coast of some parts of the US and Canada with four other people. I have been going back and forth about the invitation from the friend who will manage the boat that we are renting, the challenge is that I have a tendency for motion sickness, and I have hesitated for months before finally deciding to take the risk. I got a prescription from my doctor to help and also some OTC meds many people find helpful and say these things completely eliminated their sea sickness, so they could go on similar vacations. If I can manage, I think it'll be quite interesting for me even just learning about how a boat like that works and how to navigate it, I know absolutely nothing about it yet and have never been even on a similar trip. All the other four people have done at least one before, so I'll be the only newbie to this kind of adventure. In case I do get very sick and it's intolerable, I'll just hop on land, rent a car, and continue that way without my friends, this possibility is also all planned out. Would be a bit disappointing, but certainly a possibility/limitation that I could accept. In any case, the possibility of being hungover on a boat feels highly repulsive by itself .

The people I'm going with don't care about alcohol much, not all teetotalers as far as I know, but not the kinds interested in drinking much or believe it is necessary to enjoy meals, relaxing and so on. Even if they have an occasional drink, social drinking is never a trigger for me, not something I engaged in during the past 10 or so years or find appealing in any way, and there will be no real escape for me on the boat, even if I have to leave and need to drive (I never drink and drive). I think this experience includes a lot of elements from what I said on my previous thread, that I need to do: interesting/fun activities, socializing, and the transient big environmental change will be beneficial I'm sure. Escaping the summer for a couple weeks from where I live will be divine. I can also still do my meditation, meetings and recovery exercises when I have access to internet or phone signal.

Then, when I return from the trip, I plan to get back into working gradually as I think ~6 months of time off will have been enough by the end of August, and I do look forward to getting back to business, hopefully sober in a more sustained manner.

Thanks again for the support and sharing your thoughts and experiences. I plan to continue sharing here how sobriety goes.

Aellyce

Relevant facts to add: the four people I'm going on a vacation with are all folks who understand personal challenges deeply, they all have had their own versions in mental health and life, and communicate about it quite openly now, both with me and some very publicly. Two are in recovery from addictions as well, so they definitely understand. All of them know my current state and desire to abstain from alcohol, understand it and doubt they would tolerate me getting drunk, or engage in any stupid drunken activities, while together. It will be easy for me if I want to attend Zoom meetings or do anything recovery-related, because it'll be out in the open. So, a great little group, no secrecy, no aloneness and being misunderstood. I know all of these people from my entrepreneur circles, so we have that in common as well and can discuss in depth - another aspect of development, important for all of us. I really look forward to this experience!