dustyfox

This is now day 3, (I have been on day 3 many times before!). And only my second day of discovering this forum and finding my way round it, spending time reading other peoples stories and realising that it is first time, in the probably over 35 years of being a 'drinker', that I have ever communicated with anyone about 'drinking'. And I am fairly sure that had I not stumbled across this forum, then by tomorrow or Thursday I would be 'allowing myself' to buy some wine. Because my mind is brilliant at giving me 'permission' to drink, even though I know it is a problem. I feel confident, ( I think I do) that I will not buy any wine tomorrow or Thursday.
In the past it has taken so much mental and emotional effort to not drink for a day, for two days, or a week, an exhausting amount of thinking my way through it - and then I am so exhausted by the mental effort of not drinking I have no energy to carry on 'not drinking' - what a ridiculous mess of a situation. I want to be in in control of myself, I want to stop being continuously weakened by a desire to have some alcohol. For me it is a huge battle of mind games which I play with myself and I don't even know why! Anyway , its only Monday so its gong to feel like a long week. Do I want to say I never want to drink again - part of me does - part of me resents the fact I have a problem with alcohol - do I even have a problem? These are the endless conversations I have with myself - which of course means YES I do have a problem! You see how exhausting and irritating I am to myself! But I am pleased to have found this fourm and have already gained insight and support.

GerandTwine

It sounds like you could make use of Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) which starts out with defining addiction as having strong ambivalence about whether to drink some more. YOU know it has become very problematic and that you are chemically dependent upon that wonderful experience of being under the influence. But your normal biological capacity to be habituated to pleasurable experiences is hard to break. IT has a power of its own, a power that you have indulged and protected for years.

AVRT shows you how to turn against that power of the habituated appetite for more drinking pleasure. AVRT is well described in the Secular Recovery section of these forums.

As you mentioned earlier, stopping is easy, staying stopped is different. You have to be willing to say goodbye forever to that really bad habit for the pleasure of alcohol in your brain and body. It can definitely be achieved fairly quickly and with perfection; perfection because it is impossible to drink without your having done many, many complex voluntary actions to get it into your mouth.

RecklessDrunk

One day at a time. The cravings may seem like they are only going to get worse but this is an illusion. The cravings will weaken over time. Don't worry about how bad the cravings may be tomorrow because it has nothing to do with today.

Try and relax and let go. Live life on life's terms. Be grateful for some of the simplest things.

advbike

Good going DustyFox!

The Addictive Voice (AV) is very powerful. I was shocked when I read the Rational Recovery book and discovered how much of what I thought was my own thinking was that of my AV. Once it realizes I'm not gonna fall for the "beer on a nice afternoon" trick it shifts to longer term thoughts.. like vacations, knowing those were always a weak spot for me. Months after quitting I will get thoughts and images of cafes in France or Croatia, or a beach in Thailand, lol. I now realize these thoughts are coming from my AV, not me.

I have also found on a daily basis if I get those occasional thoughts of drinking it is easiest to just shut them down immediately. If I entertain the thoughts it becomes easier to rationalize a drink. Do not give your addiction a seat at the table, so to speak. IT is too cunning. Tell it to "eff off".

kittencat

like vacations, knowing those were always a weak spot for me. Months after quitting I will get thoughts and images of cafes in France or Croatia, or a beach in Thailand, lol

I dream of that daily! Don’t you take that away from me. Please.

Free2bme888

Great going, Dusty.


I like AVRT also. Read some of the threads on it here on SR, and google it.

Wonderful freedom.

I did it without knowing it’s concept in 1987 when I quit smoking cigs.

Never looked back.

Now time to apply it to alcohol. What an addictive poison.

Chose life. I have. You have too

Delilah1

Welcome Dusty! This is a wonderful community, it helped me get sober, and has helped me stayed that way for Almost five and a half years now.

dustyfox

I have never heard of the AVRT before now. It seems that I certainly have an AV winding me up. I shall read up on it. Thank you for all the very wise and encouraging remarks. Today is day 4 and I feel irritable and fed up, angry and snappy and so now I have to put lots of effort into thinking about something 'to look forward to' but not the lovely glass of wine once the kids are in bed, which I feel of course I deserve! I enjoyed this line from Gerandtwine ' because it is impossible to drink without your having done many, many complex voluntary actions to get it into your mouth' - yep!
I also manged to kick a 25 year smoking habit - took me years of trying but I I haven't had a cigarette now for 10 years - I wish I could remember how I did it.
'Letting go' is a huge deal - it is almost like I cling to the pleasurable illusion of drinking and without it somehow life seems less enjoyable.....So I feel this evening will be difficult - and I hate being snappy but I feel reasonably confident I will succeed in squashing the AV!
__________________

Anna

Dustyfox, you're doing great in getting through these difficult early days.

If you enjoy reading, a great book is "Drinking: A Love Story" by Caroline Knapp. It's a memoir about a young, high-achieving women and her love story with wine. When I read this book, I knew that if she could quit, I could quit too.

enaiddes

Mine was too ! And scheduling the drinking was another way my mind helped me to drink. If it’s scheduled then it’s under control, never mind that I got completed wasted on those ’scheduled’ days.

For me the reason why I lived with the mind games was because I'm an addict for whom one drop of an addictive substance will reliably lead to a thousand more so I was constantly trying to control that so I could enjoy an ‘occasional one drop’. It was on a loop for me - one drop, one thousand drops, mind games.

You have a good solid insight into yourself and how you are with alcohol. This gives you an edge. I’m glad you’ve found this site and I hope you post often.

tursiops999

Welcome, dustyfox. AVRT is a powerful tool. The ambivalence and mind games were all part of the picture for me too. I wasn't sure whether I had a problem (it "wasn't that bad"), but looking back now with a few years sober, I can see clearly that alcohol had a greater hold on me than I knew. I could only see that after some significant sober time. I am so glad I put it behind me.

advbike

You're almost through the worst part dustyfox. Hang in there!

dustyfox

It is really very powerful, the urge just to say, 'C'mon how bad can it be. I am a well respected member of my community, a mum, a wife, have friends, well educated, professional....' I get up every morning and do everything that is expected at me. It's just that 4am wake up, night terror, sweat, pounding heart and sick feeling of shame that is the give away. It is the regret, the promise to myself at 4am that it will all stop - and yet by the end of the day somehow I have managed to forget the 4am wake up call....Even as I write here, now , there is a part of me that is saying ..'yeah yeah, blah blah blah' - it was different with cigarettes, the health consequences seemed more real, more pressing. I don't know why.

advbike

Same with me, even after only a few drinks. I truly believe I have developed an alcohol intolerance. So we have to want the serenity and restful sleep more. At one point I actually reverted to posting some notes around my house as a reminder, lol. It helped. And for several months I biked at my prime drinking hour, that killed the urge pretty well. But the single best thing that I do, and you're doing, is posting here regularly for support. Eventually it turns into posting to help others. But basically staying close for awhile. That's what really works miracles in my opinion, and got me 3+ years of sobriety. I see many newcomers come on and make a few posts then disappear after a few days. Unfortunately we all know what happened.

dustyfox

It certainly helps to have others wiling you on, because I imagine for many of us our own will power has taken a battering and is not always up to the task.

GerandTwine

With AVRT, you are learning that by separating YOURself from that old desire for alcohol and calling IT your Addictive Voice, allows you to see YOUR WILL in a different light. IT has always been influencing your will which has, until last week, regularly given into that power of the habituated desire.

Now it is time to realize how very different YOUR WILL is from ITs Power. The Power of the appetite center of the brain is what has caused life itself to survive over 2 billion years here on earth. What is HUMAN WILL, though, has only been around for one tenth of one percent of the time the desire to satisfy hunger has existed. Nevertheless, it is WILLFULNESS, that has allowed humanity to dominate and take over the earth. It is WILLFULNESS that has created human society. The critical aspect of WILLFULNESS that is important here on SR is the ability to INHIBIT or REFUSE TO ACT ON all kinds of animalistic qualities we have. And more to the point here on SR is that animalistic quality to get high on alcohol/drugs. It is not an unhealthy or diseased quality of our beings, it is simply an unfortunate outcome of our being very good drinkers/druggers. We loved what it did to us, too much. Now we have to say goodbye to that pleasure.

Your human WILL is what will allow YOU to beat your AV, permanently. I do not call it willpower because will only requires thought, not strength. I think of hunger as a biological power, even the acquired hunger for flavored ethanol. Like how you quit smoking or how you might have stopped drinking while pregnant, you can do the same with alcohol. In AVRT there comes a point when the question “What are your plans for the future use of alcohol?” comes up. And to continue in AVRT you must decide “I will never drink again.” Thus having used your WILLFULNESS (not willpower) in the period of one minute or so, to decide once and for all to discontinue any future internal debate on to drink or not to drink. This can be done perfectly, and is done thousands of times each day around the world by suddenly formerly addicted people.

You too can become suddenly formerly addicted. In AVRT it is called receiving for yourself a PhD in permanent abstinence. PhD = Phormer Drunk.

All this focus on recovery will fade BECAUSE you have made a Big Plan, “I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind,” and you will get on with life as you did as a non-smoker.

NOT DOING something like ingesting ethanol really is not a big deal once you dissociate from that former aspect of your personality that you used to coddle and protect. AVRT does that in spades. Now, you must experience all the thoughts and feelings (no actions needed) related to the death of that old, bad feature of your life.

GT

Free2bme888

GT

Thanks!

Fusion

GT, I find your use of the word 'willfullness' interesting, in this context. Could you elaborate, because some standard/legal usages of wilful, would also describe the machinations of IT/AV.

dustyfox

Will power is a confusing term and one that is frequently used, I have often thought about my own battle with addiction as one of willpower or lack of it. Now I understand the AV, (as of only a few days ago), I do not need Willpower anymore - because I am not fighting against myself anymore, I am instead saying NO to something that is trying to harm me. I do not need willpower but I do need certainty - And - I am certain that without any doubt the AV will and has harmed me. The AV can be sly and clever so I benefit from the experience of others who tell me the tricks it might play so that I am, in these early days of knowing the AV by name, more prepared to foil his attempts to trick me. Is the big plan just to STOP and get on with the rest of your life? That is a good plan, but I guess for some people their lives have been ruined and some healing and rebuilding is necessary? It is all very interesting and I think, I hope I am almost 'getting it' - I definitely get the role of the AV and how important it is to separate it from your 'true self' - once that has happened it seems much much easier.

GerandTwine

Stand in front of a mirror and see how long you can not blink. Take a bunch of deap breaths and then see how long you can hold your breath. How long can you fast? I try to do it for 2 days twice a year.

Some appetites we cannot squelch even if we had a willful desire. Their power is overwhelming (and good).

Then there’s elimination. How long can you hold it in? How long can you go out in below zero weather in bathing suit. Or in 100 degree sunshine in an overcoat? Stay awake as long as possible. Avoid sex like a Catholic Priest is supposed to (this last one CAN be done permanently for each individual)

Some appetites we can control to some degree, but they rarely rise to a conscious problem because they are part of staying alive. Some sex habits and some eating habits can and should induce ambivalent feellings on some occasions and these are somewhat similar to the ambivalence we experience here on SR about substance addiction.

So, on to the appetite sensual pleasures that we should and can decide to avoid forever. And it is by using simple willfulness that this is always done.
“I will not act upon these ideas of wrongfully satisfying this appetite desire.”

And finally, the ultimate usefulness of WILLFULNESS to me is my capacity to decide to NEVER satisfy certain appetite desires I had become habituated to loving that I finally determined were ALWAYS going to be wrong and bad for me to experience. This use of WILLFULNESS takes just a minute to fulfill and will last for eternity. The death of an habituated appetite can be a wonderful thing, and there is NO good reason to make it dependent upon anything else. ALL my other life issues can be dealt with outside of my being a permanent abstainer.

I never consume alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, or man-made sweets. I put “again” at the end of those four pledges because at the time of making them, I wanted to, for THE LAST TIME, acknowledge I had acquired the strong habituated appetite AND was, in that short minute, bringing it to an immediate termination; confidently and with very little power, comparatively (and ironically) powerlessly, just by using some electrical connections within my brain that became carved permanently upon my memory. This allowed me to respond quickly to discard any thoughts or feelings from my AV without breaking stride with what I had been doing.