Powerful AV
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Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 466
Powerful AV
Hello all, 3 weeks sober today (along with IMA2020 - my sober date sharing friend!)
One thing I have noticed is just how powerful some cravings can be. I haven't (and wont) give in, and have successfully held my AV at bay so far using SMART recovery (especially the disarm method).
In the documentaries I have seen, I have witnessed scene after scene of alcoholics dying brutal deaths and their families being destroyed as a result. Hours and hours of what will be my fate if I ever drink again...
But the dirty little AV is still there, prodding me every now and again. Especially in good weather. The persistent little worm.
I wonder what the science behind it is. I have literally seen footage of my horrific death at 30 years old if I keep going down a certain road but I still get urges to drink. It's insane.
One thing I have noticed is just how powerful some cravings can be. I haven't (and wont) give in, and have successfully held my AV at bay so far using SMART recovery (especially the disarm method).
In the documentaries I have seen, I have witnessed scene after scene of alcoholics dying brutal deaths and their families being destroyed as a result. Hours and hours of what will be my fate if I ever drink again...
But the dirty little AV is still there, prodding me every now and again. Especially in good weather. The persistent little worm.
I wonder what the science behind it is. I have literally seen footage of my horrific death at 30 years old if I keep going down a certain road but I still get urges to drink. It's insane.
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Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northern Ireland, UK
Posts: 455
Hey Owen congrats on 3 weeks 
Yeah the AV seems unaffected by even the most horrific drinking stories. It's so baffling to watch documentaries and then get a craving shortly after it happens to me as well. That's the insanity of addiction it doesn't discriminate. It wants us dead but will settle for us being miserable.
Yeah the AV seems unaffected by even the most horrific drinking stories. It's so baffling to watch documentaries and then get a craving shortly after it happens to me as well. That's the insanity of addiction it doesn't discriminate. It wants us dead but will settle for us being miserable.
soberfighterwriter
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,732
It IS insane, and that's why it's so important to stay away from that poison. I read a post here earlier, about our brain trying to convince our brain to do something our brain doesn't want to do. The mechanisms involved are so complex.
Find something meaningful to do, enjoy being alive and be happy that you are doing the best you can for yourself. You know I'm in your corner.
Find something meaningful to do, enjoy being alive and be happy that you are doing the best you can for yourself. You know I'm in your corner.
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Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: England
Posts: 315
The way I understand it is this. We have our survival drives, which are strong and rewarded with a strong surge of feel good chemicals/hormones by the reward centres of the brain when we indulge in them .
Alcohol (or other drugs) artificially set off the reward centre, flooding it with feel good dopamine. A brain reward, turbo charged. No natural reward can hit the heights of dopamine release as these chemicals we ingest.
So, that becomes confused with a true survival urge, because the reward is so high.
But, it is artificial, created by us, by drinking an addictive drug too often and too much of it. Being artificially induced, these rewards paid out by the brain, by using too much of the drug in the past, soon become messed up and don't pay out like they used to for it (tolerance). So we drink more and more
The chemical called alcohol messes with our brains natural chemistry and causes anxiety, craving and all sorts of unpleasant side effects not present in a natural high. Thats without the trouble it causes by changing our behaviour by suppressing our inhibitions, judgement etc everything that is controlled by the "higher thinking" brain.
I know that's very very simplistic. But that's the way I best understand the ..why?
Alcohol (or other drugs) artificially set off the reward centre, flooding it with feel good dopamine. A brain reward, turbo charged. No natural reward can hit the heights of dopamine release as these chemicals we ingest.
So, that becomes confused with a true survival urge, because the reward is so high.
But, it is artificial, created by us, by drinking an addictive drug too often and too much of it. Being artificially induced, these rewards paid out by the brain, by using too much of the drug in the past, soon become messed up and don't pay out like they used to for it (tolerance). So we drink more and more
The chemical called alcohol messes with our brains natural chemistry and causes anxiety, craving and all sorts of unpleasant side effects not present in a natural high. Thats without the trouble it causes by changing our behaviour by suppressing our inhibitions, judgement etc everything that is controlled by the "higher thinking" brain.
I know that's very very simplistic. But that's the way I best understand the ..why?
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Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: England
Posts: 315
Sorry, meant to say you cannot get that chemically induced high naturally, so INSTANTLY. You may have to work for it, but so much more rewarding to have, much longer lasting and no horrible after effects and messing up of your brain chemistry
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,100
Hi Owen, Below is a post I made early on about how I see addiction. I've done some research on it. Re-posting here in case you might find it useful (basically, addiction is a survival mechanism):
Forming the drinking habit is just like learning to drive. At first, we are unsure so we grip the wheel and think about our every move. But as time goes on we get used to driving (ie. drinking) and it becomes automatic. Before you know it, you're eating a big mac, listening to the news and fighting with your kid in the backseat while driving perfectly. Why? because the driving skill is now engrained. You don't need to think about it anymore because the skill is just there in the background of your mind (your subconscious). I've read that this process is actually a human survival mechanism...so that humans can carry out their daily business while staying aware of the dangers that are around.
Unfortunately, I repeated drinking many many times over many many years. So now my subconscious is like "hey, what's up, time for a drink". She wants what she wants and she doesn't care about consequences.
There's a certain amount of liberation in this because I KNOW that I can use my "thinking brain" to defy the "booze brain". And I KNOW that with time and good choices I'll be in a different place a year from now, with new habits.
Obviously there is so much more that drives addiction but I just wanted to share that in case it might help.
Forming the drinking habit is just like learning to drive. At first, we are unsure so we grip the wheel and think about our every move. But as time goes on we get used to driving (ie. drinking) and it becomes automatic. Before you know it, you're eating a big mac, listening to the news and fighting with your kid in the backseat while driving perfectly. Why? because the driving skill is now engrained. You don't need to think about it anymore because the skill is just there in the background of your mind (your subconscious). I've read that this process is actually a human survival mechanism...so that humans can carry out their daily business while staying aware of the dangers that are around.
Unfortunately, I repeated drinking many many times over many many years. So now my subconscious is like "hey, what's up, time for a drink". She wants what she wants and she doesn't care about consequences.
There's a certain amount of liberation in this because I KNOW that I can use my "thinking brain" to defy the "booze brain". And I KNOW that with time and good choices I'll be in a different place a year from now, with new habits.
Obviously there is so much more that drives addiction but I just wanted to share that in case it might help.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Warwick RI
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The Science behind it is well described in the documentary "Wasted" that Dee shared about a month ago.
I watched that...and the brain is changed by alcohol.....
FYI...I white knuckled my first long term sobriety ....sounded like you...I was not going to drink no matter what...and I did not for 8 years...It wasn't always easy but there were many years in that time that I wasn't thinking about alcohol at all...eventually alcohol does not become the first thought on a nice day, or a bad day....
I watched that...and the brain is changed by alcohol.....
FYI...I white knuckled my first long term sobriety ....sounded like you...I was not going to drink no matter what...and I did not for 8 years...It wasn't always easy but there were many years in that time that I wasn't thinking about alcohol at all...eventually alcohol does not become the first thought on a nice day, or a bad day....
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,100
Just to add:
last night, I ate a good meal and watched a movie. Also went for a drive and visited my mother. I didn't do any of these things in my drinking days. I have a feeling of fulfillment today.
I was thinking to myself last night, how in the heck did I ever get so deep into alcohol. I was not bothered AT ALL by thoughts of drinking. Actually, I was feeling grateful that I could sit back and enjoy something without booze.
last night, I ate a good meal and watched a movie. Also went for a drive and visited my mother. I didn't do any of these things in my drinking days. I have a feeling of fulfillment today.
I was thinking to myself last night, how in the heck did I ever get so deep into alcohol. I was not bothered AT ALL by thoughts of drinking. Actually, I was feeling grateful that I could sit back and enjoy something without booze.
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Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 466
Originally Posted by Lixie 
Find something meaningful to do, enjoy being alive and be happy that you are doing the best you can for yourself. You know I'm in your corner.
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Originally Posted by owen90
I wonder what the science behind it is....but I still get urges to drink. It's insane.
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Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Eastern US
Posts: 1,386
Yea, kind of like others said, part of our brain really does think that we NEED alcohol to survive and we have to fight that off with our higher brain. It can be hard sometimes but we can do it. Congrats on 3 weeks and I really like your dedication.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 3,520
Congratulations on 3 weeks Owen
Listening to the AV has always been my downfall and I still don't know how to cope with it when it fully kicks in. I just tend to give in, which is not really helpful at all. I find reading posts at SR by people who have learned how to cope with AV to be very useful as they show it can be done. Whatever it is that causes the AV, whether it's habit, a change in brain chemistry, insanity, whatever it is that causes addiction and addictive behaviour, people here at SR have overcome that AV, have refused to listen to it and to give in to it. I find that reading about how people learned to do that is an important part of my own recovery journey.
Listening to the AV has always been my downfall and I still don't know how to cope with it when it fully kicks in. I just tend to give in, which is not really helpful at all. I find reading posts at SR by people who have learned how to cope with AV to be very useful as they show it can be done. Whatever it is that causes the AV, whether it's habit, a change in brain chemistry, insanity, whatever it is that causes addiction and addictive behaviour, people here at SR have overcome that AV, have refused to listen to it and to give in to it. I find that reading about how people learned to do that is an important part of my own recovery journey.
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