PhoenixJ

I work VERY hard to heal, grow and move on. That I cannot CHANGE how others see me now, based on who I was, back then is a hard one. For ME- I know, just like a physical wound takes time to heal- there is pain involved. A warning to slow down, be careful - get help. So it is with emotional and spiritual pain. It means I have worked out stuff, 'cos it hurts. What I do with that info is the key. EVERYTHING I do requires the same amount of effort.
Fronting up to be grilled by a faceless government person to washing the dishes. I do them all- in the knowledge that I am improving and that there is HOPE.
Support again, to you.

cellardoor77

Thank you, PhoenixJ. I suppose that growth often does require us to go throw some emotional pain, and that we can't just skip over that part with some sort of happy pill and be all better. Support to you, as well.

teatreeoil007

Well, it all begins with honesty, doesn't it?

And the truth hurts sometimes as we are honest with ourselves first and are finally honest about the true condition we find ourselves in.....and perhaps our egos also play a part in not being fully honest with ourselves. Because what can happen with the ego is it tends to tell us a "concept" of who we are or what we "should be". ("I gotta be this and I just gotta do that and I'll do whatever it takes to hold onto those ideas")Therefore it can interfere with who we REALLY are. Or, it can make us think we have to be something that maybe isn't even necessary and doesn't bring peace. To stare straight in the face of "this is who I REALLY am" can be unsettling, but that really is the true catalyst for change when it comes to battling the demon of addiction.

You are so right about mindset. So much of it is just pure mindset, isn't it? When I changed areas within my profession some time ago, the one thing that STRUCK me was there was such a different mindset in one area as opposed to the other area!! And all the folks that worked in the one area had such a different mindset than the ones that worked in the other. Just a different mindset. But, part of that mindset was shaped and held by the "atmosphere" of the different areas. So, we are DEFINITELY influenced by our atmosphere, aren't we?

So, this goes back to what "shapes" us to become what we become, right? And yes, we do need to look at our childhood, how we were raised, the culture. Were we held accountable? Did we learn from the examples of others? How did our parents approach life, others, wrong-doing? Sweep it under the rug? Take the easy route? And were we ever punished wrongly? Granted, a lot of it is genetics, too.

As to being strong on our own. Nothing wrong with getting the help of others, nothing at all. We desperately NEED that at times! But some people in our lives tend to rescue us and don't get us to really solve our problems and issues at the core; help us really figure it out. I tend to be a rescuer...but if I rescue people TOO much I am doing them a big disservice. We just don't want to see others suffer...but suffering is part of life and part of dealing with consequences.

teatreeoil007

Yes, Mr. Dave Ramsey is the financial guy, BUT, his messages are way more than about finances. A lot of nuggets of wisdom in what he shares.

I was listening to a bleb by him the other day in which he was just talking about having excellence in the many ordinary everyday things. He was saying that it's not the big cuts that cause us to bleed to death. It's many little cuts that do that. (sort of like nickel and diming yourself). It's not the one bite of cake that makes you overweight, it's the gazillion little bites you take on a daily basis. His program/ministry teaches diligence and learning to be content. I would say that overspending is one of the biggest addictions that Americans face today. That, and overeating. Yet, we don't have big fancy rehab centers for those types of addictions, do we? Getting out of debt isn't just about paying off the debt one already has, but it is about looking into what CAUSED the debt in the first place and learning a whole new way of life to avoid getting back into debt-which does involve a whole new MINDSET. This causes a person to examine every aspect of their life. His premise is NOT to never spend any money at all, but to stick to cash basis and if you don't have the cash? Oh well, you can't buy that. Being content with what you have? Hmmm. What a concept.

With addiction, we are chasing the high, instead of learning to deal with how we feel without a "substance". And yes, we need to scale it back and take a look at what caused us to seek out substances in the first place!

cellardoor77

Yes, it all starts with honesty. It's amazing how difficult this can be at times, and what a bad habit it eventually becomes. You tend to think you're being honest because you're not telling the big fish tails, or compulsively lying. But even then, I would find myself wording things a certain way to make them sound just a little bit better, just to soften the edges or paint a slightly different picture. You then start believing all of that stuff yourself, which is the scary part (I wonder how much more prevalent this issue is in addicts vs non addicts) I'm working hard to make honesty my new practice.

I'm sure the ego does play a part in that. Like you said, it creates the problem by feeding us these ideas of who we're suppose to be. I think that unless we can learn to become honest with ourselves (and others), true change becomes very difficult, if not impossible. Sometimes, going down this road takes a little bit longer, and might need be more of a gradual process for many.

Reflecting back on childhood, adolescence, and even later years can provide a lot of answers. Sometimes that process can take awhile as well. No need to try and figure it out all in a week. But I still feel like the decisions that we choose to make today are just as important. One day at a time. One right decision at a time.

Sometimes it can be difficult to find the right help, but if you know you need it, and keep searching, I think that eventually you will find it. Hopefully we have close people in our lives that can help, or point us in the right direction. All of the tools, resources and forums on here have helped me out as well.

teatreeoil007

Do you ever wonder when you ever first started acting like something that you really weren't....meaning not being totally honest....and yes, I think most all people have done this. There are just times when something in us wants to present a "picture" of ourselves in the best possible light/frame...why is that? Perhaps to impress others. To feel loved and accepted? Then, once we have impressed others and feel loved and accepted there can become this pressure to keep that image up even if it starts to eat away at who we TRULY are and takes us farther away from our authentic selves. I think our society which is wrapped in images is part of the influence to not be totally honest...so we feel this need to project this image?

I mean, for crying out loud we are living in a day and time in which they are now selling "dirty jeans" at Nordstrom for $425!! Jeans that have real dirt built in them that won't wash out so it looks like a person has been doing something to get their jeans dirty, but haven't really gone out and done anything to get those jeans dirty. For crying out loud. Talk about farcical thinking and marketing. My dad would be rolling over in his grave if he knew about this. Sheesh! But this is just one example of presenting oneself in something that is not totally truthful...and it's the new "in" thing?? Eeek!

teatreeoil007

Different actions produce different results. Different choices lead to different actions. Here is a rant that so nails it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxOg...UIWWCI&index=9

cellardoor77

Those are all questions I've spent a lot of time asking myself lately. They're difficult to answer. If I get one little insight a day, I feel like I'm doing good. I think back to times when I wasn't using, or times when I wasn't using consistently and try to remember how I felt. Why did I often feel the need to accentuate what probably could've been good times, with a little something extra. Was I ever really happy when I wasn't using? Did I always have a low lying level of depression, and need to self medicate. Or was I always just chasing some kind of rush, and even before I discovered drugs and alcohol? Did I do these things because I was bored, insecure or lacking confidence, a thrill seeker? I've always been a little bit stubborn, had a problem with authority, and wanted to do things my way. I knew what was best for me, and never wanted to listen to anyone else. I knew what I could handle. I was fiercely independent, and a bit cavalier about many things.

As far as knowing when I first started acting like something I was not, it's hard to say. I think that growing up, we all wear different masks to one degree or another. I feel like their were certainly periods where I was closer to being my genuine authentic self, and other times where I veered away from that. It's difficult to remember it all. I can say with certainty, that when I started using, especially on a consistent basis, I strayed further and further away from that TRUE self, and begin creating a persona based mainly on what I wanted the world to see, or I suppose what I thought they wanted to see. When you're constantly using, there is not much there to really stop you from allowing that to happen. I wish I had identified the issues that were causing me to use when I was much younger. But I was young, stubborn and foolish, and did things my way. Never wanted to spend much time listening to anyone else since I thought I had it all figured out.

Lol at the $450 jeans. I was actually never really that vain, and wasn't super into fashion either. I based my self esteem on things like career success, abilities as a musician, intellectual BS, or maybe even the crowd I hung out with when I was younger. But never bothered to try and find, and actually like my true self.

teatreeoil007

I think perhaps feeling free (at liberty) to be your honest to goodness true authentic self starts to get 'pushed down' in childhood; and it rears its ugly head in adolescence in which so many kids are wrapped up in fitting in with their peers and wanting to be cool and eat with the cool kids so they will do what they need to do; act the way they need to act and dress the way they need to dress to do that.

Then as people continue to get older it becomes a mentality of "I gotta drive this type of car" and have this type of career and go on these types of vacations and nowadays post it all on Facebook so that my image gets out there and stays out there to convince others that I look good so therefore I am good. I'm not saying you do this, but I think our true self does get pushed down and then we start orbiting around something that is not really honest.

Time to break the orbit; break the gravitational pull.

But another thing that should probably get looked at here : Impulsiveness.

"Adults devise and follow a plan. Four year olds do what feels good." -(Dave Ramsey)

So in many cases there simply comes a time when we need to pull up our big girl pants; make a plan even though that might feel tedious and restricting to our free-spirited selves and follow it. And learn how to say the word "No" and mean it. If we cannot say the word "No" with power/conviction our chances of sticking to a good plan decreases.

Another way in which we veer from our true authentic selves is when other people in our lives control us too much. They pull us away from being true to ourselves.(because they have other plans for us) Think about that. Whether it was a controlling parent, a controlling spouse, controlling friends, or what have you.

Nonsensical

I have a friend who recently got clean and sober. I'm going over to his house later today to tell him he's a self-centered, shallow POS.


Seem harsh? I shouldn't say that to him?

Then why would I say it to the guy in the mirror? That guy deserves at least as much respect as anybody else I know.

You're defeating an addiction - one that murders thousands of people every month. Take your boot off your own neck and enjoy it. You got handed a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

Be Well!

cellardoor77

No, not EXACTLY like that (via facebook.. with all the pics showing how perfect my life is, but I suppose it does manifest in similar ways). I sort of hate all the self indulgent pics and selfies screaming "look at me and my wonderful life!"I'm more likely to post videos of myself performing some piece on guitar (making sure it's flawless first.. perfectionism, ugh). Or writing something I think is particularly clever, or posting about some particular accomplishment of mine. Not that there is anything wrong with this. A little self indulgence is ok, but there has to be more depth than that.. I mean more than just the image you project to the world.

I actually think one of my biggest problems is that I just seem to have issues really connecting with people. I mean on a deeper level. I have no idea why that is, and it's something I really need to think about.

Spot on here. Definitely have an issue with impulsiveness and follow through. I can get myself through some difficult stuff if I'm enjoying it, but as soon as it starts to become uninteresting, difficult, or I get bored, my dedication wavers. I managed to get myself through a doctorate program, but I really enjoyed what I was learning. It's unfortunate, though, that I was using drug helpers through much of that. Not all of it, though, and I certainly have some personal accomplishments to my name where meds/drugs where not a factor.

Jeez.. going through all this, it appears I have more than my fair share of problems to address lol. As much as I feel that I have a substance abuse problem, I'd say that I also have a life problem.

Hmm.. my parents where a bit pushy growing up. But I was equally as stubborn, and often didn't want to listen to good advice (which looking back, I think it usually was). I wanted to do things MY way, not anyone elses. Who knows how things would have turned out without them pushing me. I honestly cant say. But I feel like I probably have to take the majority of blame on that one.

cellardoor77

Thanks, Nonsensical. I've been having to remind myself of this quite a bit lately. I appreciate someone else reminding me as well.

tomsteve

something i heard early on in recovery
an alcoholic is an egomaniac with low self esteem.
or
an alcoholic is an egomaniac with an inferiority complex.

cellardoor77

Yeah.. I suppose that sounds about right.

teatreeoil007

For myself I need to stay away from fatalistic thinking and not allow myself to come down with the disease of "fatalism"....thinking this is the way it is and always has been and always will be.....NO!! Need shake this sucker on its head and make needed change. It can be done. Break the cycle. Get off the hamster wheel. Jump off the merry go round, you name it. Something has to GO!! For some people it's an intolerable roommate, a toxic environment, what have you.

teatreeoil007

!"I'm more likely to post videos of myself performing some piece on guitar (making sure it's flawless first.. perfectionism, ugh). Or writing something I think is particularly clever, or posting about some particular accomplishment of mine. Not that there is anything wrong with this. A little self indulgence is ok, but there has to be more depth than that.. I mean more than just the image you project to the world.

I actually think one of my biggest problems is that I just seem to have issues really connecting with people. I mean on a deeper level. I have no idea why that is, and it's something I really need to think about.

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This is sort of a paradox of the creative process. We work toward a perfect "piece"/outcome/product/work....but the creative process itself does involve some messiness. So, in a sense to get the creative juices going we have to let go of perfectionism...but we want it to be perfect as an end "result".

Artists, musician, writers are NOTORIOUS for being perfectionists and being the most critical of their own work. When two of my sisters were writing a song to put on our CD they rewrote and tweaked and tweaked and tweaked and finally I said, "Enough already! It's good now...leave it be!" Oh my gosh. Sometimes you gotta let go and know when it is "finished" and "good enough".

So, in a sense we are perfectionists, but we are MESSY perfectionists.

cellardoor77

Yes, you are correct about needing to break the cycle and getting oneself unstuck from this detrimental type of thinking. As mentioned in the video that you quoted (paraphrasing), 'different choices lead to different actions, which lead to different results'. Last night I made myself go out for a long jog. I felt good afterwards, and I actually felt better upon waking today. Today I took some time to meditate. I feel more at peace at the moment. I'm not anywhere near being at the point where I know every correct move I need to make as I move down this path, so I will just have to continue to MOVE FORWARD, and navigate as I move along. But I do know that I need a plan, and I need to learn to stick to with it. I also need to strive for balance. For now, incorporating these actions (exercise, medication, and other self care practices) into my routine is the start of my plan.

RE: creativity and perfectionism

A paradox is probably a good way to describe it. In some ways those two things are diametrically opposed to one another. You almost have to put yourself into 2 different mindsets, or wear two different hats as you move from the creative process to the refining process of the final product. And that was ME. I was always the one who after 50 revisions, could still find something else that could be improved or changed. Often, someone else would need to step in and say, "ok it's done, let's move on now". So for me, trying to figure out how this sort of perfectionism (and also a bit of an 'all or nothing' attitude) plays into my addictive tendencies. Maybe they don't play much of a role, and if so, that's fine. But it's one of those things that I feel I need to explore.

teatreeoil007

Good job on your 'routine'! Do it anyway. That's me and SugarAngel's new motto. Some people are more diligent than others naturally; more disciplined. When I am at work, I'm very disciplined. But even at work I find myself making myself stay on task. When I am at home? Not so much. Maybe that's me trying to balance things out. I MUST be disciplined at work.

When creative moments really start up and get going you almost have to just allow yourself to get messy and let go.....let it all hang out-let it flow...but then we find ourselves reining it back in as we start to perfect....In one of the guitar workshops I took the teacher (from Tennessee) said, "You need to loosen up little lady". haha I could have been offended by that, but I wasn't.

Our choices which lead to actions do take us to a certain destination. There is this fatalistic thinking that "I have no choice" no, No, NO. We DO have a choice. We control us. Intent. Positive intent. And like Nonsensical wrote, just because we've been given a cactus doesn't mean we have to sit on it. That's got to be one of the best sayings I've come across in a while.

cellardoor77

I know what you mean when you talk about being able to stay on task while at work but not at home. That's one thing that has been so difficult about not working right now. Before, I would do what I had to do at work, then come home and basically just chill, or treat myself to me time (netflix, music, whatever..) But I think this might be good. Having to create a routine and at least a temporary structure for myself, and not just loafing around waiting until I have to go back to work. I need to have that self discipline in my life. Plus, exercise makes me feel pretty good, even if I am having to force myself to do it right now (never was a huge fitness junkie). And yes, it all starts with making a choice.