dcg

I've heard of this guy's books here before, but what's his educational background? Sounds like he's talking straight from his ass, tbh. I know plenty of people who drink very, very moderately (like 3 times a year and never get tanked). It's like saying anyone who eats any junk food is a food addict but some die of old age before becoming obese.

OpenTuning

Hi dcg,

It's worth giving his book a read. His argument about who is an alcoholic is more theoretical rather than being based on any claims of medical expertise. Been a while since I read it, but think his main point was to try to stop people thinking of alcoholism as a mysterious disease that affects some people and not others. He's saying anyone can become an alcoholic in the way you and I would usually think of it. And also he argues very strongly, and effectively for me, that moderation makes no sense for anyone, not just people with acknowledged problems with alcohol.

I'm not doing a good job of explaining it, but his book is very much worth a read. It really helped me counter all the arguments my AV would make to get me to drink again.

Dee74

I understand your fears Thomas. All I can do is offer my own family as an example.

No alcoholism on my dad's side, much alcoholism on my mums but neither of them are big drinkers.

My brother was a heavy drinker in his younger days but once he started a family he stopped.

My sister hardly drinks at all...

and then there's me.

Genetics may play a part but I think there must be other factors involved as well.

I knew what I was by age 32 anyway.

If god forbid, your son does cross that line, the best thing he can have in his corner is a parent who understands

D

EndGameNYC

In the end, and as others have suggested, it makes no difference to me how I came to be an alcoholic. Knowin the "why" will in no way affect my sobriety, I'm content to just let that mystery be.

I'm very much aware that this can be an extremely controversial subject, within and beyond the study of psychology, and that people sometimes go off on a rampage if and when the research doesn't support their own experience or their own thinking. This is not a good enough reason not to talk about either conflicting or mutually-supporting perspectives.

Recent research has provided suggestive evidence that inherited personality traits have more to do with developing problem drinking, alcoholism or addictions than does a specific gene or group of genes for alcoholism. I coordinated an ongoing study just over a decade ago on the genetics of alcoholism. And though there was some evidence that alcoholism did "run in families," the findings were not robust enough -- and remain so -- to establish a specific genetic link. There are largely insignificant findings that show some genetic correlations with alcohol, but still no specific gene or cluster of genes. The Multiple, Distinct Ways that Personality Contributes to Alcohol Use Disorders

In the (an) alternative perspective, alcoholism or addiction is instead viewed as deep learning, learning a way of thinking (and then behaving) on a very deep level. The neurons in our brains learn specific behaviors over time, and new learning can displace the unwanted neural pathways that keep us stuck in destructive habits. As such, it is not easily treated or modified. Interpersonal support, and the accumulation and execution of psychological skills for living are emphasized in this model, rather than the standard rehab techniques which too often deploy 12-Step principles and revert to telling people what's wrong with them and how they should live their lives. In such cases, and without social supports, people typically resume their drinking a short time following discharge.

The presence of most types of psychopathology -- such as anxiety, depression and personality disorders -- is correlated with an increased risk for alcoholism and other addictions. ("There is high comorbidity of alcohol dependence with mood, anxiety, substance abuse and personality disorders. Personality disorders, in particular, are considered to be an important contributing and/or predisposing factor in the pathogenesis, clinical course and treatment outcome of alcohol dependence." - Comorbidity of Personality Disorders with Alcohol Abuse) It also works the other way around: the presence of alcoholism or other addictions is correlated with a higher risk for psychopathology.

Psychopathology rarely remits spontaneously, particularly with personality disorders, and the sufferer often greatly benefits from psychotherapy and/or psychopharmacology, yet few addicts seek this or any kind of help, and fewer stay in treatment long enough for a remission of symptoms. Others, still, cannot or will not avail themselves of the multiple avenues of social supports.

Jbs2702

It's similar to the nature/nurture debate as to how children turn out. I think some people are pre disposed to having addictions whether it be alcohol, gambling drugs etc. for others it is a combination of circumstances or peer groups that leads them into addiction for others it's a habit or a combination of these factors.

Personally for me I think that I do tend to have consumption issues when it comes to alcohol. I drink to get drunk. Have never been able to have a couple. It's the buzz I'm looking for. In my teens and twenties this was acceptable as there was a group of friends who wanted to do this every weekend. As circumstances changed the group changed but I would always be looking for that drunk buzz at least once a week. Due to kids marriages etc drinking At home became more and more regular and going out less so. I would have to make sure there was exactly enoug alcohol to get me properly drunk if I was in the house. If I went out it would be with all the best intentions but I would usually roll in hours later and hardly have any recollection of where I'd been. This caused a massive strain on my immediate relationships. In the last twelve months I have started to think more and more about why I am drinking and two weeks ago made the decision to stop. I fully believe that some people are genetically more susceptible to having a drink problem and it really scares me to think that one of the kids may also have this issue but until they grow up its impossible to know. I do know that my aim is to stay sober and be able to pass on my experiences to them should any problems arise.

hpdw

Its good to read different point of view .

I have read up on Neuroplasticity NYC and thanks for an interesting post .

Dee thanks also

JBS im with you and wish you well , were roughly at the same point in sobriety also your story was similar to mine

LiveInPeace

Might be off-topic and apologies if it is, (can someone let me know?) but this is where I get so confused when the medical and health community come out and say things like red wine is good your health/heart. I knew a doctor who was very strict with women and wine intake, because of the breast cancer risk. That made more sense to me, treating alcohol like "poison" vs a health food...

Keepnitreal

I think it's "poison" to alcoholics fir sure, and any abuse is poison. However, within certain guidelines it is found to be medicinal.

OpenTuning

There are actually lots of websites busting the myth about supposed health benefits of alcohol. Ranging from the fact that you can get the same antioxidants from fruits and vegetables, to the studies ignoring the high amount of calories from sugar in alcohol, to problems with the studies lumping all non-drinkers together when comparing health results, including former alcoholics who may have abused their bodies for decades (given how around 80% of UK adults drink, who that remaining 20% consist of is an important consideration), to of course the difficulty (or near impossibility) for many people to restrict themselves to that single glass of red wine per day which is the maximum any of the studies are talking about.

So yes, the safe option is to treat it like a poison. Because that is what it is.