Interesting Thought Occured
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 302
Interesting Thought Occured
I had a group interview for a job on campus today with 4 other people. When the interviewers asked the question about what we thought were some strengths and weaknesses, I was surpised that 2 of them said there weakness was being awkward. One of them elaborated a bit more by saying they felt awkward because they were very shy and sometimes felt they didn't know how to communicate well with others.
When I saw these people I didn't think they were awkward at all, they actually seemed like average normal people. If I were to look at them I would have never guessed they felt this way. I myself feel this way from time to time and when I do feel this way, I think other people can sense it as well. Its interesting because it made me think that maybe its all just in my head and I also appear like a normal individual. Walking around my campus I see people talking and mingling all day and I tend to think everyone there is a social butterfly and I'm flawed. Today was a friendly reminder that this is not the case which brought me a little closer to feeling like a part of the campus instead of feeling like an outsider.
When I saw these people I didn't think they were awkward at all, they actually seemed like average normal people. If I were to look at them I would have never guessed they felt this way. I myself feel this way from time to time and when I do feel this way, I think other people can sense it as well. Its interesting because it made me think that maybe its all just in my head and I also appear like a normal individual. Walking around my campus I see people talking and mingling all day and I tend to think everyone there is a social butterfly and I'm flawed. Today was a friendly reminder that this is not the case which brought me a little closer to feeling like a part of the campus instead of feeling like an outsider.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
It's a good reminder.
Many of us quietly, secretly believe inside that we're not good enough, that others are much more at peace than we are, that we're the only ones feeling anxious and off-center.
Truth is; humans feel that way. Some are better than others at hiding it. Some are more open about it. Some are almost debilitated by it and some don't feel it at ALL (Narcissists and sociopaths, mostly).
If you're human, you will have self doubt from time to time.... sometimes ALL the time. I find it helpful to remember that, and to observe my own feelings of awkwardness with a supportive, loving acceptance. Oh don't get me wrong; I don't do this anywhere near all the time and still often am sort of freaking out inside....
But I'm more and more OK with that.
Many of us quietly, secretly believe inside that we're not good enough, that others are much more at peace than we are, that we're the only ones feeling anxious and off-center.
Truth is; humans feel that way. Some are better than others at hiding it. Some are more open about it. Some are almost debilitated by it and some don't feel it at ALL (Narcissists and sociopaths, mostly).
If you're human, you will have self doubt from time to time.... sometimes ALL the time. I find it helpful to remember that, and to observe my own feelings of awkwardness with a supportive, loving acceptance. Oh don't get me wrong; I don't do this anywhere near all the time and still often am sort of freaking out inside....
But I'm more and more OK with that.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,516
That's something that I recognized too, when I stopped drinking. I felt alone, but when I started to pay attention to people I interacted with, I found that they, too had issues and problems in their lives. There issues may have been different than mine, but we were all struggling in some sense.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
What the group members described is actually a strength: An ability to work through difficult circumstances -- all of which involve anticipatory fear on the part of the participant -- instead of avoiding them or running away once they're in it. Another possible strength is that they were clever enough to demonstrate this strength in the group. What you've described underscores the power of group therapy.
The worst of all possible "treatments" for social anxiety and other fears is to either avoid situations around which we make negative predictions, or to flee from them when the anxiety presents itself. Freud referred to this as "signal anxiety." Our minds and bodies send us signals that something bad is about to happen, often when there is little or no evidence to support this. We become paranoid and, as a result, we search for evidence that confirms our hypothesis that we are walking into impending danger, and we block out all evidence to the contrary. (For another interesting perspective, Google "James-Lange Theory of Emotions.")
The more we give into our fears, real or imagined, the more fearsome our fears become. We all know this. In extreme cases, people find it difficult to leave their homes, even their beds. For the very dire consequence of near-absolute isolation alone, this is and continues to become, an extremely painful way to live.
Missed job opportunities, an inability to hold a job, broken relationships or missed opportunities for new relationships, not showing up for important events/appointments, a formidably and persistently narrow perspective that (painfully) supports nothing but itself and increasing terror become dominant players in our history.
I worked with a woman many years ago who suffered from panic disorder. She could barely leave her home without shaking, sweating and vomiting. Getting to her weekly sessions was an ordeal for her. Her dog eventually took on the same symptoms. It is well known in my field that anxiety reactions can be learned and are extremely difficult to unlearn.
I think it's important for us to grow into our way of being before we are truly comfortable with who we are, and this is an extremely difficult thing to do in isolation. It often requires outside help. I'm not a fan of the word "introvert," and not only because it suggests that something is missing in addition to other surplus meanings. There's nothing wrong with shyness, often viewed as a charming or otherwise positive trait, or having a preference for doing things on our own. Like anything else, problems arise when our anxieties infiltrate and then adversely affect major areas of functioning.
The amount of time and energy -- both limited commodities -- we spend catastrophizing outcomes takes an unholy toll on us, and for many of us, it determines our choices in life, how we view ourselves and how we interact (or not) with the rest of the world, including other people. In a sad twist of irony, extreme anxiety becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy in that we bring to life our own negative predictions as a means of exerting a modicum of control over ourselves and over situations that trigger our anxieties by forcing our greatest fears to come true, a sense of control that is only illusory and often destructive.
Some of the most brilliant people I've worked with could be described as "socially awkward." In many cases, this only made them more interesting to me. I don't really care for people who are constantly flashing their big, toothy smiles, back-slappers and people who are compensating for their insecurities by rah-rahing their way through life, yours and theirs. (Or those who, according to Christopher Bollas develop a "normotic personality.) You and the other people did the right thing by showing up and then taking the opportunity to talk about what you did when the opportunity was presented (depending, of course, on the type of job that's being offered).
It simply isn't true, for exmaple, that "AA is a selfish program." What's selfish is the way we live our lives as active alcoholics. We only pretend to care about other people as a means of fending off anticipated criticism from others about our drinking. We are willing to sacrifice virtually everyone and everything in our lives in order to continue to destroy ourselves and those we take down with us. The whole world is always and ever against us, so we "have to" drink. We are a sample of a larger population that is positively begging for extinction, and yet we blame the rest of the world for our troubles. No one understands our suffering. We loathe being labeled yet we embrace victimhood as a way of life, and we never hesitate to use that label when it suits our purposes.
The world is filled with people who are anxious, panicked and just plain scared. The problem with living a life based on fear and shame is that we use the condition itself to deflect help from other people, including other people who suffer in the same way. In turn, we are also reluctant to extend help to other people who need exactly the kind of help that we ourselves need. As is often the case, the solution resides in the problem itself.
We don't need to break down the door all at once; we only need to open it a little bit at a time.
The worst of all possible "treatments" for social anxiety and other fears is to either avoid situations around which we make negative predictions, or to flee from them when the anxiety presents itself. Freud referred to this as "signal anxiety." Our minds and bodies send us signals that something bad is about to happen, often when there is little or no evidence to support this. We become paranoid and, as a result, we search for evidence that confirms our hypothesis that we are walking into impending danger, and we block out all evidence to the contrary. (For another interesting perspective, Google "James-Lange Theory of Emotions.")
The more we give into our fears, real or imagined, the more fearsome our fears become. We all know this. In extreme cases, people find it difficult to leave their homes, even their beds. For the very dire consequence of near-absolute isolation alone, this is and continues to become, an extremely painful way to live.
Missed job opportunities, an inability to hold a job, broken relationships or missed opportunities for new relationships, not showing up for important events/appointments, a formidably and persistently narrow perspective that (painfully) supports nothing but itself and increasing terror become dominant players in our history.
I worked with a woman many years ago who suffered from panic disorder. She could barely leave her home without shaking, sweating and vomiting. Getting to her weekly sessions was an ordeal for her. Her dog eventually took on the same symptoms. It is well known in my field that anxiety reactions can be learned and are extremely difficult to unlearn.
I think it's important for us to grow into our way of being before we are truly comfortable with who we are, and this is an extremely difficult thing to do in isolation. It often requires outside help. I'm not a fan of the word "introvert," and not only because it suggests that something is missing in addition to other surplus meanings. There's nothing wrong with shyness, often viewed as a charming or otherwise positive trait, or having a preference for doing things on our own. Like anything else, problems arise when our anxieties infiltrate and then adversely affect major areas of functioning.
The amount of time and energy -- both limited commodities -- we spend catastrophizing outcomes takes an unholy toll on us, and for many of us, it determines our choices in life, how we view ourselves and how we interact (or not) with the rest of the world, including other people. In a sad twist of irony, extreme anxiety becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy in that we bring to life our own negative predictions as a means of exerting a modicum of control over ourselves and over situations that trigger our anxieties by forcing our greatest fears to come true, a sense of control that is only illusory and often destructive.
Some of the most brilliant people I've worked with could be described as "socially awkward." In many cases, this only made them more interesting to me. I don't really care for people who are constantly flashing their big, toothy smiles, back-slappers and people who are compensating for their insecurities by rah-rahing their way through life, yours and theirs. (Or those who, according to Christopher Bollas develop a "normotic personality.) You and the other people did the right thing by showing up and then taking the opportunity to talk about what you did when the opportunity was presented (depending, of course, on the type of job that's being offered).
It simply isn't true, for exmaple, that "AA is a selfish program." What's selfish is the way we live our lives as active alcoholics. We only pretend to care about other people as a means of fending off anticipated criticism from others about our drinking. We are willing to sacrifice virtually everyone and everything in our lives in order to continue to destroy ourselves and those we take down with us. The whole world is always and ever against us, so we "have to" drink. We are a sample of a larger population that is positively begging for extinction, and yet we blame the rest of the world for our troubles. No one understands our suffering. We loathe being labeled yet we embrace victimhood as a way of life, and we never hesitate to use that label when it suits our purposes.
The world is filled with people who are anxious, panicked and just plain scared. The problem with living a life based on fear and shame is that we use the condition itself to deflect help from other people, including other people who suffer in the same way. In turn, we are also reluctant to extend help to other people who need exactly the kind of help that we ourselves need. As is often the case, the solution resides in the problem itself.
We don't need to break down the door all at once; we only need to open it a little bit at a time.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 302
I like your post EndGame, especially the last sentence. If we open that door a little at a time then all of a sudden its completely open. What a positive way to look at it.
I've been trying to open that door up, which is why I applied at a couple jobs. I need more social interaction in my life because its healthy. Leaving the mind to wander for too long can be a bad thing, I've witnessed it before.
I've been trying to open that door up, which is why I applied at a couple jobs. I need more social interaction in my life because its healthy. Leaving the mind to wander for too long can be a bad thing, I've witnessed it before.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Many good responses here, Soberish. This is a topic that I relate to as well, at least my "earlier self". When I was younger, I always considered myself socially awkward and often felt uncomfortable in groups especially when they were groups of strangers. I had a tendency to compare myself to other people in the regard and to feel intimidated about my "social skills" in comparison. I had to learn not to do this, and also to accept that most of this anxiety was in my head... other people rarely mirrored my perception of myself or saw me awkward, shy, and lacking skills to communicate. Some did, but I realized with time that those were most often projections from people who were more insecure than myself but handled it differently, trying to create and show a socially acceptable and popular persona, which I have never done or would be willing to do. So maybe I am less comfortable and skilled with the generally more superficial type of social interactions that often characterize communication in groups in 3D life, but the upside is that it's natural. What you see if what you get. And I consider this (not being pretentious) a strength now, absolutely not a weakness. I encourage you to look at it in a similar way. From most people that have really mattered to me, including in professional life and job interviews, I have gotten positive feedback on this "being who I am" feature, and privately some even compared it to me with the fake confidence displayed by others. Ironically, I have also received feedback many times that I appear very self-confident in professional situations, when the interaction is centered around areas I am familiar with and interested in. There are many ways to develop self-confidence, professionally mine tends to come from my knowledge and experience, and from an openness to criticism and discussion. I think it's best to find our natural strength and build upon that. I find that the rest often follows.
Another area in social life that I feel my personality has strengths (even in comparison with many others) is all sorts of one-on-one interactions that require attention to the individual and depth. I always thought this was interesting... the contrast between how I sometimes feel uncomfortable, guarded and shy in groups vs the relaxed and natural confidence and having very fluid boundaries one-on-one, especially in close relationships (be it work or personal). I never truly needed to learn the former, but I did have to work on (and continue to work on) my social skills relevant to groups. I think we all have our individual strengths and weaknesses in the area of social interaction, there is nothing to be ashamed of about it.
Another area in social life that I feel my personality has strengths (even in comparison with many others) is all sorts of one-on-one interactions that require attention to the individual and depth. I always thought this was interesting... the contrast between how I sometimes feel uncomfortable, guarded and shy in groups vs the relaxed and natural confidence and having very fluid boundaries one-on-one, especially in close relationships (be it work or personal). I never truly needed to learn the former, but I did have to work on (and continue to work on) my social skills relevant to groups. I think we all have our individual strengths and weaknesses in the area of social interaction, there is nothing to be ashamed of about it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Yep 'a disease of the perception'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRUvuh4FrVA
I remember hearing the speaker on the link above describe exactly what I do / did : i.e. judging my insides against other people's outsides. As he says, that can lead to self-pity which really isn't good for sobriety, so I try to stay mindful of these comparisons now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRUvuh4FrVA
I remember hearing the speaker on the link above describe exactly what I do / did : i.e. judging my insides against other people's outsides. As he says, that can lead to self-pity which really isn't good for sobriety, so I try to stay mindful of these comparisons now.
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