Aellyce

Hello, everyone.

I would like to see if there are people similar to me regarding some lifestyle choices / questions in this community. I've been sort of living a nomad minimalistic (in terms of avoiding any surplus) way in my whole life as an adult. I had a nice family home as a kid, where I grew up... a house with a large yard and a beautiful garden in a quiet outskirts area of a big city, normal childhood in pretty decent financial and emotional security etc. Only child. But I recognized in myself a curious restless spirit very early on... a desire for independence and for living the life of my choice no matter what (often against my environment's advice). So I decided to study to be a scientist, and part of the appeal, I admit, was that I knew I would be able to travel a lot with this type of profession.

After graduating from college and a quick Master's degree, I decided to move abroad to pursue additional graduate studies and to be in a "world" that fascinated me intellectually, culturally and geographically. And then continued to do this after getting my degree, on and on. ~3 year stints, move to another country, another city. I've tried to understand this motive for ages in a million ways. Is it curiosity? Not wanting to deal with much practical reality and maintenance of it? Commitment phobia? Searching for my professional niche? My most ideal lifestyle? Identity search? All of this in a dynamic package perhaps?

Last move was to here, NYC, nearly 5 years ago, so this has definitely been the longest and most "stable" adventure so far. It wasn't during these 5 years when I experienced my worst with mental issues and alcoholism, it was actually before moving here. But it did not get much better either until early this year when I quit drinking and started on this current recovery journey 10 months ago.

So now I feel I am in a professional area that I genuinely love and don't want to change much anymore, just expand and explore. I also love the city and everything about the lifestyle it offers. But I wonder, why do I still get thoughts that perhaps I still should not settle down here and be open to yet unforeseen possibilities? Why do I still fantasize about having a "second life" elsewhere? Do I still have fears? Or it's just my curious and open-minded personality?

Anyhow, recently I've started looking for a new apartment here and I have been contemplating whether I want to continue renting as always before, or buy one at this point. The buying option kinda scares me... maybe just because it's unfamiliar. My sense of "security" has definitely come largely from being flexible so far and not tied down in any way (I also never married, don't have kids etc). I have never been a security seeker in the traditional ways, never much interested in accumulating wealth beyond what affords me the level of life I enjoy, and really don't get much pleasure from dealing with material things too much.

I do not explain this mentality and pattern with my addiction problem at all, but I do wonder if there are others similar to me here. I am 40 years old now so not exactly a kid by age but in some ways I feel I'm immature regarding these things. At the same time, many people have told me that the ability and willingness to not settle and always keep an open mind to whatever possibilities may arise is a sign of wisdom they never had. Well, then I guess I grew up too fast and have been frozen as an old soul. Just kidding

Okay, sorry for the long post I just wanted to paint an accurate picture.
Thoughts, experiences to share?

LBrain

I'll have to get back to you on life choices. However, I'd really take some time to think about it before committing to buy a place. Unless of course you know you can rent it or unload quickly if your roots begin to whither.

CNY46ER

Excellent post. I to have a wandering soul. I believe you sense of adventure is fantastic. Life is a journey those of us who can move through it with the sense and wonder of a child are wise not immature at all. I to often have dreams of a second life. One of adventure, even having an alias where I give up my worldly posessions and drift to where the universe wills me. You seem fascinating and I commend you for the life you lead. We have similarities and I relate to you. Have and excellent day

Soberpotamus

I purchased a home purely as an investment. I bought it from the company I worked for at cost, so I had instant equity.

I've always been rootless, like you, until this purchase.

So, I'd suggest maybe look at a potential purchase in terms of investment value, equity, and possibly with intent to resell in the future. That way, you're putting your money into your investment instead of throwing money away on rent.

It made me feel better anyway

ArtFriend

I had a dramatically different childhood. Abject poverty, father in and out of prison, violence, mental illness and alcoholism. We had to move frequently because there was never money to pay the rent. The only constant in our lives (4 kids) was my mom. She was the one who provided stability and love. But, we got the message early on to do what you have to do to survive. And she encouraged education. So all 4 of us went on to college and grad school. And we all became very independent.

I also moved quite a bit in my early adulthood. And at the time I was seeking "something" but not really knowing what. All of us siblings moved around a lot. My mother stayed in Michigan, but my sister went to Seattle, one brother to NC and the other to RI while I came to Texas. I rented apts all of my life until I bought the house I currently live in in 2000. This is the longest I have lived at one location. I was 42 went I bought it.

I found that I also craved change in almost every area of my life. I got bored easily..with jobs, locations, and lovers. I also wondered why. And I am not quite sure if I ever figured it out, but at 57 I am much more settled in my mind and spirit. Maybe it is a function of age. Not sure. I just know that I can stay with one vocation (I became a contractor so I didn't have to work at the same place all the time...but it is the same work) and I can live in the same place for almost 15 years and the need to always change environments has abated. And am glad for that! It can be exhausting.

So the environment wasn't what was causing the symptoms. It was your own addiction and mental issues. You could be anywhere and these would follow you.

What are you afraid of?

Is there an advantage to buying over renting? If not, then just keep renting, esp if you are not 100% sure about buying.

I felt the same way... I had a brief marriage in my 20s and then stayed single since. My friends were all married and having kids, buying houses all that. And I was single living in apts and moving all the time. Now, some of those friends are divorced and wished they had waited. I dunno what the ideal scenario is for me or you. I am comfortable with my house still and the need to change/move etc has really abated. Maybe when you become my age, things will settle for you as well. You can still explore and expand, yet have a base to work from.

Aellyce

>So the environment wasn't what was causing the symptoms. It was your own addiction and mental issues. You could be anywhere and these would follow you.

Yes, in psychology/neuroscience (these days), we call this temperament. Hardwired and quite stable.

>What are you afraid of?

I don't know, AF. I've listed a few things in my OP, pretty much as far as my current therapy experience has gotten with it also. What else? I always notice on SR especially, that we talk so much about love. Maybe that's what I am afraid of, certain forms of it. Despite of the daddy / mommy issues we all probably carry versions of, I think I do have a fear of lasting love (is that possible?).

>Is there an advantage to buying over renting? If not, then just keep renting, esp if you are not 100% sure about buying.

Yes I think my next choice may still be renting.

>I felt the same way... I had a brief marriage in my 20s and then stayed single since. My friends were all married and having kids, buying houses all that. And I was single living in apts and moving all the time. Now, some of those friends are divorced and wished they had waited. I dunno what the ideal scenario is for me or you. I am comfortable with my house still and the need to change/move etc has really abated. Maybe when you become my age, things will settle for you as well. You can still explore and expand, yet have a base to work from.[/QUOTE]

Yes. I do see potential in all of these stages.

For everyone: see - this is me. I perceive potential and possibilities in everything. I was like this already as a young kid. It's a weird sort of inspiration... not sure where it comes from, but when I am in a good place mentally (like now), it's like a source that can sometimes feed a lake so full that I want to end it all... but then restart with the same inspiration the day after I have no idea where these things come from, friends.

JanieJ

Can very much relate to that, Haennie.

I lived an itinerant life for 15 years. For a summer I lived with a bedroll and a guitar in a cave. I've lived in all kinds of dwellings, buses, tipis, horse- drawn wagons...not much into possessions either.

Settled down in a house when the kids came along. Am buying the house, because it's our family home.

But when my youngest had left, I'll rent the house out and go wandering again for awhile, I expect

It's nice to have the security of my own place, though, now I'm getting on a bit. Still, the free spirit in me is still there.

If I were like you, with no kids, I'd still be wandering...life is for living, you go for it girl. Xx

Gilmer

Just because you're not like everybody else doesn't mean you're abnormal!

There are a lot of upkeep headaches in owning a house. If you aren't concerned about getting a tax break, i advise you to just keep renting.

Aellyce

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg1jyL3cr60

zerothehero

Ultimately, only you can answer your questions for yourself, Haennie.

I know I avoided being "tied down," and for good reason. I value freedom and keeping options open. I'm an adventurer, even having spent entire summers solo backpacking in the wilderness and hitchhiking coast to coast... Then, I made a series of choices that made me feel "tied up," a prisoner in a life I built and for which I could only blame myself.

It is only in recent (sober) months, though, that I have come to realize the prison is in my mind. Sure, I am limited by external circumstances - buying a house that isn't selling - a career path in which I feel somewhat trapped because I am so close to being able to draw retirement - a marriage that isn't everything I hoped it would be - financial and filial obligations...

But all these things that trap me are also sources of freedom. The stability as I get older, the responsibility I have demonstrated by maintaining property, career, and financial security - these are opening up new possibilities as I get on in years.

I've never been one to find happiness in the pursuit and accumulation of material possessions. I have lived for experience.

But I am making a shift - slow and subtle - but increasingly tangible - and it's about internal versus external experience. Money will buy me a trip to a beach, but being on the beach does not in and of itself provide the adventure. Climbing a mountain or attending a workshop does not provide the adventure. It is my mind that brings the adventure to the experience whether I am on a beach, a mountaintop, or sitting next to the fire in my own library.

I share this, not because this thread is about me. This thread is about you and about your sense of freedom, adventure, and what that means to you. I share this because I've read enough from your perspective to suspect at 40 you are puzzling about whether or not those external adventures - that external freedom - is really that important to you anymore.

I suspect it is. I'm not going to lie, either. The world remains a big place with many opportunities. I'm not done wandering and wondering.

It's a matter of balance. Can you tie yourself down and still maintain a sense of freedom, whether it is with another human being, a building, or a job?

The ball is in your court.

SoberComposer

Cool, I am in neuroscience too!

I would offer more but our SR family has covered that very well

Aellyce

Thank you for the shares, guys.

Yes of course I wonder whether all this freedom and no ties is still important for me... I have been thinking about this for a good while now, especially now in sobriety. Active alcoholism was of course the most horrible experience for someone who appreciates freedom and non-attachment so much... But back to topic, I think I am probably too old now to expect to think and live very differently and be satisfied in the long run, although I would never deny the possibility. The one thing I can never decide easily is whether all this is really just the love of freedom and flexibility, or fear-based at least to a certain extent. I believe it's mixed.

It is absolutely true that the freedom of the mind (like Zero, this is what I truly care about and need of course) does not depend on external condition much given it's not a destructive, suffocating condition.

I was thinking yesterday after posting this thread that perhaps this recent wondering about the importance of freedom (on any level) is the manifestation of an unconscious feeling of loneliness deep down... I really don't know. Good question to my therapist I guess.

zerothehero

I have long been a loner. Even in marriage I am a loner. I go to music festivals alone, for example, and most often by choice. It's a chance to follow my bliss without feeling responsible for others' comfort and happiness. But sometimes I find myself alone - lonely - in the crowd.

I think freedom on a certain level is lonely; sometimes born of ego or self-importance or even selfishness. I am most lonely when I am most narcissistic.

At the same time, I often don't want or like to be needed. People are needy. They're difficult. I have few good friends because I am not always the best friend. People rely on me at work; that's enough. I am not always helpful with friends. Of course, most my friends over the years have had substance abuse issues. We didn't help each other much other than sharing substances...

One irony is that alcohol provides an illusion of freedom and non-attachment, when it can become the exact opposite. I remember hugging pints of beer like they were newborn babies. The scent of whiskey would reach out it's little fingers and try to grip my nose. A glass of zin would stare into my eyes... We loved and needed each other, or so I thought.

But I digress. I don't know about committing to home ownership, but you do seem torn when it comes to committed relationships. Freedom vs. commitment. Perhaps it's a matter of definition. Freedom to do or be what?

Right now I'm avoiding responsibilities, so I'll shut up. I have commitments...

Venecia

Hi, Haennie,

As others have said, only you can decide the answers to these questions. I wondered, though, about the connection between your fear of lasting love and your somewhat nomadic life. (I've got the same fear. Throw in loneliness and recovery from alcoholism and we might just turn this into the longest thread in SR history. ) I have sort of the opposite experience. Somewhat nomadic for a dozen or so years after college, but always within my native region. Now, I wish I could have a do-over to have tried living somewhere else. I'd like a do-over for plenty of other reasons but life doesn't work that way.

Buying a home isn't a lasting commitment, but it is a long one. That said, I bought my home 11 years ago and know that it is a good investment for me in the long run. The things others mentioned about equity are strong points. Beyond that, it still feels good to say "this place is mine."

Don't know if the feedback helps, but I wanted to let you know I get it.

V.

zerothehero

Buying a home is a lasting commitment if you dump too much equity into it and then it won't sell. Just sayin'...

Ptcapote

Hi Haennie, you and I could be twins. Seriously. My life has followed pretty much the same route as yours with the exception of a different career (writer/foreign affairs analyst which was also chosen because of the travel opportunities) and different city (Washington, DC) but otherwise, the same.

I will be 40 in two weeks and I find myself going back over my choices (also no husband or children) and my lifestyle as a nomad. I also don't own a home and still rent, something I hear about endlessly from my more "stable" friends. I have been to nearly 100 countries in my life and it is something I am eternally grateful for. I still get to travel routinely to cool places and do work that I generally feel is helpful to humanity (or at least not harmful) so I still feel satisfied in my career choice. I also crave freedom and have found its clearest expression through travel and my work.

I have had a few mini mid-life crises and questioned why the hell I can't be "normal" and want the stuff that other people want. I have also explored in therapy whether this lifestyle choice for me was/is a way of running from the present/responsibility as was my drinking much of the time.

From those crises I have given deep thought to settling down, buying a home, and maybe pursuig those things a 40 year old woman should "want." But here's the place I keep coming back to: All of those "normal" things make me feel trapped. Suffocated. I am sober now almost two years and that feeling has not changed, drunk or sober, since I was in my early 20s (pre alcoholic drinking then). I love to travel, I love the freedom that having the flexibility in my life has given me, I love the skill sets I have acquired from that much travel and getting to see the world outside of the world I was born into...in short, it is as much a part of me as a vital organ. I still question it sometimes but I am also learning, more and more, to cherish who and what I am. To be grateful for the amazing opportunities that life has handed me and the chances that I get to be present somewhere else to help or just bear witness in ways others don't get. Of course, they get other stuff...but that's their path.

I am finding, more and more, that as I just accept and integrate those parts of me, the whole picture becomes more clear and the questioning of the self, the issues of freedom and "normalcy," and what I want and why I want it...they just fall away.

Don't know if that was just a ramble or helpful in any way but I completely and totally identify with what you're saying/thinking.

Thank you so much for posting and, as usual with your posts, giving me something to think about.

Hugs.

Aellyce

Yes this feedback is very helpful, thanks everyone, again. The helpfulness, in part, is coming from not being alone with this thinking style and lifestyle on here. Haha, Pt, it does sound like we could be twins in terms of our preferences What is interesting in my 3D life is that people usually tend to be drawn to me for what they perceive as independence and being a free spirit... but sometimes they get equally annoyed not being able to get hold of me in conventional ways, not easily at least.

Yes of course ultimately it's me who needs to answer these questions and make decisions, but it's interesting to see others' perspectives, a few different perspectives. I am usually a very decisive person but I've learned that sometimes when I am uncertain, or when I get too entranced in my fixations, it really helps me to get other people's perspectives.

I also perceived myself as a loner in most of my life, and I don't typically feel lonely (suffer while being alone). I never had many friends or a large social circle either, but in my case, having at least 1-2 close friends is a strong and basic need and I have almost always had at least one good friend since my early childhood. I have many interests and it's easy for me to entertain myself, but I do love to share and exchange thoughts and experiences, I like intense interactions with someone I click with... I feel pretty miserable friendless and if there is no chance to interact (although I often am fine doing it purely virtually). As for being needed, I definitely don't enjoy a large dose of it but I do like being useful and helpful with things I am competent in. And I think I am generally a very good friend and pretty loyal in friendships that are not superficial and are interesting to me. At the same time, I am also aware that from relationship types, I value friendship so much because that is probably the most open and flexible construct and it does not usually require practical commitment.

Yes it's certainly true that I am torn when it comes to conventionally committed relationships. This is the area in my life and personality where I carry probably the strongest dichotomy: it's really two opposing forces, two orders of existence for me that has always been difficult to reconcile. It's like my intense desire and need for intimacy and connection is in direct conflict with some other parts of my personality - this makes it pretty much impossible for me to stay in relationships that operate by too traditional rules and expectations. But I've always managed to find highly compatible people, it's just that it won't be a conventional format. I am losing a lot of this unconventionality with aging, but there is still enough.

The freedom of mind is an interesting topic... while I tend to preach about freedom and independence, at the same time I am definitely one of the most obsession-prone people I have ever met. OK this is probably true for many of us on here with "addictive personalities", but I can get obsessed with anything that grabs my interest, including abstract concepts and theories, work, my love interest. I think that in part I try to maintain a certain distance (sometimes what I call "freedom" is nothing else but keeping things and people at arm's length as a defense) because when I am hooked on something, I am really hooked and things having such power over me scares the *** out of me. So then I want to run away and get immersed in it at the same time. That's literally being torn

The interesting bit is that despite all these dualities and seemingly contradictory motives, I would not want to be different or set my life differently even if I could start over... of course I have regrets like probably everyone, but I've found a pretty good level of peace with myself at this point of my life, something I definitely did not have when younger and certainly not as a heavy drinker. And for sure I am grateful for the many fascinating experiences, places, lessons, people, etc I've crossed path with in my life. I guess that's what matters more than anything else.

Zero's question about "Freedom to do or be what?" is a great one. I would say, freedom to be myself. I think this is probably something most or all of us human beings desire. Maybe become conscious of the desire at different times/phases of our lives.

bunnezjp

I would gather from the on your post that you should keep doing what you're doing, if it makes you happy.

Bunnez

Aellyce

Well I try to make it seem mostly positive, but the truth is, I am not so sure. This is what I need to find out, I believe.

herradura

Haennie,

Big post. Lots going on, and personally I am so befuddled with the whole introspective thing that I will not comment on any of it that I don't really understand. I do however understand home ownership. There are a couple of aspects to it: 1. the financial i.e as an investment 2. the fulfillment you get from owning something that is yours. They are not equal and often one can enhance the other and on the same note can detract from the other. The best situation is when you feel good about owning a house, and then sell it for a profit. Only you can decide if it is the right choice for you at this time to fulfill the need and desire of "owning your home". On the investment side you need to consider a few things. If you are going to finance it then there are some tax advantages to owning a house mostly the deduction of interest on the loan. Your payments can be fixed for the term of your loan, they will never go up except for the taxes you pay on it. That is a nice hedge. On the flip side, there is upkeep and when its broken, you get to fix it, or have it fixed. Watch enough TV and you will think everyone buys and makes money on homes. Not the case in the least. When you factor in the upkeep, the taxes, the insurance and the interest you pay, sometimes it does not work to your favor.
Personally, if I was single, 40 and had been mobile for a long time, I would not jump into buying a home. There is an idea that we need to lock in interest rates as they will soon be going up. They have been saying this for 4 years. INHO interest rates will not move too much in the near future as the U.S cant tolerate higher interest rates, we owe too much, or I should say our Government owes too much.

Anyway, I wish you well in your mind, and hope you can come to a positive solution. I never thought getting sober would be so damn complicated. I am not certain I want to find out why I am the way I am anymore. I am glad you do, and you obviously spend a lot of time thinking about it. Maybe that is the next step in the dance, I don't know. Good luck to you, and I thoroughly enjoy your posts!!