Thatdeliveryguy

This post is clearly written to the person that is agonizing over a relapse. IE they already drank, not the person thinking about drinking. Reread the post, drink, acknowledge it, but so what tiny bump in the road, get back to recovery. All the drama over a post, an opinion, one man. So sad, so many relapses happen because the traditional methods of recovery don't work ( not my opinion)! Maybe more ideas and varying opinions is exactly what this community needs.

jdooner

Perhaps this mindset speaks to your lack of success?

Croissant

Did you read ALL of the posts?

We are simply alcoholics all sharing our own experience, as you are. All valid.

I cannot minimise relapse in my mind. To do that is DANGEROUS thinking.

For me.

RobbyRobot

Recovery isn't about taking relapses in stride as bumps on the road. Some people have died while in relapse. Some people have also caused others serious harm and death too while in relapse. Drinking is drinking. Recovery isn't about relapsing. Period.

Damn right people feel guilty about relapsing. And why not? Why think otherwise? It is a myth that feeling bad about relapsing causes relapses, imo. Relapses happen because recovery isn't happening. It's true that people can drink on their feelings, whatever those feelings may be negative or positive, but this does not mean that avoiding feelings of responsibility for relapsing somehow prevents relapsing.

This isn't more drama over a post either. It seems to me TDG that you have justified away your recovery responsibilities by giving yourself a backdoor exit on facing your own feelings on relapsing.

slipped

Because of the kindling effect my thoughts are- if you aren't serious about quitting, you are doing yourself more harm than good by even trying.

LBrain

I didn't read every post - a few.

My thinking is that "chronic relapsers," for whatever reason, come to expect it. It is just part of the plan. It's like, "I can relapse because I know I can quit again." It's an excuse. That kind of thinking -just my opinion, not pointing fingers - leads to failure. Sooner or later the "I can quit again" mentality will be pushed aside. And more than likely turn into a defeatist attitude of why bother trying anymore.
Yes, forgive yourself and move on. Work harder next time and do what needs to be done. But with the idea that you cannot let this happen again. If you believe it is beyond your control to prevent relapse, I'm going to throw the BS flag.
But that's just me. I'm only one person with one opinion.
Am I a one chip wonder? I'll get back to you on that in forty years.

Imabuleva

Relapse is hell. That's all I have to say.

KAD

Many never get around to starting that sober journey again. Some don't live to even try. Relapsing is serious business. I've done it many, many times but never once was I pleased with myself for it. I tried to feel about it as you are suggesting and thinking, "So what? I can get sober again whenever I want." But each and every relapse got more and more miserable, as did the withdrawals. As someone else here said, I don't think I have it in me to go through detox again. I'm coming up on 2 months sober this Thursday and for the first time in my life, I see that drinking again is no longer an option. To be honest, that doesn't exactly make me feel good either, because I relied on that as the ol' standby for 26 years. I never expected to feel anxiety over the fact that I really cannot drink anymore! Now I know it is the cause of so much pain, loss, and suffering in my life and has nothing to offer but more of the same.

alphaomega

What this post says to me is you are nowhere near being serious about quitting for good.

Escape Clause Du Jour.

We get it TDG. We are alcoholics. Active alcoholism is the mental equivalent of dancing with the devil in pale moonlight. The dancing and frivolity is so lovely.

That is until you have to sign on the dotted line.

My last "relapse" (read: I drank because I wanted to) resulted in temporary alcoholic neuropathy.

Not sure how that could or should be taken lightly and simply moved on from (?)

No, relapse is mother loving serious business.

And some of us don't or wont make it back.

Imabuleva

I also get symptoms of alcoholic neuropathy when I withdraw, AO.

ForgetfulKevin

Advice from a chronic relapser? I say so what. I won't give it another thought.

It's advice from the chronically sober that I'm here for.

Nowsthetime

Hello:

I think the TDG was trying to be encouraging, however, it did sound a little nonchalant and dismissive. Someone else said that your attitude predicts your results.

I think we need to be strict with ourselves. It is like with a child. If you expect something from him/her, they are more prone to deliver, they feel accountable, there is a standard set and there is a goal to meet it. Set high standard for yourself. It will make you better. I believe that it is important to feel the negative consequences of relapsing because it demonstrates and confirms why you H-A-V-E T-O Q-U-I-T! (I spelled it like that because I want to be really clear, there is no way around it.) This is a personal battle so each of us is accountable. A little tough love with one-self goes a long way.

This is the first time that I officially quit and I do not expect to EVER drink again. I live by today, I don't know what's going to happen but the one thing that I can control and that I will make happen is that I will never drink again.

5 months on the 16Th.

EndGameNYC

I imagine, TDG, that your perspective on relapsing, recovery and alcoholism will mature as you put together some long-term sobriety. Offering bold statements that seemingly accrue their validity and power by virtue of being nothing more than "unconventional" are generally unhelpful. This is not to say that people who are new to sobriety have nothing to offer, but some of the best advice comes from those who've put the time, the energy and the work into building better lives.

You might consider working on your own recovery rather than recommending "unconventional" strategies to those who are also still struggling.

Soberpotamus

Many people will also tell you that those feelings of guilt, self-hate, etc were the catalyst to lasting sobriety. I know for me, that's the way it happened. I was sick of what I was doing to myself, my life, and those I care for. How else are we going to make permanent change unless we are fed up, sick of ourselves, our actions and feel genuine guilt?

Thatdeliveryguy

I am not planning relapse, have no desire to relapse and am working a very stringent program for myself. Meeting nightly and multiple times on the weekend. I've been active in my recover this time, IE meetings ( with a well known program), pursuing counseling, practicing HALT, and working on anxiety and issues I have with anger. All I was telling people is don't dwell on relapse, relapse can lead to death ( never said I didn't believe that), but no need to live in the past. Look forward, don't create a worse situation then you are already in, I know people have stong opinions about this, I know many of you are angry I said this, but have you ever in your life ( I have in mine) drank because you relapsed and felt you could never start sobriety again. It was intended as positive message, not a negative one. Sobriety is about making decisions and change. If you go back to the past and relapse ( have a beer or something) think about what you're doing and stop. Don't let that despair control you're next decision, that is all that was meant ever.

Maybe what I said wasn't clear, and if it wasn't I am sorry. Yes I am early in recovery given the scheme of things, but I know people in the recovery community, psychological community and otherwise that would not disagree with me. As much as I would like to claim this line of thinking as my own, it most certainly isn't! Forgiven oneself for transgressions is paramount to recovery. Think of the converse to saying ok I drank, I need to move on..... Would you tell a relapser you're an absolute failure and, to hell with you! I think not, what is the middle ground, how about acceptance and a resolution to start again just maybe...

RobbyRobot

The times of my quitting on staying quit, for whatever reasons, was never about me living in my past. Really, I didn't stay quit because my so-called sobriety wasn't worth the effort required to stay quit. Such a lousy sobriety sucked big time, and this was enough of a justification to pickup that drink. I don't really think its complicated why or how people quit on themselves. Despair and fear, fed by selfishness, can easily be enough to destroy lives thru drink. Its really about living so wretchedly in the present, that drinking once again becomes a go-to solution even though such a solution is pathetically unreasonable when summed up against our past drunken experiences.

I don't think a middle-ground is required to start again with recovery. There is nothing in support of recovery that requires us to trash talk those who already suffer enough as to have a relapse. It wasn't until I refused to quit on myself that I became successful in staying quit. This did not mean I fell in love with sobriety either, lol. In fact, I hated sobriety almost as much as I hated being drunk. I finally didn't want to be a dead drunk, and it came as no surprise to me I was going to be real dead and hopelessly drunk sooner than later if I didn't quit drinking.

The moment we justify our "relapses" as anything that gives us a break, that offers us a reasonable escape, that provides for us a kind of appreciation that a relapse is understandable -- in that same moment we have begun down a slippery slope of once again finding sobriety a difficult struggle to live with in the present moments of our lives. This if continued can absolutely result in misery. Much can be done in recovery to prevent such misery, and in this we can sustain a durable sobriety.

I'm not really speaking for others here though. I know I failed at staying quit for six years before I finally succeeded. Once I did succeed, I haven't again failed at staying quit for 33+ years now, so for me, relapsing was absolutely a fail on my part to stay quit. I don't need to put lipstick on my past experiences to appreciate my past history. For me, failure is not a dirty word or experience, even though failure totally sucks, nonetheless without failures I could never enjoy my success in life, so its all essential sums of a well lived life, imo.

LadyinBC

Okay I am just speaking for me here, but I relapsed simply because I wasn't ready to quit drinking. No recovery method was going to work for me as long as I wanted to keep drinking. And believe me I even blamed those methods for my drinking. I used pretty well any excuse to drink. Heck I didn't even have to have an excuse.

You are going to get a wide variety of opinions when you start a thread like this. At the end of the day you are not obligated to agree with them. Take what you need from the responses and leave the rest.

This is your recovery and you have to take your own journey and find your own way. I certainly had to.

MelindaFlowers

Oh my Gosh,

I was about to add my post when I read that LadyinBC summed up just what I was thinking. Great post. From around 2004 to 2014 it was always "so what? It was only the last two years that I really knew that I had to stop.

For me, relapses lost their appeal or "fun" or "escape" when the daily withdrawals became unbearable. Or maybe it was after my blood work came back with scary results. Either way, relapses seemed like a fun escape, or "doable" at least, until I was honestly done drinking. I used to even look forward to them! Oh, those days are a thing of the past. I simply got too sick.

OldSkool

Hey,
I know the feelin. fall off the wagon, get back on again. Its all you can do.
Keep on tryin. Its not a perfect world, or there wouldnt be alcoholics.
God Bless

LBrain

TDG, thanks for bringing this discussion to the table.