woman versus women
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Leeds
Posts: 399
Originally Posted by GetMeOut 
A man might break another man's face, but a woman will slowly insert a knife into your heart.
Then give it a few twists.
Then give it a few twists.
I'll take that over years of psychological warfare.
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
Originally Posted by haennie
Also, what you are saying about your brain being "mush" (I read similar things from you in various posts) may be related to the fact that you have a generally very active mind and you like to stimulate it even further. If this rings true, perhaps you would benefit a lot from learning new ways to relax now, without drugs and alcohol, naturally. This area is definitely also an issue for me, has always been. I often find it very difficult to do this, to let go of my thoughts and constant analyzing, and the curiosity that drives it... it's hard in part because these features have also served me so well in many areas throughout my life... but they also get in the way often. So I have to work on this if I want to make serious improvements in my life. Think less.... ha!
I resonate deeply with all that...especially with the bolded part.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by Nuudawn
Picking up what you're throwing down here haennie...
I resonate deeply with all that...especially with the bolded part.
I resonate deeply with all that...especially with the bolded part.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 668
Originally Posted by haennie
Yes, sometimes I say that my addiction problem primarily is not alcohol, that's just one of the manifestations. What I'm primarily addicted to is intensity and novelty.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by Oldselfagain
I would imagine the "novelty" of being silly drink and dreadfully hungover would wear off pretty quickly.
pray for strength
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New England
Posts: 2,414
How do you feel about making friends with some people who don't have children? Many of them will have a completely different perspective and won't be bogged down in all that crap. Thanks Readerbaby.
Making friends with other interests who do not have children sounds great to me. Many who do not have children are currently 'trying' and so the conversations can be a little heavy at times, although very beneficial for connection. Just emailed a true gem of a friend in this boat to go for coffee today.
Let me start telling you that based on your description, you live a very different lifestyle than I do - I don't have kids, am not married, and am bi. But maybe you find my experience interesting. Thanks Haennie.
Always find your experience interesting, without exception.
If you feel uncomfortable in/about groups of women - why do you need to be in such groups at all?
Individually, as a woman, I never really cared as much. I could live and die pursuing groups within my comfort zone. As a mother, the ante is up...as I feel with certainty that I cannot do 'motherhood' alone and need other women to raise these girls of mine (and NOT necessarily mothers...I realize). A meet-up will be created by me to support women in general and not be disparaging of mothers in particular. Create my own group within a group. This thread helps me immensely with figuring out how to word the description.
I can tell following your posts that you are probably someone with great social skills and quite extroverted.
Hah! I'm actually deeply introverted naturally and have been since my earliest memories. My first school experiences were in a foreign country...and being part of the group of other girls has almost always taken 'work'. Holing myself away to study and read was my personal activity of choice in my early 20s...many decisions from there were intentionally made to get myself out of that comfort zone and into the world. That said, whenever I travel, reading, coffee, observation and asking questions are still my favorite activities and I have met a lot of interesting people this way.
I wish I had some words to wisdom for you. Thanks Ruby.
Ruby, you do have words of wisdom. When I say that I love to read your posts, I mean it. It may be the forums here, yes, and not face to face, but your honesty with experience is genuine, valued and priceless. Tempera paint is on my 'list' of great experiences to offer my kiddos. Reminds me of a rainy day with a friend when we were five yrs old and 'washed' the streets with Dawn soap. Beautifully bubbly puddles. You and I could probably duke it out pretty well in real life, but I would be more than happy to come hang out at your house while the kids destroy something and talk about your work, food and cleaning (toilets for me).
ooooh I can relate to this post. This is all the beginning for me and I have already shot myself in the foot as far as the mother's go in my neighbourhood. Thanks cusper.
Beginning for me as well And in another post I wrote about a 2am drunken text I sent out to a bunch of great women, 2 of whom actually live in my neighborhood. When I woke up the next morning I shook my head in horror as I read that I had expressed via urgent text reason to discuss a crocodile in the grass with these women. Oh the horror. The OP actually suggested that if I live in Florida the text would not be such a bad thing...which got me rolling on the floor. No, I do not live in Florida. And the text was such a bad thing. Enough time has passed that these already amazing women have found it in their hearts to 'let it go'. This is a great sign and reminder of bad mistakes while under the influence which definitely have not helped my confidence with groups of women. Booze bad.
Well...I'm a woman...and I love ya!...Yes..there are women who make me cringe. Met a lot of men who have too. And yes, we can be our own worst enemy (meow, meow, meow)...But alot of us are fabulous...Troubled? Broken in some places...but fabulous. Thanks NuuDawn
I agree Nuu. Your perspective is probably (just) one of the reasons I value your posts so much. It is obvious that you embrace humanity in an inclusive way. You have so much to offer and I am glad you are here...love ya as well!
On a side note: once during a moment of silence when the tension between two factions within a group of women was escalating to almost hair-pulling...I said, "meow, meow Lady Elaine". Oops. That did not help. Note taken. I used to love watching Mr. Rogers...when I was actually a child I still love to laugh now though.
I was a military wife for many, many years and that involved being pulled out of one situation and moved into another, over and over again. In my thirties, my low self-esteem played havoc with relationships with other women. I had friends, but was also questioning myself. In recovery, I have had a few amazing friendships with women who were mentors and teachers. This happened when I let go of expectations of myself and others and where the relationship would go. I just let things unfold and it worked. Thanks Anna.
Wise beyond words. And in a way, your post gives me permission to let go of the struggle and 'let things unfold'. Thanks again, Anna. I actually need to chill out a bit. Having little girls makes me feel pressure to have a network and understanding in place (as a woman)...but it cannot be forced and I need to accept this. BTW - your post reminds me of one of my favorite movies of all time..."Blue Sky" with Jessica Lange and Tommy Lee Jones. I saw it when I was totally unable to have any context for understanding a lot of the themes but really appreciated it anyway. I'm inspired to watch it again and will probably have a good cry. Great movie.
Hi there! Mom of three, I am 43. I have found more and more that the few other girls I relate to are all I need! I Found myself saying no to the mom crews that just flat out did not gel with me. The older I get, the less I care about the competition and actually get a kick out of the ridiculousness. I am known to speak my mind and go where I want and NOT go where I want, that was the secret! It is all garbage and the women who operate like that are insecure, vapid and wildly uninteresting. Being in a circle like that can't be satisfying or comforting in any way. They usually implode with cannabalism anyway. Walk your own way, beat your drum and hold your head high. In ten years you won't give a rats ass! Thanks EJ.
OMG. Refrigerator material for sure. Your post is very reassuring and just flat out hilarious. When I started this thread I was totally unsure of the landscape I have been dealing with...inherently and then also because I have been drinking. By the time I finished reading all the posts, including yours, I can honestly say that I am feeling pretty good about putting this thread out there. And feeling much better about where I am and where I am going. "They usually implode with cannabalism"...priceless. It is a very specific type of mean girl group then that persists. This did happen all around me thus far in life and right now is no different, eh?
So, I am feeling ridiculously grateful for all your responses. My heart is lighter. Groups of women (and men, no discounting) are indeed quite supportive. Just have to find the right ones and keep trusting my own instincts! More thanks to come after another cup of coffee and emails.
and group hugs.
Making friends with other interests who do not have children sounds great to me. Many who do not have children are currently 'trying' and so the conversations can be a little heavy at times, although very beneficial for connection. Just emailed a true gem of a friend in this boat to go for coffee today.
Let me start telling you that based on your description, you live a very different lifestyle than I do - I don't have kids, am not married, and am bi. But maybe you find my experience interesting. Thanks Haennie.
Always find your experience interesting, without exception.
If you feel uncomfortable in/about groups of women - why do you need to be in such groups at all?
Individually, as a woman, I never really cared as much. I could live and die pursuing groups within my comfort zone. As a mother, the ante is up...as I feel with certainty that I cannot do 'motherhood' alone and need other women to raise these girls of mine (and NOT necessarily mothers...I realize). A meet-up will be created by me to support women in general and not be disparaging of mothers in particular. Create my own group within a group. This thread helps me immensely with figuring out how to word the description.
I can tell following your posts that you are probably someone with great social skills and quite extroverted.
Hah! I'm actually deeply introverted naturally and have been since my earliest memories. My first school experiences were in a foreign country...and being part of the group of other girls has almost always taken 'work'. Holing myself away to study and read was my personal activity of choice in my early 20s...many decisions from there were intentionally made to get myself out of that comfort zone and into the world. That said, whenever I travel, reading, coffee, observation and asking questions are still my favorite activities and I have met a lot of interesting people this way.
I wish I had some words to wisdom for you. Thanks Ruby.
Ruby, you do have words of wisdom. When I say that I love to read your posts, I mean it. It may be the forums here, yes, and not face to face, but your honesty with experience is genuine, valued and priceless. Tempera paint is on my 'list' of great experiences to offer my kiddos. Reminds me of a rainy day with a friend when we were five yrs old and 'washed' the streets with Dawn soap. Beautifully bubbly puddles. You and I could probably duke it out pretty well in real life, but I would be more than happy to come hang out at your house while the kids destroy something and talk about your work, food and cleaning (toilets for me).
ooooh I can relate to this post. This is all the beginning for me and I have already shot myself in the foot as far as the mother's go in my neighbourhood. Thanks cusper.
Beginning for me as well
And in another post I wrote about a 2am drunken text I sent out to a bunch of great women, 2 of whom actually live in my neighborhood. When I woke up the next morning I shook my head in horror as I read that I had expressed via urgent text reason to discuss a crocodile in the grass with these women. Oh the horror. The OP actually suggested that if I live in Florida the text would not be such a bad thing...which got me rolling on the floor. No, I do not live in Florida. And the text was such a bad thing. Enough time has passed that these already amazing women have found it in their hearts to 'let it go'. This is a great sign and reminder of bad mistakes while under the influence which definitely have not helped my confidence with groups of women. Booze bad.Well...I'm a woman...and I love ya!...Yes..there are women who make me cringe. Met a lot of men who have too. And yes, we can be our own worst enemy (meow, meow, meow)...But alot of us are fabulous...Troubled? Broken in some places...but fabulous. Thanks NuuDawn
I agree Nuu. Your perspective is probably (just) one of the reasons I value your posts so much. It is obvious that you embrace humanity in an inclusive way. You have so much to offer and I am glad you are here...love ya as well!
On a side note: once during a moment of silence when the tension between two factions within a group of women was escalating to almost hair-pulling...I said, "meow, meow Lady Elaine". Oops. That did not help. Note taken. I used to love watching Mr. Rogers...when I was actually a child
I still love to laugh now though.I was a military wife for many, many years and that involved being pulled out of one situation and moved into another, over and over again. In my thirties, my low self-esteem played havoc with relationships with other women. I had friends, but was also questioning myself. In recovery, I have had a few amazing friendships with women who were mentors and teachers. This happened when I let go of expectations of myself and others and where the relationship would go. I just let things unfold and it worked. Thanks Anna.
Wise beyond words. And in a way, your post gives me permission to let go of the struggle and 'let things unfold'. Thanks again, Anna. I actually need to chill out a bit. Having little girls makes me feel pressure to have a network and understanding in place (as a woman)...but it cannot be forced and I need to accept this. BTW - your post reminds me of one of my favorite movies of all time..."Blue Sky" with Jessica Lange and Tommy Lee Jones. I saw it when I was totally unable to have any context for understanding a lot of the themes but really appreciated it anyway. I'm inspired to watch it again and will probably have a good cry. Great movie.
Hi there! Mom of three, I am 43. I have found more and more that the few other girls I relate to are all I need! I Found myself saying no to the mom crews that just flat out did not gel with me. The older I get, the less I care about the competition and actually get a kick out of the ridiculousness. I am known to speak my mind and go where I want and NOT go where I want, that was the secret! It is all garbage and the women who operate like that are insecure, vapid and wildly uninteresting. Being in a circle like that can't be satisfying or comforting in any way. They usually implode with cannabalism anyway. Walk your own way, beat your drum and hold your head high. In ten years you won't give a rats ass! Thanks EJ.
OMG. Refrigerator material for sure. Your post is very reassuring and just flat out hilarious. When I started this thread I was totally unsure of the landscape I have been dealing with...inherently and then also because I have been drinking. By the time I finished reading all the posts, including yours, I can honestly say that I am feeling pretty good about putting this thread out there. And feeling much better about where I am and where I am going. "They usually implode with cannabalism"...priceless. It is a very specific type of mean girl group then that persists. This did happen all around me thus far in life and right now is no different, eh?
So, I am feeling ridiculously grateful for all your responses. My heart is lighter. Groups of women (and men, no discounting) are indeed quite supportive. Just have to find the right ones and keep trusting my own instincts! More thanks to come after another cup of coffee and emails.
and group hugs.
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
Originally Posted by LeTheVerte
once during a moment of silence when the tension between two factions within a group of women was escalating to almost hair-pulling...I said, "meow, meow Lady Elaine".
I am suddenly longing for a resurrection of the Algonquin Round Table a la Dorothy Parker...with a sobriety twist.
I would so save your seat.
pray for strength
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New England
Posts: 2,414
I think you haven't found your group yet Thanks GotGrace.
Yes, I agree. I'm not going to force it among groups which I already find to be 'not nice' to other women. But I am more determined now to spend time bringing women together...great women out there and probably not mingling among the meanies, I realize. Sincere thanks for the reassurance. Often times I have to mingle with certain groups (because of my husband's choice of work)...but I will just approach it for what it is. A mingle. A sober mingle for me, that is. Considering that most everyone is drinking during these mingles it is a very real possibility that others are not so comfortable. When I have to create a mingle from now on, I will keep sober comfort for all in mind as well.
I can see you as Nuudawn sees you. I think you are very smart, interesting and have a sense of humor. You convey an air of being an easy, confident and thoughtful conversationalist. Thanks again Ruby.
Thanks again Ruby and Nuu. I'll take these compliments because 1) I am learning to absorb more good things and let go of more of the unnecessary words and 2) These things are true. Thanks. 3) finding and accepting the good in myself does help me find and accept the good in others. And that is good conversation as well.
I'd probably be the person who bugs the heck out of you if we talked in real life, or is that my own insecurity talking?
Nope, you do not bug me and yep, that is your own insecurity talking, Ruby. I admire that you regularly put your honest thoughts out there...this takes guts. You are a very thoughtful and supportive person as well. And I am also one of those women that LOVES getting older...because it always gets better. Not easier, or more straightforward always, but better. YaY!
So I just stay quiet and wait out the torture! Thanks Gilmer.
I do this as well and it often just feels like wasted time. Like, we can all be so useful for each other during this time of life if we tried a little bit harder. And then I remember that the 'kum ba ya' moments are not necessarily valuable to some as they are for me. It is telling that I have a hard time just 'chilling' among people. 'Chilling' happens best for me while alone.
Your C.S.Lewis quote is fantastic. Going on the fridge as a daily reminder.
I did get to observe both first and second hand those moms who got shut out. The common factors were:
- they talked only about themselves
- they bragged about their family of origin or husband
- they were overly competitive
- they never asked others how they were doing
- their kids were brats Thanks Johnston.
In all my life I have never understood how the above 'they's quite happen. My guess is that 'they' are the one's who need true friends more than anyone. I do not fit into the target shut out group that you describe, but it is interesting to think about when thinking about woman versus women. Obviously, I do fit in the women group somewhere, even when I cannot see exactly where.
Yes, I agree. I'm not going to force it among groups which I already find to be 'not nice' to other women. But I am more determined now to spend time bringing women together...great women out there and probably not mingling among the meanies, I realize. Sincere thanks for the reassurance. Often times I have to mingle with certain groups (because of my husband's choice of work)...but I will just approach it for what it is. A mingle. A sober mingle for me, that is. Considering that most everyone is drinking during these mingles it is a very real possibility that others are not so comfortable. When I have to create a mingle from now on, I will keep sober comfort for all in mind as well.
I can see you as Nuudawn sees you. I think you are very smart, interesting and have a sense of humor. You convey an air of being an easy, confident and thoughtful conversationalist. Thanks again Ruby.
Thanks again Ruby and Nuu. I'll take these compliments because 1) I am learning to absorb more good things and let go of more of the unnecessary words and 2) These things are true. Thanks. 3) finding and accepting the good in myself does help me find and accept the good in others. And that is good conversation as well.
I'd probably be the person who bugs the heck out of you if we talked in real life, or is that my own insecurity talking?
Nope, you do not bug me and yep, that is your own insecurity talking, Ruby. I admire that you regularly put your honest thoughts out there...this takes guts. You are a very thoughtful and supportive person as well. And I am also one of those women that LOVES getting older...because it always gets better. Not easier, or more straightforward always, but better. YaY!
So I just stay quiet and wait out the torture! Thanks Gilmer.
I do this as well and it often just feels like wasted time. Like, we can all be so useful for each other during this time of life if we tried a little bit harder. And then I remember that the 'kum ba ya' moments are not necessarily valuable to some as they are for me. It is telling that I have a hard time just 'chilling' among people. 'Chilling' happens best for me while alone.
Your C.S.Lewis quote is fantastic. Going on the fridge as a daily reminder.
I did get to observe both first and second hand those moms who got shut out. The common factors were:
- they talked only about themselves
- they bragged about their family of origin or husband
- they were overly competitive
- they never asked others how they were doing
- their kids were brats Thanks Johnston.
In all my life I have never understood how the above 'they's quite happen. My guess is that 'they' are the one's who need true friends more than anyone. I do not fit into the target shut out group that you describe, but it is interesting to think about when thinking about woman versus women. Obviously, I do fit in the women group somewhere, even when I cannot see exactly where.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 9,029
"happy to come hang out at your house while the kids destroy something and talk about your work, food and cleaning (toilets for me)"
LTV, the feeling is mutual, I love reading your posts and always learn something. This has me laughing with tears in my eyes. Plenty of destruction. You have made my afternoon with that.
I love the idea of bubbly puddles.
BTW what does your refrigerator look like? I'm running out of exterior space on mine. "OMG. Refrigerator material for sure."
LTV, the feeling is mutual, I love reading your posts and always learn something. This has me laughing with tears in my eyes. Plenty of destruction. You have made my afternoon with that.
I love the idea of bubbly puddles.
BTW what does your refrigerator look like? I'm running out of exterior space on mine. "OMG. Refrigerator material for sure."
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
Just had to share this with you LeTheVerte as it reminded me of something you said about "mushy brain" and haennie's note that it was not the first time you have mentioned it.
I am currently reading The Dance of Anger..and the following jumped off the page at me ..in thinking of you and in thinking of myself and there are often times when emotionally charged that I feel like a blithering idiot.
"Feeling fuzzy-headed, inarticulate, and not so smart are common reactions experienced by women as we struggle to take a stand on our behalf. It is not just anger and fighting that we learn to fear; we avoid asking precise questions and making clear statements when we unconsciously suspect that doing so would expose our differences, make the other person feel uncomfortable and leave us standing alone"
I am currently reading The Dance of Anger..and the following jumped off the page at me ..in thinking of you and in thinking of myself and there are often times when emotionally charged that I feel like a blithering idiot.
"Feeling fuzzy-headed, inarticulate, and not so smart are common reactions experienced by women as we struggle to take a stand on our behalf. It is not just anger and fighting that we learn to fear; we avoid asking precise questions and making clear statements when we unconsciously suspect that doing so would expose our differences, make the other person feel uncomfortable and leave us standing alone"
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,097
Originally Posted by Johnston
Saw some of this when the kids were younger and my wife hung out with the other moms. She never had a problem because she's pretty socially adept and doesn't take s**t from people. However, I did get to observe both first and second hand those moms who got shut out. The common factors were:
- they talked only about themselves
- they bragged about their family of origin or husband
- they were overly competitive
- they never asked others how they were doing
- their kids were brats
- they talked only about themselves
- they bragged about their family of origin or husband
- they were overly competitive
- they never asked others how they were doing
- their kids were brats
When I first had my son I was lonely,didn't know anyone where I lived and had finished work so joined baby groups.How naive I was then thinking everyone would just be lovely and friendly.
Oh the question-"what does you husband do?" The competition - who has the biggest house, earns the most money, whose husband has the best career
It really is all just incredibly false and oneupmanship. I often left feeling really bad and insecure.
I would agree with a couple of things others have said
- You haven't met the 'right' fit for you yet and this happened for me when I just sat back and let it happen naturally with no expectations
- you do have to get on with other mums whose children your child plays with but this can be done quietly and at a distance.
-Be pleasant, smile but stay back a bit-people will come to you. They will wonder about you and want a bit more. Don't let them control you
- Many are just in 'the' group so as not to be outside it but don't really like it
-I'm sure there are many mums who are shy,nervous and also feel out of place.M aybe look to smile at and speak with them
I was lucky enough to move to a lovely new area soon after I got sober and effectively started a new life. One of the biggest shocks I got at the school gates was that no one asked me what my husband did for a living,what I did or how much my house was worth
Recovering ostrich
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Posts: 2,551
I wasn't sure what I would find when I opened this thread lol
I'm with you... I've never been the mommy crowd, even when my son was young. I was at a dinner not too long ago with other women who have small kids and they were saying the different types of child rearing theories and who jones they agreed with. :-|
I have found that I get along best with guys and with my family and I'm good there! I will say that I attend women's meetings because there is something about another alcoholic mom that is a bonding experience but I wouldn't say that I have friends from those meetings, if that makes sense.
I'm with you... I've never been the mommy crowd, even when my son was young. I was at a dinner not too long ago with other women who have small kids and they were saying the different types of child rearing theories and who jones they agreed with. :-|
I have found that I get along best with guys and with my family and I'm good there! I will say that I attend women's meetings because there is something about another alcoholic mom that is a bonding experience but I wouldn't say that I have friends from those meetings, if that makes sense.
pray for strength
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New England
Posts: 2,414
Originally Posted by mecanix
As a book suggestion "friends and enemies" by Dorothy Rowe is an interesting read.
pray for strength
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New England
Posts: 2,414
Haennie...all of what you write on SR is thought provoking. Period. Whether intended to be or not. If you have an online blog please do not reveal where it is as one could make thinking the thoughts a full-time undertaking (semi-kidding of course).
While we have our differences, the above observations are indeed similar and true. Alcohol acted as a 'governor' (golf cart reference) for my head in many social situations. None more important than those which cause me great discomfort or where my brain heads way out there.
When shopping at the market today, mulling the posts, I had some great realizations about competition and values. I understand my values strongly regarding competition involving athletics and information but not necessarily within social scenarios...especially with other women. It is not enough to say I am not socially competitive because that is incomplete thinking. I value social competition when the playing field is even...and when does this occur? Historically, along the same lines, I do not fight for affection and this has been a hot topic among friends. Yet, I fight for true love within relationships and family.
The 'mush' brain comes from spending too much time with little kids. They like to repeat things ad nauseum and I do not. There is no such thing as argument finality with an almost four year old - the arguments are mind numbing, repetitive and often not stimulating. Right now their favorite book at the end of the day is 'Journey' - a book with beautiful pictures and NO WORDS. The only way to stop the onslaught of questions is by changing up the story so throughly that they confuse themselves trying to keep up and agree to go the 'eff' to sleep ("Go the f*$# To Sleep" is a great 'kids' book - check it out). By the time I am done and sit to read SR, my brain is mush. Going back to work (outside of the house...because right now I work at night, at home) will be a reprieve. And I am not really sleeping well these days so I generally flatline easily.
Thanks Haennie for your insight. And everyone! Now I can get my money's worth at the therapist this Thursday Glad you all do not know where to send a bill.
Originally Posted by haennie
...what you are saying about your brain being "mush" (I read similar things from you in various posts) may be related to the fact that you have a generally very active mind and you like to stimulate it even further. If this rings true, perhaps you would benefit a lot from learning new ways to relax now, without drugs and alcohol, naturally. This area is definitely also an issue for me, has always been. I often find it very difficult to do this, to let go of my thoughts and constant analyzing, and the curiosity that drives it... it's hard in part because these features have also served me so well in many areas throughout my life... but they also get in the way often. So I have to work on this if I want to make serious improvements in my life. Think less.... ha!
When shopping at the market today, mulling the posts, I had some great realizations about competition and values. I understand my values strongly regarding competition involving athletics and information but not necessarily within social scenarios...especially with other women. It is not enough to say I am not socially competitive because that is incomplete thinking. I value social competition when the playing field is even...and when does this occur? Historically, along the same lines, I do not fight for affection and this has been a hot topic among friends. Yet, I fight for true love within relationships and family.
The 'mush' brain comes from spending too much time with little kids. They like to repeat things ad nauseum and I do not. There is no such thing as argument finality with an almost four year old - the arguments are mind numbing, repetitive and often not stimulating. Right now their favorite book at the end of the day is 'Journey' - a book with beautiful pictures and NO WORDS. The only way to stop the onslaught of questions is by changing up the story so throughly that they confuse themselves trying to keep up and agree to go the 'eff' to sleep ("Go the f*$# To Sleep" is a great 'kids' book - check it out). By the time I am done and sit to read SR, my brain is mush. Going back to work (outside of the house...because right now I work at night, at home) will be a reprieve. And I am not really sleeping well these days so I generally flatline easily.
Thanks Haennie for your insight. And everyone! Now I can get my money's worth at the therapist this Thursday
Glad you all do not know where to send a bill. Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: US
Posts: 556
I figured out eventually that I could opt out of the toxic mommyverse - making connections with a few women and keeping up with them on a more individual basis. Yes, for sure, I missed out on some social events, and I suppose my kids missed out on related social opportunities, but from where I sit, it was well worth not getting my time and sense of self worth tied up with people I just didn't like. And bonus - I never ever had to sit through a tupperware/candle/intimate apparel/jewelry "party" (hard sell event) in my entire motherhood career!
But I also discovered over time that most of these people are really just people too. If I get them out of the crowd, connecting is easier and I ended up making some very unlikely friends.
But I also discovered over time that most of these people are really just people too. If I get them out of the crowd, connecting is easier and I ended up making some very unlikely friends.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 9,029
I almost spit up my coffee when I read your reference to the "go the eff to sleep" book. I laughed until I cried when I read it. It is so very close to home. And the kids repeating themselves ad nauseum. If my daughter asks "but whyyyyy?" One more time I will scream. She does it especially because she knows it's annoying. That is what makes me want to scream.
I want to joint the sober Dorothy Parker table Nuu Dawn is setting up. I bought a Dorothy Parker stories book. It have not yet read it.
I think that the points on the moms outside the circle is interesting and I like the point that these may be some of the women who need the hand of friendship extended. I sometimes talk too much about me. And I forget to ask people how they are doing. I get nervous and feel awkward and talk about what I know which is me. And then I get insecure that I'm talking too much. I am always still learning social cues and nuances. Sometimes when asking people how they are doing I think I sound fake and unsure whether it's any of my business so I don't do it. Totally forgetting that the other person wants to be at ease as well. Live and learn.
Good things to think about.
I want to joint the sober Dorothy Parker table Nuu Dawn is setting up. I bought a Dorothy Parker stories book. It have not yet read it.
I think that the points on the moms outside the circle is interesting and I like the point that these may be some of the women who need the hand of friendship extended. I sometimes talk too much about me. And I forget to ask people how they are doing. I get nervous and feel awkward and talk about what I know which is me. And then I get insecure that I'm talking too much. I am always still learning social cues and nuances. Sometimes when asking people how they are doing I think I sound fake and unsure whether it's any of my business so I don't do it. Totally forgetting that the other person wants to be at ease as well. Live and learn.
Good things to think about.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 9,029
Adee, I have to say that while I have only been to a couple of the selling events and think they are painful I was the one who snatched up the entire set of nesting vintage Tupperware containers when we cleaned out my great aunts house when she died.m they are useful and remind me of her.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
