wpainterw

I have sometimes found that some persons in early recovery have become “instant therapists”, appearing to believe themselves (maybe) having “problems” but nonetheless eager to “help” others who may be in even deeper “trouble”. As the fellow in the 1959 British comedy film would say, “I’m all right Jack but you! Well you may be in really deep s...! Let me see if I can help you!”
Could this be the sneaky Beast talking? Maybe saying, “Well, you’re not really as badly off as some of the others. Maybe you can eventually have just one. Well O.K. maybe two. Maybe... Anyway, having become an instant expert you can help others. Not to worry much about yourself. Go right to Step Twelve. But keep a good hold on that “Get Out of Jail Free” card!”
I once knew a guy in early recovery who popped out of a rehab “spin dry” and enrolled in a university course to get a master’s degree in addiction counseling. He eventually graduated and went South to “counsel” lucky “patients”. After a year or two he contacted me to recommend a big shot lawyer to defend himself against a second DUI since he was terrified about being sent to prison. Said his "Constitutional Rights" had been violated! On the phone he seemed high as a kite. Was he still “counseling”? Was he saying to himself, “I’m all right Jack!” (“Really, now? Well there were those two DUI’s but that’s not going to happen again- hopefully”.)

W.

Dee74

I guess there have been people, through history, who convinced themselves that they weren't that bad...I certainly did that myself in my drinking days.

I think maybe sometimes too people would much rather help another than to look at themselves....somehow the task seems easier or at least clearer when it's not us.

But for, me helping others here was, and is, a major component of my recovery.

Personally, I prefer to think that helping each other is mostly a positive thing and this website certainly bears that out I think

Guess it comes back to checking our motives?

D

Theophania

Sometimes students are the best teachers I myself am on my second recovery (very early days), I am also studying to be a psychologist :P I do believe that I can only help others after I have dealt with my demons and I whole heartedly believe that I cannot help others while I am drinking... That being said alcohol is cunning baffling and powerful, the denial of my alcoholic mind at times is so strong that I sometimes truly believe the crap I spin myself... I am sure though that there are many alcoholics (still drinking) in many professions and I guess we just have to hope that the professional boards created to govern these professions deal with any damage someone could be doing to themselves or others as quickly as possible

mecanix

I often feel the chronic relapser has as much if not more to teach me than someone who appears to be doing swimmingly .
The lessons are there for all of us to see even if the teacher is unaware of what it is they are teaching .
I for one will certainly not give up on trying to use the experiences with family and of life in my past to help people garner some understanding and hopefully build a better future for themselves, even if the lesson is to do or be nothing like me

I don't think i have the right to council anyone, just share what experience i might have, to me that seems like being able to get something useful and positive for the world, from a load of pain and abuse .

Bestwishes, m

UnixBer

wpainterw: It could be the AV. And it is indeed cunning, baffling and parasitically powerful. AV is also subjective and differs in individuals, as everyone is different and everyone has a unique situtation.

About that counseling others could just be the AV for some person mean a lure towards drinking and minimizing the real situtation... as an advance towards drinking.
For some other person, it could be like this: AV: "Since you now don't really seem to know or remember who you are. You like to help people. You are helping people with your ideas and this is only good... no strings attached... by the way, the way your putting up that information gives subtly the kind of image of you that you wouldn't like giving of yourself and with a bit of work here and there we can see just when you get isolated from people... People hate you now already you knew that, didn't you?".

Because one of the AV tricks can relate to twisting the perception of reality and world into negative, depressed version in an attempt to bring back the old habits. Isolation is propably one thing the AV would like, as it is closer to a life of an active alcoholic anyway. Just some thoughts... Interesting viewpoint and subject.

wpainterw

Unixber wrote in part, quoting what an AV might be saying: " AV: "Since you now don't really seem to know or remember who you are. You like to help people. You are helping people with your ideas and this is only good... no strings attached... by the way, the way your putting up that information gives subtly the kind of image of you that you wouldn't like giving of yourself and with a bit of work here and there we can see just when you get isolated from people... People hate you now already you knew that, didn't you?".

To me this sounds like a warm and comforting, supportive AV, suggesting that a bit of recovery work would help a person feel less isolated from people "no strings attached". What's this AV up to? What's his game plan? Is it trying to get the fellow "less isolated" so he can rejoin his drinking buddies, maybe belly up to the bar to "help them out" by suggesting ways they can all enjoy "moderate drinking"? I've been told that a proper AV is not playing on my team, not really trying to help me get sober, "fit in". A proper AV wants to bring back the booze!
In a way it's like the legendary aspect of "Old Scratch", Lucifer himself. A sociable, genial, helpful gent., eager to please, always willing to help. Women, wine and song, commercial and professional success. Wine first, then vodka, etc. Helpful old Scratch!

W.

Threshold

Many alcoholics and addicts are extremists. We are either way down low or way up high. Middle ground is foreign territory.

For me, one of the scariest challenges of sobriety was learning to live in the land of middle ground. Neither climbing mountains for skiing down that at 60MPH...but walking WITH life. Life without me adding large doses of drama just for effect.

I have also seen what you describe. I've experienced some of it myself...heck if I wasn't having a great day...then sobriety was a bust and I may as well mourn it with a drink. It was only when I came to terms with the fact that life isn't just the valleys and peaks I started to have a real shot at sober living. I hadn't actually realized that what happened sober WAS living...at first it felt like some weird surreal mistake, an excuse and shabby imitation...like visiting a different country and feeling like everything was inferior because it was unfamiliar...then it dawned on me that yes it was different, but different didn't mean worse, and I could develop a taste, appreciate and real enjoyment of it.

My sister...who like me is bi-polar decided one day to go to med school and become a psychiatrist so she could find a cure for me. Those were her exact words. Meanwhile, she basically abandoned her three daughters, who spent her med school years in and out of psych wards, drug and alcohol abuse, abusive relationships...you name it. It was easier to hide behind the honorable goal of going to med school than it was to stay home, address her own mental health issues and parent her daughters. There was more glamor to it.

She was in med school saying as a Dr she would be able to afford to send them to Yale and buy them horses. Two of them dropped out of high school and the third is still struggling her way through.

I don't know the motivations of others. I know hers because she shares them with me of her own volition. I do know what it's like to surrender the drama and that when I pick it up again...it's off to the races.

We can learn how to GET sober, but that doesn't mean we've learned or accepted living sober. Some days I still resent the heck out of it.

wpainterw

Threshold: A very interesting and provocative post! There's an old saying, "Physician! Help thyself!"

W.

soberhawk

There can be an element of fleeing in it – you can get your focus of your own pain by focusing on others. I can at times have that tendency.

That can be unhealthy - I am not sure it always is.

Your sister Threshold could easily be motivated by the need to escape her own problems, maybe she was right – that she could not face them.