What works for many
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What works for many
From AA BB chapter 5.
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.
There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.
There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
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Originally Posted by Anna 
Thankfully, there are many paths to recovery and we can see people recovering in a variety of ways on SR.
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I had a huge reaction to this part of the Book, still do. In fact I discussed it at length with my therapist, it felt so divisive and arrogant and exclusive to me.
I have spent so much of my life fighting against intolerance, in any way shape of form. These sentences were like nails on a chalkboard to me, still are.
Then I realized that my sobriety can be a customized deal. I can tailor it to fit my psyche, I don't have to abandon principles that I hold dear. I am feeling my way, open to everything right now, and feeling strangely calm. And when something like the passage above brings up really strong feelings for me, I am just observing why I have such a strong reaction. My guess is that I will never find those words palatable, but I guess I don't have to worry about ever or never today.
I have spent so much of my life fighting against intolerance, in any way shape of form. These sentences were like nails on a chalkboard to me, still are.
Then I realized that my sobriety can be a customized deal. I can tailor it to fit my psyche, I don't have to abandon principles that I hold dear. I am feeling my way, open to everything right now, and feeling strangely calm. And when something like the passage above brings up really strong feelings for me, I am just observing why I have such a strong reaction. My guess is that I will never find those words palatable, but I guess I don't have to worry about ever or never today.
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When I read and absorb the words I see a statement of truths not negatives aimed at anyone. There was no one holding us down and pouring alcohol down our throats as there is no one saying this is the only way to get sober. To me all paths seem fragile and depend on many factors with honesty being a big one.
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Me too... LOL
It means, to me that if one is going to make AA's program of recovery work for them, rigorous honesty is required... if ***AA*** is going to work. Other programs work and I would assume that a high degree of honesty is also required.
It means, to me that if one is going to make AA's program of recovery work for them, rigorous honesty is required... if ***AA*** is going to work. Other programs work and I would assume that a high degree of honesty is also required.
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I don't pick and choose pieces of what's suggested as a program of recovery because that way didn't work for me. I can justify just about any behavior and when I make my own rules I favor the ones that are easy to do. When I tried to work AA partially, I stayed drunk. Sometimes when something rubs us the wrong way in recovery, it's because our addiction is calling the shots and is trying to avoid a new approach that might actually work. We can't fix broke minds with broke minds...
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Originally Posted by Mark75
Me too... LOL
It means, to me that if one is going to make AA's program of recovery work for them, rigorous honesty is required... if ***AA*** is going to work. Other programs work and I would assume that a high degree of honesty is also required.
It means, to me that if one is going to make AA's program of recovery work for them, rigorous honesty is required... if ***AA*** is going to work. Other programs work and I would assume that a high degree of honesty is also required.
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Loads of folks are those 'unfortunates' for whom AA will never work, no matter how well and diligently those steps are worked, no matter the level or degree of honesty. To state, as this book has done and quoted here, that a particular approach to sobriety will work for you if only you can become sufficiently honest with yourself is dishonest itself in the extreme. Ironic, huh?
Mark, I agree with you that if you want AA to work, you must be honest with yourself.
That is not the statement made and quoted here.
Zoe, your reading is according to common English usage and rules of logic and inference. You need not apologize.
As other posters said above, statements such as this are harmful to many, and may actually turn people away from this useful program. And, as Anna said, there are alternatives.
Mark, I agree with you that if you want AA to work, you must be honest with yourself.
That is not the statement made and quoted here.
Zoe, your reading is according to common English usage and rules of logic and inference. You need not apologize.
As other posters said above, statements such as this are harmful to many, and may actually turn people away from this useful program. And, as Anna said, there are alternatives.
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I'm changing my old saying that there's nothing that can make tempers flare more quickly than discussion of politics and religion.
It's updated to .......and the program of choice to achieve sobriety.
Hence the day I was telling my husband about the 12 steps. I finished reciting step 12 which was followed by him saying "Please do NOT talk to my friends about them quitting drinking". He has a stack who could use the talk
I had to explain that I was not going to say a word but if I'm asked then off I'll go.
I think that we all hold very near and dear to our heart whatever we found that helped us or is helping us to achieve success in staying sober and clean. Since AA is a very long standing program it can appear that those of us who are in AA are sometimes trying to shove it down people's throats as the one program that works. This can appear to be true even if it's not the intention which is the case here.
You have to do what's right for you and what works for you.
It's updated to .......and the program of choice to achieve sobriety.
Hence the day I was telling my husband about the 12 steps. I finished reciting step 12 which was followed by him saying "Please do NOT talk to my friends about them quitting drinking". He has a stack who could use the talk
I had to explain that I was not going to say a word but if I'm asked then off I'll go.I think that we all hold very near and dear to our heart whatever we found that helped us or is helping us to achieve success in staying sober and clean. Since AA is a very long standing program it can appear that those of us who are in AA are sometimes trying to shove it down people's throats as the one program that works. This can appear to be true even if it's not the intention which is the case here.
You have to do what's right for you and what works for you.
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Originally Posted by IOAA2
From AA BB chapter 5.
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.
There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.
There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
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