Atheist In recovery
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
maybe consider that step 2
~is a willingness to set aside your old beliefs
~a willingness to believe
~to stop insisting that there is no higher power
~or that a higher power can be everything you don't understand
and get through steps 4-9? where change takes place......then see what you feel
~is a willingness to set aside your old beliefs
~a willingness to believe
~to stop insisting that there is no higher power
~or that a higher power can be everything you don't understand
and get through steps 4-9? where change takes place......then see what you feel
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by sugarbear1 
maybe consider that step 2
~is a willingness to set aside your old beliefs
~a willingness to believe
~to stop insisting that there is no higher power
~or that a higher power can be everything you don't understand
and get through steps 4-9? where change takes place......then see what you feel
~is a willingness to set aside your old beliefs
~a willingness to believe
~to stop insisting that there is no higher power
~or that a higher power can be everything you don't understand
and get through steps 4-9? where change takes place......then see what you feel
If your answer is no, then AA is not your solution.
Unfortunately, if you are an alcoholic of my type, I know of no other solution. If it was out there I would have found it by now.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,711
You may have heard this in meetings...."self will run riot"- which to me means that if I insist on controlling everything I will end up in fear, self-pity, discontented and ALONE. A higher power takes the egocentric portion of my brain down a few notches. I do believe in God. But I also believe in the wonderful people in my life in and out of the rooms that have acted as a higher power in that they take me out of myself. It's not all always about me...when I found that out I was shocked jk lol But seriously, When I can be there to help others, I am functioning for the greater good of society as a whole and not just myself. I don't know if this made sense, but if you can have faith in your supportive network as a so called higher power or in place of it perhaps that would help?
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nunyah, California
Posts: 132
My wife is a 6+ year veteran of exclusively 12 step approaches (AA for herself and Al-Anon for her family issues). She's an avowed atheist, but says she has little trouble taking what she needs and leaving the rest as far as all the God stuff is concerned.
I say that's great if one can do that and I have no trouble believing there are millions of avowed, militant atheists who can get sustained sobriety in AA using doorknobs as their higher powers, or whatever. If one can engage in those kind of philosophical gymnastics effortlessly, then 12-step has great advantages - much like 7/11 convenience stores, there's dozens in every major city on every corner if you look.
On the other hand, if those kinds of mental gymnastics are impossible for you to manage, there are alternatives.
I say that's great if one can do that and I have no trouble believing there are millions of avowed, militant atheists who can get sustained sobriety in AA using doorknobs as their higher powers, or whatever. If one can engage in those kind of philosophical gymnastics effortlessly, then 12-step has great advantages - much like 7/11 convenience stores, there's dozens in every major city on every corner if you look.
On the other hand, if those kinds of mental gymnastics are impossible for you to manage, there are alternatives.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,964
Welcome to 
SR Wilber.
As a nonbeliever myself I have had some challenges with finding my place in AA. I have found that letting go of any notions I have about G*d/HP or spirituality clears my attention to the main task of living life free from alcohol. Eventually I developed my own personalized program. "Letting go" of behaviors or troubling thoughts that would hinder, my emotional, mental and yes
my naturalistic spiritual growth is the path I'm on today.
Have a healthy plan, put it into practice, remain persistent and have patience with yourself. That's the best suggestion I can give. May healing be your way.
SR Wilber.As a nonbeliever myself I have had some challenges with finding my place in AA. I have found that letting go of any notions I have about G*d/HP or spirituality clears my attention to the main task of living life free from alcohol. Eventually I developed my own personalized program. "Letting go" of behaviors or troubling thoughts that would hinder, my emotional, mental and yes
my naturalistic spiritual growth is the path I'm on today. Have a healthy plan, put it into practice, remain persistent and have patience with yourself. That's the best suggestion I can give. May healing be your way.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
Hi Wilber. People have stopped drinking since shortly after man learned how to ferment crushed grapes. You don't have to go to AA, believe in God, or have a Higher Power to get sober. You just need to stop drinking alcohol. There are lots of programs that can help you, and if AA aggravates you, then do something else.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
Dr. Sober: No one seriously considers using a doorknob as a "higher power". Usually the term is used to poke fun at any AA suggestion that a "higher power" can be "anything you want it to be" Nonetheless, for me at least there has been a door to sobriety, a way out into the sunshine, and folks seeking sobriety often walk through such a door. Usually, to open a door you need to twist the door knob.
I believe that each person should find the particular door that seems most comfortable, most welcoming. SR is one of them. There are others. There are many paths up Mt. Fuji and travelers, when they reach the top, which for me at least is sobriety, can shake hands with one another and say, "Welcome! We're so glad you've made it!"
W.
I believe that each person should find the particular door that seems most comfortable, most welcoming. SR is one of them. There are others. There are many paths up Mt. Fuji and travelers, when they reach the top, which for me at least is sobriety, can shake hands with one another and say, "Welcome! We're so glad you've made it!"
W.
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
[QUOTE=wpainterw;4070463]Dr. Sober: No one seriously considers using a doorknob as a "higher power". /QUOTE]
Um..in all seriousness I do know of someone whose HP was a big ole oak tree. It got cut down...boy did she have a bad day...but she got through it, sober.
Um..in all seriousness I do know of someone whose HP was a big ole oak tree. It got cut down...boy did she have a bad day...but she got through it, sober.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Woodinville WA
Posts: 4
I like Grugehead respond that
"all you have to believe is that there is some power greater than yourself."
I would add "that POWER is inside YOU."
I'm Buddhist. Buddha is no god and I admire his teaching. Maybe this book could help you. "One breath at a Time" Buddhism and the twelve steps -written by Kevin Griffin. He is a Buddhist author, teacher, and innovator in the field of addiction treatment. The insight and intimacy of his teaching have made him a leader in the mindful recovery movement. This book is available at the library!
All the best for your path to recovery. If you find you are interested in Buddhist teaching and meditations as related to addiction recovery, you might consider joining our recovery meeting on Saturday August 17th, 9am-6pm
"all you have to believe is that there is some power greater than yourself."
I would add "that POWER is inside YOU."
I'm Buddhist. Buddha is no god and I admire his teaching. Maybe this book could help you. "One breath at a Time" Buddhism and the twelve steps -written by Kevin Griffin. He is a Buddhist author, teacher, and innovator in the field of addiction treatment. The insight and intimacy of his teaching have made him a leader in the mindful recovery movement. This book is available at the library!
All the best for your path to recovery. If you find you are interested in Buddhist teaching and meditations as related to addiction recovery, you might consider joining our recovery meeting on Saturday August 17th, 9am-6pm
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
[QUOTE=Nuudawn;4070489] In all fairness, is it not possible that she saw the "big ole oak tree" as an expression of something else. In that sense, perhaps Tennyson might be thought to have had "the light of setting suns" as his higher power. Coleridge to have had "Alph the Sacred River" or, at least "a maiden with a dulcimer". I have heard that in Japan, a Zen Buddhist might see some presence in a rock, not as a worshiper of the rock, but as contemplating what the rock represents. Or a flower, or the way marks are left in sand after raking it in a certain way.
What do these things have in common? They are not "oneself" and yet who is to say what may not lie within....?
W.
Originally Posted by wpainterw
Dr. Sober: No one seriously considers using a doorknob as a "higher power". /QUOTE]
Um..in all seriousness I do know of someone whose HP was a big ole oak tree. It got cut down...boy did she have a bad day...but she got through it, sober.
Um..in all seriousness I do know of someone whose HP was a big ole oak tree. It got cut down...boy did she have a bad day...but she got through it, sober.
What do these things have in common? They are not "oneself" and yet who is to say what may not lie within....?
W.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 110
I truly sympathize. Although AA insists you don't have to believe in a God, the frequent mentions of God (not to mention the Lord's Prayer said at every meeting) as well as their origins in the Oxford Group (an evangelical nondenominational movement) and the cult-like higher power devotion of many of their followers (almost like they want to convert you) paints a different picture. Read the 12 steps--take what you want (for me, 2 of the steps, the rest is religious stuff). The Sober Recovery forum has enough diversity (and friendly people) and I enjoy it; however, I find group therapy helpful [as long as it doesn't follow the 12 step model, I'm fine with it, and you may be able to find similar groups]
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
Yes, I must confess that in the past I have been deeply concerned about some of the things I have heard at meetings. I hung on. I can't say I did the 12 steps in any conventional way. I never had a real "sponsor". I did however find a number of friends within the Agnostics group. I stayed with that group for nine years and then, when I had to have bypass surgery and two close AA friends promised to visit me in the hospital one Sunday morning, I waited for them for them but they never came, I guess I overreacted and stopped coming to the group. That was 16 years ago. I stopped in at the group now and then but never really felt the same. They say that depression is common in the aftermath of heart bypass surgery. Guess that was so with me.
Conventional AA dogma would be, I suppose, that I was setting myself up for a relapse. That I stopped going because I wanted to drink. Well maybe I've been on a dry drunk ever since. I don't really care. Dry or wet, the bottom line is that I haven't had a drink for 25 years and have no intention or inclination to do so. No white knuckles. Maybe a few liver spots.
My heart's acting up again now and I'm going to call my cardiologist tomorrow to see what gives. At 86 it probably won't be "heroic measures" like 16 years ago. And, since I now live in a rural area where there are no agnostics meetings, I won't be expecting visits from AA members. But if they do have to go in and do something I can think back to last time, back in 1997, when I thought, just before going under, that if it didn't work out I'd get to see the dog I had to say goodbye to back in '92. And if it worked there was another one ready to greet me back at home. The difference now is that there are three dogs up there waiting for me. One back here at home. Along with being on a 25 year "dry drunk" I have a serious "character defect" which has never been "removed" (not that I've "prayed" much for that!). I've become a dogaholic. I guess "Dog" is my "higher power" (I was once cussed out by the chair of an AA group for saying that!). For another case study of a similar dog addiction see Caroline Knapp's "Pack of Two".
W.
Conventional AA dogma would be, I suppose, that I was setting myself up for a relapse. That I stopped going because I wanted to drink. Well maybe I've been on a dry drunk ever since. I don't really care. Dry or wet, the bottom line is that I haven't had a drink for 25 years and have no intention or inclination to do so. No white knuckles. Maybe a few liver spots.
My heart's acting up again now and I'm going to call my cardiologist tomorrow to see what gives. At 86 it probably won't be "heroic measures" like 16 years ago. And, since I now live in a rural area where there are no agnostics meetings, I won't be expecting visits from AA members. But if they do have to go in and do something I can think back to last time, back in 1997, when I thought, just before going under, that if it didn't work out I'd get to see the dog I had to say goodbye to back in '92. And if it worked there was another one ready to greet me back at home. The difference now is that there are three dogs up there waiting for me. One back here at home. Along with being on a 25 year "dry drunk" I have a serious "character defect" which has never been "removed" (not that I've "prayed" much for that!). I've become a dogaholic. I guess "Dog" is my "higher power" (I was once cussed out by the chair of an AA group for saying that!). For another case study of a similar dog addiction see Caroline Knapp's "Pack of Two".
W.
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