Male stereotypes
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by Weasel 
I am a self made man with regard to my masculine identity. I being gay adds an element to my view of men that cannot adequate be expressed here. Mostly because I cannot articulate it right now.
Good topic. I happen to really enjoy being a guy and all that comes with it, Real or perceived.
Good topic. I happen to really enjoy being a guy and all that comes with it, Real or perceived.
Thanks, Ken, for a great share. I enjoy being a guy too.
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Originally Posted by Itchy
...I think the key is what you describe. Being shown man as dog and/or being physically beaten slapped whatever as well as verbally assaulted has been cited a lot by many that learned nothing else and are lost.
...Like becoming an alcoholic later in life than many, life hands us endless curve balls and we can either step into one and belt it out of the park, or cry about never getting a good pitch.
...It is amazing what people carry over from their childhood and never question. I haven't figured out why some like me can be free by conscious decision, and others never see any need or never look at themselves and ask what they want and go get that thing.
...All of them are gone now, and I am the oldest family member left. I had to, did, and continue to support my 40 year marriage and two boys and the beautiful, literally, daughters they brought into out lives.
Me, I never got past anything in school, so I'm doubly proud of her. More importantly, she does not have a personal history of being abused, and its made a world of difference. My brothers's and sister's children are all messed up like we were as kids. I stopped drinking and sobered up before having my child, and they did not for their kids. Unfortunately, their kids inherited all the misfortunes my parents had handed down to us.
For me, the buck stopped with me, and that made all the difference, and is why I sobered up before I even dared have children. I haven't spoke with my brothers for years now, and my sister and I have a workable strained relationship. I don't get along with any of my nephews or niece. They have children of their own now, and the inheritance sadly continues. All the male role models are dominate and abusive by disposition and abuse alcohol and drugs. All the female role models present as helpless and bitchy, and abuse alcohol/drugs too, of course.
I dodged a real bullet by my getting and staying sober. Amen.
You did real good, Itchy. You made it happen. You batted that curve ball right outta the park! Awesomely done.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by BamaDan
Rob, I had similar issues with my father, particularly regarding alcohol. I lost him a year and a half ago to cancer... but we repaired and healed each other in particular ways that ony the father and son can before he passed.
Prior to his getting sick however, I learned a more critical lesson from him as HIS child...those impulses he acted on coursed through my veins as well, and I DID NOT LIKE THEM. When I felt them comming on, I diverted them (dif ways).
The key being, Had I not Known him in those impressionable times, I MOST CERTAINLY would have become him.
You are a man. It takes a man to be able to know when he's... not : )
Prior to his getting sick however, I learned a more critical lesson from him as HIS child...those impulses he acted on coursed through my veins as well, and I DID NOT LIKE THEM. When I felt them comming on, I diverted them (dif ways).
The key being, Had I not Known him in those impressionable times, I MOST CERTAINLY would have become him.
You are a man. It takes a man to be able to know when he's... not : )
Me, I've had talks with my dad, and fights, and nothing really works. The next time I see him, its same old same old. He just comes to terms with me to shut me up, lol. He loves me and all that, and me him, but there's nothing there anyways, if you know what I mean. Love dosen't always fix things, and simply because the fix would be worse than living with a broken relationship, has been my experience...
No matter. He is not me and I'm not him. 'nuff said between him and i. live and let live.
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Originally Posted by yeahgr8
Interesting my father was much the same...although he actually carries a load of guilt around with him about it. Since getting sober i have had a chat with him about it and made it plain that i have forgiven him and he doesn't need the guilt anymore but i don't think he's going to give it up lightly.
...It's easy to have a pop at the guy but somewhat overlooked is the role of the man's enabler, i.e. his partner/wife...as any good alcoholic knows we needed our enablers...
...My Mum said she stayed with Dad for the sake of myself and my brother...yeah that worked out f***ing great lol
...It's easy to have a pop at the guy but somewhat overlooked is the role of the man's enabler, i.e. his partner/wife...as any good alcoholic knows we needed our enablers...
...My Mum said she stayed with Dad for the sake of myself and my brother...yeah that worked out f***ing great lol
You got it down for a good sober life and finished nicely going forward, lol. If we couldn't find the laughter in these situations, we'd be drunk and dead, I'm sure.
I've forgiven my dad (and mom) countless times, and they just wont let it happen. They seem to need that guilt just to keep it going for its on sake, like they are willingly paying with their lives for it. I dunno. Whatever they are doing to refuse my forgiveness is by their own hand, so be it.
Thanks again, yeahgr8. I enjoyed your share very much, lol. Stay cool!
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel
I really appreciate you starting this thread. I not only understand, but I wholeheartedly agree.
box of chocolates
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,013
Broke my heart reading this. Not that what you said was bad but it was that good.
I have a small son whom I raise and would hope what he takes out of life is the respect in women. Man or woman we are all the same. I was raised in a two parent loving home we were poor and my parents had their imperfections but no one was unequal or justified in theIr wrong doings so when I met the man I'm with now imagine the complete turn around not at first but as the drinking became worse to hear his mocho I'm a man drunken speeches. He was raised with divorced parents where his father cheated on his mother and told my ah at age 13 that he's a man and men cheat etc . Just the way it is with other ridiculous things on manhood. That broke my heart when he told me that. My ah is the sweetest softest guy when he's sober but when he drinks he relays his fathers words in his head. I'm glad you grew up and found your own values words and actions and paved your own path and not that of what your father taught of you.
If only more men were like that.
I have a small son whom I raise and would hope what he takes out of life is the respect in women. Man or woman we are all the same. I was raised in a two parent loving home we were poor and my parents had their imperfections but no one was unequal or justified in theIr wrong doings so when I met the man I'm with now imagine the complete turn around not at first but as the drinking became worse to hear his mocho I'm a man drunken speeches. He was raised with divorced parents where his father cheated on his mother and told my ah at age 13 that he's a man and men cheat etc . Just the way it is with other ridiculous things on manhood. That broke my heart when he told me that. My ah is the sweetest softest guy when he's sober but when he drinks he relays his fathers words in his head. I'm glad you grew up and found your own values words and actions and paved your own path and not that of what your father taught of you.
If only more men were like that.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Hi thislonelygirl,
Sorry for your ongoing troubles. I've read up on your other posts and threads. You've got serious challenges to deal with on an everyday level. You present as one with a faithful inner strength and endurance beyond measure. How fortunate for those sharing life with you! You're an inspiration, and I'm sure you have well seasoned experiences with helping others to become empowered to be all that they can be no matter what.
I can well understand your husbands behaviors. He has indeed been done wrong. Unfortunately, we're not children anymore, we're men in fact, and the responsibility for change belongs to each man no matter the early beginnings of us being wronged by our fathers or others in their stead or namesake. We can share our tears and fears of course, our pains, our hopes, yet at the end of the day, we cannot share away our personal responsibilities. We face and embrace ourselves with love or otherwise fail. Even so, in failure can still be discovered a better way forward. Failure itself is not a deal-breaker and can be learned from to again stand tall and be counted among men.
Justifications always provide excuses for broken men to look not at themselves but onto to others to nurse them back to health and satisfaction, and has been my own experience too.
I feel for your husband, and I hope he can soon forgive himself from the blame and guilt of his behaviors. He is caught in a hell which at every turn seduces him to yet another confrontation with his male-gone-wrong arrogance and ignorance. In these confrontations I too was seduced. The experiences of the seductions always reduced me to my childhood hurts and wrongs. It is not an understatement to say its tough to be a man when you feel like a lost kid.
Alcohol of course just makes it all worse even as it clouds and distorts the many issues, and provides new excuses to pass the buck, and with that passing attach even more wrongness to be endured by new innocents. And so the cycle continues in its horrible brutality.
I'm so sorry, thislonelygirl. Its girls like you that make the best of men examine themselves, and when men who cannot see past their own misfortunes have opportunity to be in a relationship with your kind of woman, they have little chance of not causing harm. In too many ways on too many levels, those that love broken men are the most victimised.
Having said that, none of us, woman or man, are completely innocent anymore. Children can of course be innocent. Adults though cannot claim the innocence of children, even though many destructive behaviors are childish in nature, and for that exact reason of a seeking for a renewed quality of innocence, all the lost adult will discover is more self-indulgence and revisiting of established resentments.
I hope you can fully realize that your husband is truly lost in more than an alcoholic haze, and without some clean\sober responsible experiences which effectively help him to establish his own ground, he will continue to suffer and bring that same suffering to others. To not realize the real life complications and struggles you both face together as parents is to in fact just continue the hurt forward. I'm sorry.
Be comforted with also knowing that broken men can surely become unbroken, and all the while notwithstanding their past histories of being wronged. There is always a way forward for those who seek a life of quality.
I have every hope for you and your husband. How awesome that SR is giving opportunity for you to voice your experiences, and to likewise hear from others in their turn. Thanks for posting on my thread, thislonelygirl.
Sorry for your ongoing troubles. I've read up on your other posts and threads. You've got serious challenges to deal with on an everyday level. You present as one with a faithful inner strength and endurance beyond measure. How fortunate for those sharing life with you! You're an inspiration, and I'm sure you have well seasoned experiences with helping others to become empowered to be all that they can be no matter what.
I can well understand your husbands behaviors. He has indeed been done wrong. Unfortunately, we're not children anymore, we're men in fact, and the responsibility for change belongs to each man no matter the early beginnings of us being wronged by our fathers or others in their stead or namesake. We can share our tears and fears of course, our pains, our hopes, yet at the end of the day, we cannot share away our personal responsibilities. We face and embrace ourselves with love or otherwise fail. Even so, in failure can still be discovered a better way forward. Failure itself is not a deal-breaker and can be learned from to again stand tall and be counted among men.
Justifications always provide excuses for broken men to look not at themselves but onto to others to nurse them back to health and satisfaction, and has been my own experience too.
I feel for your husband, and I hope he can soon forgive himself from the blame and guilt of his behaviors. He is caught in a hell which at every turn seduces him to yet another confrontation with his male-gone-wrong arrogance and ignorance. In these confrontations I too was seduced. The experiences of the seductions always reduced me to my childhood hurts and wrongs. It is not an understatement to say its tough to be a man when you feel like a lost kid.
Alcohol of course just makes it all worse even as it clouds and distorts the many issues, and provides new excuses to pass the buck, and with that passing attach even more wrongness to be endured by new innocents. And so the cycle continues in its horrible brutality.
I'm so sorry, thislonelygirl. Its girls like you that make the best of men examine themselves, and when men who cannot see past their own misfortunes have opportunity to be in a relationship with your kind of woman, they have little chance of not causing harm. In too many ways on too many levels, those that love broken men are the most victimised.
Having said that, none of us, woman or man, are completely innocent anymore. Children can of course be innocent. Adults though cannot claim the innocence of children, even though many destructive behaviors are childish in nature, and for that exact reason of a seeking for a renewed quality of innocence, all the lost adult will discover is more self-indulgence and revisiting of established resentments.
I hope you can fully realize that your husband is truly lost in more than an alcoholic haze, and without some clean\sober responsible experiences which effectively help him to establish his own ground, he will continue to suffer and bring that same suffering to others. To not realize the real life complications and struggles you both face together as parents is to in fact just continue the hurt forward. I'm sorry.
Be comforted with also knowing that broken men can surely become unbroken, and all the while notwithstanding their past histories of being wronged. There is always a way forward for those who seek a life of quality.
I have every hope for you and your husband. How awesome that SR is giving opportunity for you to voice your experiences, and to likewise hear from others in their turn. Thanks for posting on my thread, thislonelygirl.
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