Addiction is Addiction -- Or Is It?
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Originally Posted by iliveforyou 
I'm always baffled at how some addictions are socially accepted while others are frowned upon. I don't find it helpful in the least to pass judgement upon a person, their DOC, their way of recovery, etc. I pride myself on being an open minded, non judgmental person. I am respectful until I am disrespected. I've been judged many a time for having been a "street junkie" shooting up heroin and crack, living in my car, in and out of jail. Somehow my addiction was more disgusting and appalling to others than when I was suffering with alcoholism. In my mind it boils down the fact that addiction IS addiction. No one's addiction is better than another, absolutely absurd just writing that sentence!! To argue over something so petty is just saddening as well as ignorant. Individuals who pass judgments usually need to take a long, hard look at themselves. Everyone's utmost concern should be themselves and THEIR recovery. Just my honest opinion. On that note, I'm headed for bed, give SR a break for the day lol. I get a bit testy when it comes to topics like this.
-Jess
-Jess
I entirely agree with you.
That's why I was entirely shocked when another poster on this very forum referred to me a "former addict" in a context that suggested that I was not to be a credible resource of information for her by virtue of being such a "thing".
Wow.
Granted, the statement did not come from another "thing" like me (unless she was just not fessing up to it), but now that I realize the "thing" I have become, I'd better watch out who I reveal it to.
Actually, I reveal "it" to NO ONE, except in recovery settings or on this forum. Because I do realize that "in real life", I would indeed be received poorly by people who view addiction as a dirty-affliction-only-someone-else-can-be-and-never-me-oh-no-never-me-nosiree-bob.
I agree with Terminally Unique on a lot of things, and especially this one. Telling others, especially on paper, that you are an alcoholic or an addict is a BAD IDEA.
Any thoughts?
FT
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Ahh, telling others is an entirely different thing. Even though I suffer from the poor socialization of women and always analyze a woman's appearance when she walks into a room, I would NEVER judge someone based on their personal sufferings.
I always try to form my own opinions of people based on my interactions with them.
That being said, I've learned in the last ten years that I am truly a very naive person, and assuming that others were raised with the same values as my mother instilled in me has caused me personal pain and false relationships.
Therefore, I would put sharing my alcohol issues on the same level as sharing my sexual abuse issues: only in a therapy session, to (some) family, or to life-long friends.
What I find interesting is that during my "quit for 30 day phase" I told EVERYONE: customers, friends, coworkers. Haven't white figured out why I would do that....probably the overwhelming cravings I was experiencing.
I always try to form my own opinions of people based on my interactions with them.
That being said, I've learned in the last ten years that I am truly a very naive person, and assuming that others were raised with the same values as my mother instilled in me has caused me personal pain and false relationships.
Therefore, I would put sharing my alcohol issues on the same level as sharing my sexual abuse issues: only in a therapy session, to (some) family, or to life-long friends.
What I find interesting is that during my "quit for 30 day phase" I told EVERYONE: customers, friends, coworkers. Haven't white figured out why I would do that....probably the overwhelming cravings I was experiencing.
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Interesting topic. I don't think my addiction was better or worse than anyone elses, and i don't de-value the addict based on their addiction. I couldn't. I was a dumster variety addict. anything and everything went inside of me, and most substances caused me major problems, or would have had i not had something i preferred readily available.
this addict couldn't smoke pot while not drinking or drink while abstaining from opiates. everything either became a problem, or led me back to the thing that was the main problem. i'm kind of grateful for this because it keeps it real simple for me. i can't drink or use drugs, period.
i sometimes think of my 'disease' as a grotesque presentation of OCD disorder. my drinking and using was characterized by a total obsession to drink and use drugs in spite of the consequences and compulsive use once i started. i was totally consumed with getting and using and finding the ways and means to get and use. tunnel vision and total self-centeredness.
even today with a good while sober those traits will kick in seemingly innocuous ways. food, sex, video games, favorite sports teams, cigars, certain people. this reminds me that while i don't have to use drugs anymore this disorder is still present in me.
this addict couldn't smoke pot while not drinking or drink while abstaining from opiates. everything either became a problem, or led me back to the thing that was the main problem. i'm kind of grateful for this because it keeps it real simple for me. i can't drink or use drugs, period.
i sometimes think of my 'disease' as a grotesque presentation of OCD disorder. my drinking and using was characterized by a total obsession to drink and use drugs in spite of the consequences and compulsive use once i started. i was totally consumed with getting and using and finding the ways and means to get and use. tunnel vision and total self-centeredness.
even today with a good while sober those traits will kick in seemingly innocuous ways. food, sex, video games, favorite sports teams, cigars, certain people. this reminds me that while i don't have to use drugs anymore this disorder is still present in me.
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as far as telling others it's situational for me. I typically keep it to myself. I'm not so important that people need or want to know such things about me. But if an opportunity arises where sharing the truth of my experience could possibly benefit someone i have no problems telling someone.
I am not ashamed at all of who/what i am though.
I am not ashamed at all of who/what i am though.
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People's attitudes towards "legitimate" addictions are part of the epidemic of prescription drug abuse going on in this country.
Doctors included.
Many physicians are too eager to write prescriptions for dangerous drugs, or drugs that can become dangerous in the wrong hands.
In some states, deaths from drug overdose have overtaken the number of traffic fatalities:
In 16 states, drug deaths overtake traffic fatalities | cleveland.com
It is unfortunate that so many otherwise intelligent people consider addiction that can happen only to someone else, or in someone else's family.
It is sometimes the fear of "discovery" that causes people to avoid seeking help for addiction.
FT
Doctors included.
Many physicians are too eager to write prescriptions for dangerous drugs, or drugs that can become dangerous in the wrong hands.
In some states, deaths from drug overdose have overtaken the number of traffic fatalities:
In 16 states, drug deaths overtake traffic fatalities | cleveland.com
It is unfortunate that so many otherwise intelligent people consider addiction that can happen only to someone else, or in someone else's family.
It is sometimes the fear of "discovery" that causes people to avoid seeking help for addiction.
FT
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Do ya'll differentiate between addiction and the disease of addiction?
I have friends who developed serious addictions in their 20's. Cocaine, alcohol, and heroin usually. There was a whole host in my circle who shared this common issue. One friend died before having a chance. The rest of us all sought to quit. Most were able to do so without too much difficulty, and then drink and use occasionally and moderately.
The rest of us had a different experience. We might get off that particular substance only to have a problem with another one. The concept of using or drinking occasionally or in moderation appealed to us, but was never possible.
The disease of addiction seems to be an entirely different animal than the person who, for example, gets hooked on pain pills post-op, quits, and then can drink and smoke pot without any issues.
I have friends who developed serious addictions in their 20's. Cocaine, alcohol, and heroin usually. There was a whole host in my circle who shared this common issue. One friend died before having a chance. The rest of us all sought to quit. Most were able to do so without too much difficulty, and then drink and use occasionally and moderately.
The rest of us had a different experience. We might get off that particular substance only to have a problem with another one. The concept of using or drinking occasionally or in moderation appealed to us, but was never possible.
The disease of addiction seems to be an entirely different animal than the person who, for example, gets hooked on pain pills post-op, quits, and then can drink and smoke pot without any issues.
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To me, whether or not addiction is a "disease" is irrelevant. That is another HUGE bone of contention of many people on this forum, and I hope this thread does not devolve into an argument about that.
I recognize, however, that any individual's perceptions about the "legitimacy" of drug and alcohol addiction may hinge on the disease concept.
I prefer to look at addiction from the perspective of the damage it can cause to a society. Once the individual becomes the sole focus, a lot opportunity is lost for "damage control".
Groups of individuals who are considered "addicts" are at least as highly stigmatized as the individuals themselves. Court-ordered 12 step meetings are as much a punishment as they are therapeutic. People who don't want to self-identify with the group have a lot of trouble with this. "Dignified" people go to Betty Ford, right? Hmmmm.
A whole other thread could be started about the "costs" of addiction.
I'm more interested here on my initial question, whether "Addiction is addiction". Are all the forms of addiction equivalent. When we self-examine our thoughts about that, what comes out? Who IS the addict anyway?
I recognize, however, that any individual's perceptions about the "legitimacy" of drug and alcohol addiction may hinge on the disease concept.
I prefer to look at addiction from the perspective of the damage it can cause to a society. Once the individual becomes the sole focus, a lot opportunity is lost for "damage control".
Groups of individuals who are considered "addicts" are at least as highly stigmatized as the individuals themselves. Court-ordered 12 step meetings are as much a punishment as they are therapeutic. People who don't want to self-identify with the group have a lot of trouble with this. "Dignified" people go to Betty Ford, right? Hmmmm.
A whole other thread could be started about the "costs" of addiction.
I'm more interested here on my initial question, whether "Addiction is addiction". Are all the forms of addiction equivalent. When we self-examine our thoughts about that, what comes out? Who IS the addict anyway?
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Technically, for me addiction is using any mood altering substance for recreation. Doctor prescribed medications, under supervision, are probably another matter.
Addiction is usually progressive and the last phase for me was where nothing else mattered to me except where I could get my next drink, I sort of define addiction for myself by the mental obsession that goes with it.
Then there's all kinds of medical terminology... I don't know the exact medical definition for addiction, 'dependence' etc. 'Alcoholism' seems to be a term that is going out of fashion with the modern medical fraternity. I'm not really picky, I will identify as an alcoholic, but that's not all that defines me.
Before I started drinking (I avoided it for a long time due to my own family history) I remember looking at other people in bars pretty out of it, and thinking to myself, why can't they just have more self control. Deep down, despite my consciousness of my family pattern and hesitation to drink because of it, I didn't really think that I would be the one who could one day lose control... not as badly as I did.
I grew up during the Betty Ford era and I think she helped change many preconceived notions about addiction/alcoholism. Alcoholism is a weird thing, I think there is more acceptance of it these days as a brain dysfunction or illness, though I don't know if that's all there is to it. I tend to go along with the theory that it's determined both by predisposing genetic and environmental factors, and the proportion may vary from individual to individual. (There seem to be so many components too... physical, mental, emotional, social, many would also say involving the spiritual etc.)
I can understand why people pursue the topic because it does affect the way treatments are developed - our original concept of the condition. After awhile though, a lot of it began to seem to me semantic... I just wanted to get well and recover, and am glad I found the right forms of recovery for myself.
Addiction is usually progressive and the last phase for me was where nothing else mattered to me except where I could get my next drink, I sort of define addiction for myself by the mental obsession that goes with it.
Then there's all kinds of medical terminology... I don't know the exact medical definition for addiction, 'dependence' etc. 'Alcoholism' seems to be a term that is going out of fashion with the modern medical fraternity. I'm not really picky, I will identify as an alcoholic, but that's not all that defines me.
Before I started drinking (I avoided it for a long time due to my own family history) I remember looking at other people in bars pretty out of it, and thinking to myself, why can't they just have more self control. Deep down, despite my consciousness of my family pattern and hesitation to drink because of it, I didn't really think that I would be the one who could one day lose control... not as badly as I did.
I grew up during the Betty Ford era and I think she helped change many preconceived notions about addiction/alcoholism. Alcoholism is a weird thing, I think there is more acceptance of it these days as a brain dysfunction or illness, though I don't know if that's all there is to it. I tend to go along with the theory that it's determined both by predisposing genetic and environmental factors, and the proportion may vary from individual to individual. (There seem to be so many components too... physical, mental, emotional, social, many would also say involving the spiritual etc.)
I can understand why people pursue the topic because it does affect the way treatments are developed - our original concept of the condition. After awhile though, a lot of it began to seem to me semantic... I just wanted to get well and recover, and am glad I found the right forms of recovery for myself.
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Hi michelle01,
I think that is a very well-balanced and reasonable approach to the definition of addiction.
Does it really matter what causes it? It is the result that concerns us.
This is an important topic, as you point out, because the way society perceives "addiction" does affect the way treatments are developed. Recovery programs should not be punitive but voluntary, and there should be an array of options if the legal system gets involved in mandating treatment.
I think there are as many ways to recovery as there are types of "addicts".
I think that is a very well-balanced and reasonable approach to the definition of addiction.
Does it really matter what causes it? It is the result that concerns us.
"I just wanted to get well and recovery, and I am glad I found the right forms of recovery for myself."
I think there are as many ways to recovery as there are types of "addicts".
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Originally Posted by augustwest
Do ya'll differentiate between addiction and the disease of addiction?
I have friends who developed serious addictions in their 20's. Cocaine, alcohol, and heroin usually. There was a whole host in my circle who shared this common issue. One friend died before having a chance. The rest of us all sought to quit. Most were able to do so without too much difficulty, and then drink and use occasionally and moderately.
The rest of us had a different experience. We might get off that particular substance only to have a problem with another one. The concept of using or drinking occasionally or in moderation appealed to us, but was never possible.
The disease of addiction seems to be an entirely different animal than the person who, for example, gets hooked on pain pills post-op, quits, and then can drink and smoke pot without any issues.
I have friends who developed serious addictions in their 20's. Cocaine, alcohol, and heroin usually. There was a whole host in my circle who shared this common issue. One friend died before having a chance. The rest of us all sought to quit. Most were able to do so without too much difficulty, and then drink and use occasionally and moderately.
The rest of us had a different experience. We might get off that particular substance only to have a problem with another one. The concept of using or drinking occasionally or in moderation appealed to us, but was never possible.
The disease of addiction seems to be an entirely different animal than the person who, for example, gets hooked on pain pills post-op, quits, and then can drink and smoke pot without any issues.
As a potential disease entity, I suppose one addiction is similar to any other addiction since it involves the same dopamine receptors in the brain.
But WHAT sets the dominoes falling in one person and not another. And WHY doesn't it happen in the same person with ALL abusable substances?
Addiction MAY be addiction. Or not.
To me, an alcoholic is NOT the same as a heroin user.
A heroin user is NOT the same as a prescription drug abuser.
The alcoholic need only go to the store and buy a legal substance, and chooses to abuse it or not. Sometimes other people are harmed, sometimes not.
The prescription drug abuser begins with a legitimate drug purchase (except when the drug is subverted to the street), and chooses to abuse it or not. Sometimes other people are harmed, sometimes not.
But, a heroin addict has to go to illegal means to get their fix. Sometimes there are other crimes involved. USUALLY other people are harmed -- in the manufacturing, distributing, selling, and using these drugs, multiples of people are harmed along the way.
In ALL of the above, somebody profits. Big time.
So, I guess I just threw my opinion out there.
FT
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Originally Posted by failedtaper
That's why I was entirely shocked when another poster on this very forum referred to me a "former addict" in a context that suggested that I was not to be a credible resource of information for her by virtue of being such a "thing".
Wow.
Wow.
JMO, for you FT, I think you have really got to look at the source on this one. There's many reasons I wouldn't take this personally from this particular person. Look at it in context - it makes sense to me that they would say that, and it also makes sense to me that the reason for saying that has nothing to do with you. Don't let it rock your world - most people are in a different place and have a capacity for understanding. Clearly, not everyone should know about all your dirty laundry, but I think those who are close to us have a bit more perspective.
As a wider thought on the subject, keep in mind that you're not the first person who has been abusively and persistently scolded or shamed by this individual just so they can prove a point. Honestly, I think it's a situation the mods should pay some attention to.
.02
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i think all addicted people are sick people. i don't think any particular type of addict is better or worse than another from a moral perspective, but some are definitely sicker than others. like any illness some require more intensive, extreme, and longer durations of treatment. i think some people suffer from a chemical dependency to a particular substance in varying degrees of severity, experience varying degrees of suffering in the cessation/withdrawal process, but then return to normal. this could include recreational use of other substances, or possibly even the substance in question. I also think that the 'disease' is something more than just chemical dependency. there's a psychological and social component that goes beyond just physical addiction to a particular substance, and the biological component seems to prohibit the use of any substance if one is return to a normal life. i also think that to whatever extent my opinions can be generalized, there are also exceptions.
Addiction is a gigantic social problem in our culture. It affects everyone. There are bigtime profits, bigtime spending, and bigtime suffering created that permeates our entire society. I think it could be argued that the heroin or crack addict is worse than the alcoholic due to the harm caused from point a to point b, but i don't see the value in that from the perspective of treating addiction as an illness. i know that there are superficial differences between different types of addictions, but at the emotional/psychological level i don't really see any. I think it's just a matter of what type of high the individual prefers. though i know from experience that that the heroin addicts ride to the bottom can more quickly lead to the type of degradation and depravity that we don't like to discuss at the dinner table, the emotional pain in the individual is largely the same regardless of your drug preference.
the bottom line for me is that people addicted are people that are sick. whether you're a successful business man with a one time addiction to pain pills prescribed by your MD, or a worn out heroin junkie, we are sick. it is not a question of morality. i have personally seen too many thieves, prostitutes, dead beat dad's, and all around criminals get clean, stay clean, and then live lives that are productive and focused on being of benefit to humanity to believe otherwise.
this is all just my opinion based on my experience as an alcoholic, cocaine, and opiate addict; as well as 20 years worth of anecdotal evidence being right in the middle of the addiction dilemma, both using and now two years in recovery.
Addiction is a gigantic social problem in our culture. It affects everyone. There are bigtime profits, bigtime spending, and bigtime suffering created that permeates our entire society. I think it could be argued that the heroin or crack addict is worse than the alcoholic due to the harm caused from point a to point b, but i don't see the value in that from the perspective of treating addiction as an illness. i know that there are superficial differences between different types of addictions, but at the emotional/psychological level i don't really see any. I think it's just a matter of what type of high the individual prefers. though i know from experience that that the heroin addicts ride to the bottom can more quickly lead to the type of degradation and depravity that we don't like to discuss at the dinner table, the emotional pain in the individual is largely the same regardless of your drug preference.
the bottom line for me is that people addicted are people that are sick. whether you're a successful business man with a one time addiction to pain pills prescribed by your MD, or a worn out heroin junkie, we are sick. it is not a question of morality. i have personally seen too many thieves, prostitutes, dead beat dad's, and all around criminals get clean, stay clean, and then live lives that are productive and focused on being of benefit to humanity to believe otherwise.
this is all just my opinion based on my experience as an alcoholic, cocaine, and opiate addict; as well as 20 years worth of anecdotal evidence being right in the middle of the addiction dilemma, both using and now two years in recovery.
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Wow, augustwest,
Congratulations big time on the two years. That's something.
I know that, for myself, I gained a new respect for what addiction means after having it affect me on a deeply personal level. That goes for dealing with family members with addiction (one nearly died), and myself personally. When I quit drinking many years ago, I didn't think much about it being a "depraved" sort of thing I was doing. After all, I was an upstanding member of society, so what's the problem?
Later on, opiates came into my life as a part of the "treatment" of a painful physical condition. Again, "upstanding" me, so what's the problem?
The "problem" is that I now saw "the hook". The change in brain chemistry "under the influence". The pull to "do what you need to" in order to get your drug. The acting out of character, the destruction of rational thought processes -- all this was terrifying.
And yet, my "level" of addiction was only a level. When I say I do not believe one addiction is the same as another, it is really only the "degree" of addiction. Perhaps a sort of "staging" as is done with cancer. And addition is not entirely unlike that.
I'm glad I caught my addiction at an early stage. I can see how, under the right circumstances, it could and would progress.
I don't disagree with anything anyone else has said here. I think this is a subject long due for self-introspection and healthy discussion.
Congratulations big time on the two years. That's something.
I know that, for myself, I gained a new respect for what addiction means after having it affect me on a deeply personal level. That goes for dealing with family members with addiction (one nearly died), and myself personally. When I quit drinking many years ago, I didn't think much about it being a "depraved" sort of thing I was doing. After all, I was an upstanding member of society, so what's the problem?
Later on, opiates came into my life as a part of the "treatment" of a painful physical condition. Again, "upstanding" me, so what's the problem?
The "problem" is that I now saw "the hook". The change in brain chemistry "under the influence". The pull to "do what you need to" in order to get your drug. The acting out of character, the destruction of rational thought processes -- all this was terrifying.
And yet, my "level" of addiction was only a level. When I say I do not believe one addiction is the same as another, it is really only the "degree" of addiction. Perhaps a sort of "staging" as is done with cancer. And addition is not entirely unlike that.
I'm glad I caught my addiction at an early stage. I can see how, under the right circumstances, it could and would progress.
I don't disagree with anything anyone else has said here. I think this is a subject long due for self-introspection and healthy discussion.
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Thanks man. it's been quite a journey for sure, and i'm just getting started.
when you describe it in terms of degree i absolutely agree, and that's pretty much what i was trying to say. you're fortunate. you stopped early. i had stopped drinking for a year when a medical problem required that i take opiate painkillers for a prolonged period of time. having already been an alcoholic, pot head, acid head, high level party person earlier in my life, that "hook" looked and sounded and felt more like a "good reason" or "excuse" and i was G-O-N-E. and yes it was terrifying.
when i was druggie deadhead traveling around and being 'free' i rationalized my ever increasing alcohol problem by compiling an impressive list of things i hadn't, and wouldn't ever do so therefore i don't have a problem. well when those opiates took hold i accomplished every sordid task on that list and then some.
when you describe it in terms of degree i absolutely agree, and that's pretty much what i was trying to say. you're fortunate. you stopped early. i had stopped drinking for a year when a medical problem required that i take opiate painkillers for a prolonged period of time. having already been an alcoholic, pot head, acid head, high level party person earlier in my life, that "hook" looked and sounded and felt more like a "good reason" or "excuse" and i was G-O-N-E. and yes it was terrifying.
when i was druggie deadhead traveling around and being 'free' i rationalized my ever increasing alcohol problem by compiling an impressive list of things i hadn't, and wouldn't ever do so therefore i don't have a problem. well when those opiates took hold i accomplished every sordid task on that list and then some.
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