What is relapse, and why is it OK?
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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Originally Posted by SamanthaIam 
What is meant by relapse?
You Have To Do It For Yourself
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 29
Hi Samantha
Please understand that this is just my opinion but a relapse is when a person is trying to start a new life without any mind or mood altering substance in their life, but in a moment of weakness, gives in to that drink or line or pill or needle etc. You've heard a lot of opinion's here. Now it's time to chose your own.
The idea that relapse is a part of addiction is because it happens so often. We are addict's after all. It's up too you to decide if it's part of addiction or not. My outlook on the matter is this: don't let a relapse ruin the time of being clean you've got in. It's the day after the relapse that really counts. You have a very difficult choice to make that day, two roads to travel. Recommit to being clean or give up. Please don't give up. Good Luck
Please understand that this is just my opinion but a relapse is when a person is trying to start a new life without any mind or mood altering substance in their life, but in a moment of weakness, gives in to that drink or line or pill or needle etc. You've heard a lot of opinion's here. Now it's time to chose your own.
The idea that relapse is a part of addiction is because it happens so often. We are addict's after all. It's up too you to decide if it's part of addiction or not. My outlook on the matter is this: don't let a relapse ruin the time of being clean you've got in. It's the day after the relapse that really counts. You have a very difficult choice to make that day, two roads to travel. Recommit to being clean or give up. Please don't give up. Good Luck
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I chose to stop drinking, as in that's it, no more, done. Nope. I quit once and that has been enough.
If ever I were to take a drink, it would be my choice, not the effect of an 'all powerful disease or moral failing'.
If ever I were to take a drink, it would be my choice, not the effect of an 'all powerful disease or moral failing'.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
I won't get into the debate of what a relapse is but I will say that I've never heard it said that a relapse is OK. I've heard it said that it's common for drunks to swear off alcohol (or drugs) and go back on it. I know I did. For many years. I even swore it off for 2 years once only to go back out drinking.
I've lost many friends to "relapses". People die. This is a deadly disease we're talking about so please don't give yourself permission to "relapse" because you've heard it's part of recovery, like it's necessary. It's not!
I've seen many people in my AA group that have never had another drink -- I just heard a woman with 16 years share her story. She came into AA and never had another drink. She says the way she did it was to get a sponsor and work the steps and continue to work the steps.
Also, my father, an AA member with 39 years of sobriety came into AA and never went back out. I have a feeling he swore off alcohol more than once during his drinking career though.
*I'm not saying AA is the only way, because it's not, just sharing my experience*
I've lost many friends to "relapses". People die. This is a deadly disease we're talking about so please don't give yourself permission to "relapse" because you've heard it's part of recovery, like it's necessary. It's not!
I've seen many people in my AA group that have never had another drink -- I just heard a woman with 16 years share her story. She came into AA and never had another drink. She says the way she did it was to get a sponsor and work the steps and continue to work the steps.
Also, my father, an AA member with 39 years of sobriety came into AA and never went back out. I have a feeling he swore off alcohol more than once during his drinking career though.
*I'm not saying AA is the only way, because it's not, just sharing my experience*
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
Talk about semantics! I'm not getting involved in any of these debates any longer.
On the bright side, it seems there's universal agreement on the most important thing: don't drink.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by Squizz
Talk about semantics! I'm not getting involved in any of these debates any longer.
Sober people are sober. People that continue to drink are people that continue to drink.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: I'm exactly where I should be.
Posts: 1,889
I think Keith had a very logical point by saying that if you continue to relapse you need to re-evaluate your method of recovery. I think that is important -that if you DO relapse you think about why your last plan didn't work.
All I know that since I decided that alcohol was making my life unmanagable and I made the commitment to quit for good -I haven't relapsed. It can happen...many here to prove that fact. Relapse does NOT have to be a part of recovery.
This debate mimics the 'which came first' arguement. LOL
All I know that since I decided that alcohol was making my life unmanagable and I made the commitment to quit for good -I haven't relapsed. It can happen...many here to prove that fact. Relapse does NOT have to be a part of recovery.
This debate mimics the 'which came first' arguement. LOL
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
Well I can see the points everybody is making. Because at one time I thought each of those things about these particular definitions. I quit more than a year ago and I haven't had a single relapse and no I don't think relapses are OK. Or if you put the fine point on wantinmg to quit and then quitting for a fe minutes or hours and then drinking again even when you didn't get 24 hours or some other arbitrary short amount of time sober than I have to say I relapsed at least 365 times two times as I wanted to quit ans said ai would every morniong for the last two years I was drinking.
I also say they might be good, once, if they are the factor that lets one know finally that it has to be for good and never will we be a normal drinker again.
I also agree that looking forward to having relapses as part of quitting isn't a bright way to quit for me as I hated myself after each morning's failure when I woke up the next morning and said I was going to quit again like being stuck in Groundhog day. But if it is working for one then for that one it is good, unless they are just going in circles, whatever the time period long or short.
I also agree that beating one's self up to the point that you don't try again after a relapse then beating yourself up is not going to make it better . . . unless it does and beating yourself up makes you quit then for that one I guess it is OK. That sure would not work for me, but then again neither do a lot of other people's ways to quit work for me that is perfectly great and works for them.
Got someone that thinks they have the only way that works? Ok I am sober for more than a year since my way wasn't theirs does that invalidate what worked for them? Of course not! Nor the other way around.
I am the last to do a group hug as far as excusing bad behaviors, I am after all ex LEO and military to boot. But I will be there for any of you here if I can whether you relapse or not.
I think some may have had a bad Thanksgiving and are not looking forward to Christmas either. For you I wish you some lifting of whatever has you under stress. I have had some people make a wrong assumption that I am an optimist and always look on the bright side of others. As a son/father/friend/husband/senior leader/junior follower I have found one truth. That people will live up to, or down to, our expectations of them every time. The ones like me who expect good things are encouraging and get that. We are also projecting who and what we are internally. So are those who expect others to live down to their low expectations.
Insofar as the labeling of others as amateur psychologists here and elsewhere, I can understand that feeling if you are a professional who can make that evaluation by being a psychologist yourself and are peer reviewing our credentials. I have met counselors who are not Doctorates (You have to have a PhD to call yourself a Psychologist) and are paraprofessionals who are some of the best counselors I have seen and get terrific results. I have also seen doctorates who could not counsel their way out of a paper bag.
But I can tell you the qualifications I see in each of you here. I see the qualifications of the wounded healer here, as well as the compassion and passion we can have in that attempt to help others while we heal ourselves. Ok, so some are maybe a little over the top in their passion here. Fine.
The greatest value I find here are the very differences in perceptions and ways to articulate them. I have had some like my posts, while I have had some take offense by misreading them and asking if that is what I meant. I got to explain in those cases but perhaps not in all of them if they didn't ask me. But for those who don't like mine there is another right behind it from another, written from another [perspective, in different words, perhaps the same thing, that may help.
Our greatest strength is in our diversity here. If one of us isn't reaching that person asking and their lives hanging in the balance the next person to post might make it all clear. No one of us will be all things to all people.
I certainly would not want that responsibility or to have to try to be all things to all people. I will also keep an open mind, but not so open my brains fall out. There are people I will not keep company with, and others who won't with me. That is good as it is enough, and I have enough.
I like our successes, let's agree to keep trying, and while we are at it, agree to disagree with the same camaraderie we have when we agree. They are two sides to the same coin right?
I also say they might be good, once, if they are the factor that lets one know finally that it has to be for good and never will we be a normal drinker again.
I also agree that looking forward to having relapses as part of quitting isn't a bright way to quit for me as I hated myself after each morning's failure when I woke up the next morning and said I was going to quit again like being stuck in Groundhog day. But if it is working for one then for that one it is good, unless they are just going in circles, whatever the time period long or short.
I also agree that beating one's self up to the point that you don't try again after a relapse then beating yourself up is not going to make it better . . . unless it does and beating yourself up makes you quit then for that one I guess it is OK. That sure would not work for me, but then again neither do a lot of other people's ways to quit work for me that is perfectly great and works for them.
Got someone that thinks they have the only way that works? Ok I am sober for more than a year since my way wasn't theirs does that invalidate what worked for them? Of course not! Nor the other way around.
I am the last to do a group hug as far as excusing bad behaviors, I am after all ex LEO and military to boot. But I will be there for any of you here if I can whether you relapse or not.
I think some may have had a bad Thanksgiving and are not looking forward to Christmas either. For you I wish you some lifting of whatever has you under stress. I have had some people make a wrong assumption that I am an optimist and always look on the bright side of others. As a son/father/friend/husband/senior leader/junior follower I have found one truth. That people will live up to, or down to, our expectations of them every time. The ones like me who expect good things are encouraging and get that. We are also projecting who and what we are internally. So are those who expect others to live down to their low expectations.
Insofar as the labeling of others as amateur psychologists here and elsewhere, I can understand that feeling if you are a professional who can make that evaluation by being a psychologist yourself and are peer reviewing our credentials. I have met counselors who are not Doctorates (You have to have a PhD to call yourself a Psychologist) and are paraprofessionals who are some of the best counselors I have seen and get terrific results. I have also seen doctorates who could not counsel their way out of a paper bag.
But I can tell you the qualifications I see in each of you here. I see the qualifications of the wounded healer here, as well as the compassion and passion we can have in that attempt to help others while we heal ourselves. Ok, so some are maybe a little over the top in their passion here. Fine.
The greatest value I find here are the very differences in perceptions and ways to articulate them. I have had some like my posts, while I have had some take offense by misreading them and asking if that is what I meant. I got to explain in those cases but perhaps not in all of them if they didn't ask me. But for those who don't like mine there is another right behind it from another, written from another [perspective, in different words, perhaps the same thing, that may help.
Our greatest strength is in our diversity here. If one of us isn't reaching that person asking and their lives hanging in the balance the next person to post might make it all clear. No one of us will be all things to all people.
I certainly would not want that responsibility or to have to try to be all things to all people. I will also keep an open mind, but not so open my brains fall out. There are people I will not keep company with, and others who won't with me. That is good as it is enough, and I have enough.
I like our successes, let's agree to keep trying, and while we are at it, agree to disagree with the same camaraderie we have when we agree. They are two sides to the same coin right?
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 609
I don't really like semantics either. But I don't distinguish between a 'slip' and a 'relapse' either. And I don't believe that a relapse is 'part of recovery'. Not everyone relapses. But a proportion will before being able to maintain solid abstinence. If you do relapse, it's not really productive to beat yourself up over it, rather to try and learn what you can from it and move on. Relapses don't suddenly just happen, they build up and on reflection you can often see that and practice 'relapse prevention' in the future. Having the drink is really just the end stage of the process. I relapsed several times before finally accepting that I couldn't drink safely at all. (I have known people who have avoided relapse altogether.) I myself began to think I would always be 'relapse prone' but have now managed two years, I'm very glad I kept trying and wouldn't give up.
You need to actively work on some form of recovery, recovery/sobriety is more than just being abstinent from the substance. If you are still retaining the mindset and mentality of an active drinker, that's not very satisfying recovery.
You need to actively work on some form of recovery, recovery/sobriety is more than just being abstinent from the substance. If you are still retaining the mindset and mentality of an active drinker, that's not very satisfying recovery.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
My thoughts, and JUST my thoughts, coming from my own experiences in life, addiction and recovery.
I have "issues" surrounding the idea of control.
I am examining how my ideas about control have led me to make certain choices in life. I consider that to be recovery.
I got into recovery before I got clean. A lot of people have their own opinion on that, but that is my experience.
I am the only one who could really discern whether or not I was/am an addict, and I am the only one who can really discern what is or is not recovery for me.
Things happen in life, they are like coins we collect and we can choose how or where we spend or save them. I can take this coin and put it into my recovery account or my active addiction account, it's up to me. I can use a given experience as an excuse to use, or an incentive to stay clean and deal with the situation rather than focus on my feelings about the situation.
I can use my last fix as an excuse to throw in the towel and get wasted ad infinitum, or I can use it as the reason I will truly NEVER go there again. It is up to me how I deposit it, into my active addiction account or my recovery account.
Everything I read here or hear in a meeting, I can choose how I use it. etc etc.
So, people can come here, read this thread and if they want to, they can use it as an "excuse" to relapse (so and so said it was ok...) or as impetus to never pick up again. NO one here is qualified to tell anyone else how to recover, we are only ever qualified to tell how WE recover.
Is relapse OK? That is an impossible question, like asking if it is OK that the sky is blue. Relapse is a reality, so are relationships, bills, laughs, and upset stomachs. All things that happen, and we choose how to react to them.
Planning a relapse would hardly fit into most of our ideas of recovery behavior. Relapses, as far as I am concerned are not recovery "sick days" you get five a year and if you actually use them as personal days, it's up to you. They have happened in my recovery, and I stood there with the coin in my hand and decided what I was going to do with it, put it into my active addiction account, or my recovery account. There have been times I chose each.
I am not being flip. All this is serious business, people die. I've come very close, and I sure enough have lost very many other things that made my life worth living due to my using. But it's not my job to tell you or anyone else if relapse is "OK". I have no idea what role it may or may not play in anyone else's recovery journey. I only can speak to the role it has played in mine.
If you hold the addiction as disease model as useful, then consider this...a diabetic decides to stop using their insulin and eat a chocolate cake. Is that OK?
A cancer patient skips chemo. Is that OK?
A couple is divorcing but sometimes they get lonely and get together for sex...is that OK?
I would say it depends on what result they are after.
If my plan is to never use again...using isn't getting me any closer to fine.
I have "issues" surrounding the idea of control.
I am examining how my ideas about control have led me to make certain choices in life. I consider that to be recovery.
I got into recovery before I got clean. A lot of people have their own opinion on that, but that is my experience.
I am the only one who could really discern whether or not I was/am an addict, and I am the only one who can really discern what is or is not recovery for me.
Things happen in life, they are like coins we collect and we can choose how or where we spend or save them. I can take this coin and put it into my recovery account or my active addiction account, it's up to me. I can use a given experience as an excuse to use, or an incentive to stay clean and deal with the situation rather than focus on my feelings about the situation.
I can use my last fix as an excuse to throw in the towel and get wasted ad infinitum, or I can use it as the reason I will truly NEVER go there again. It is up to me how I deposit it, into my active addiction account or my recovery account.
Everything I read here or hear in a meeting, I can choose how I use it. etc etc.
So, people can come here, read this thread and if they want to, they can use it as an "excuse" to relapse (so and so said it was ok...) or as impetus to never pick up again. NO one here is qualified to tell anyone else how to recover, we are only ever qualified to tell how WE recover.
Is relapse OK? That is an impossible question, like asking if it is OK that the sky is blue. Relapse is a reality, so are relationships, bills, laughs, and upset stomachs. All things that happen, and we choose how to react to them.
Planning a relapse would hardly fit into most of our ideas of recovery behavior. Relapses, as far as I am concerned are not recovery "sick days" you get five a year and if you actually use them as personal days, it's up to you. They have happened in my recovery, and I stood there with the coin in my hand and decided what I was going to do with it, put it into my active addiction account, or my recovery account. There have been times I chose each.
I am not being flip. All this is serious business, people die. I've come very close, and I sure enough have lost very many other things that made my life worth living due to my using. But it's not my job to tell you or anyone else if relapse is "OK". I have no idea what role it may or may not play in anyone else's recovery journey. I only can speak to the role it has played in mine.
If you hold the addiction as disease model as useful, then consider this...a diabetic decides to stop using their insulin and eat a chocolate cake. Is that OK?
A cancer patient skips chemo. Is that OK?
A couple is divorcing but sometimes they get lonely and get together for sex...is that OK?
I would say it depends on what result they are after.
If my plan is to never use again...using isn't getting me any closer to fine.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
I warned ya, brother!
On the bright side, it seems there's universal agreement on the most important thing: don't drink.
On the bright side, it seems there's universal agreement on the most important thing: don't drink.
Arguing on the internet is a rather fruitless endeavor. You really can't win one way or the other. It's simply a waste of time.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
Perhaps all that can be said is that a relapse is the consequence of a failure to follow a consistent program of recovery. It happens but it need not happen. When it happens it is invariably risky and the risk increases exponentially with the passage of time and the age of the person. It is like an automobile wreck. It should be avoided but it does not rule out the possibility of repair.
W.
W.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Things happen in life, they are like coins we collect and we can choose how or where we spend or save them. I can take this coin and put it into my recovery account or my active addiction account, it's up to me. I can use a given experience as an excuse to use, or an incentive to stay clean and deal with the situation rather than focus on my feelings about the situation.
We all of us addicts have issues concerning control, almost by definition. I believe that our locus of control will point us to our own path to sobriety.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rocky Mountains, USA
Posts: 344
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses.
I asked about relapse because it feels or felt to me like sort of a boogie man, something that was lurking out there that could happen to make me fail. I don't want to drink, ever. I'm very afraid of the idea of relapse. The way the word is used rather casually in some circles made me very nervous. I'm such a black-and-white person, all or nothing, that this alcohol thing is either YES (till death) or NO (never ever)/ I have trouble with lingo like "relapse" "slip up" or "falling off the wagon" because I feel like I can't forgive myself one more f***up in many years of catastrophic mistakes.
Your input made me understand better. I agree that drinking again is really just a continuation of drinking behavior.
I asked about relapse because it feels or felt to me like sort of a boogie man, something that was lurking out there that could happen to make me fail. I don't want to drink, ever. I'm very afraid of the idea of relapse. The way the word is used rather casually in some circles made me very nervous. I'm such a black-and-white person, all or nothing, that this alcohol thing is either YES (till death) or NO (never ever)/ I have trouble with lingo like "relapse" "slip up" or "falling off the wagon" because I feel like I can't forgive myself one more f***up in many years of catastrophic mistakes.
Your input made me understand better. I agree that drinking again is really just a continuation of drinking behavior.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,444
I asked about relapse because it feels or felt to me like sort of a boogie man, something that was lurking out there that could happen to make me fail.
It's not always easy not to want to raise that glass to our lips, especially in the early days - but that's where plans, effort and commitment - and support - comes into it, I think.
You're not alone here Samantha - and you can do this
D
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