In a mess and can't accept aa
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Sooner State
Posts: 1,725
Originally Posted by CarolD 
Welcome back.....
Any member of AA who tries to convert a person to JW
is not following the AA program.
I do hope you find your way into recovery
no it does not have to be AA.
Any member of AA who tries to convert a person to JW
is not following the AA program.
I do hope you find your way into recovery
no it does not have to be AA.
What is jw? I'm assuming jehovas witness??
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 413
"have not looked at this forum since then coz I could control my alcohol intake!!!"
I dont think this is possible.
This is a trap that I have fallen into many many times. You kid yourself into thinking that its under control and end up going on even bigger benders over time.
Give yourself as much support as you can possibly get. Gud luck
I dont think this is possible.
This is a trap that I have fallen into many many times. You kid yourself into thinking that its under control and end up going on even bigger benders over time.
Give yourself as much support as you can possibly get. Gud luck
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 274
Hi Womble,
I see that you found another recovery plan, this is great news! put all you're heart and soul and energy into it and over time you're find it will get easier. Those first days can be brutal I know I've been there and it sucks. I also found in my early recovery was I read everything I could get my hands on about alcoholism, knowledge helps me stay sober. Plus You'll get lot's of support hear on SR, with good information and advice. You can do this!
Best wishes, and I hope you find your path in sobriety.
I see that you found another recovery plan, this is great news! put all you're heart and soul and energy into it and over time you're find it will get easier. Those first days can be brutal I know I've been there and it sucks. I also found in my early recovery was I read everything I could get my hands on about alcoholism, knowledge helps me stay sober. Plus You'll get lot's of support hear on SR, with good information and advice. You can do this!
Best wishes, and I hope you find your path in sobriety.
Wombling Free
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 60
Thanks for the encouragement floks, it really helps.
Day 2 accomplished, got cravings as usual at 4pm but went for a Thai Massage and a Big Mac, I can't drink beer on a full stomach and know that to get my "fix" my tummy needs to be empty....so I may well get fat, but that is not really important right now.
I just can't belive I'm actually "DOING IT"
Yesterday I resigned as a moderator from the biggest ex-pat forum in Asia. I told them why and got loads of pm's of support and saying that I wold be welcome back once I had sorted myself out and that I was doing the right thing. This also meant a lot to me.
So I don't fear today as much, but I have a healthy respect of the fact that my mind can lull me into a false sense of security, so I have to still be on full alert and work my new programme.
JW does stand for Jehova's Witnesses, and their recruitment programme is alive and well within the aa programme where I live.
Thank you all
Womble
Day 2 accomplished, got cravings as usual at 4pm but went for a Thai Massage and a Big Mac, I can't drink beer on a full stomach and know that to get my "fix" my tummy needs to be empty....so I may well get fat, but that is not really important right now.
I just can't belive I'm actually "DOING IT"
Yesterday I resigned as a moderator from the biggest ex-pat forum in Asia. I told them why and got loads of pm's of support and saying that I wold be welcome back once I had sorted myself out and that I was doing the right thing. This also meant a lot to me.
So I don't fear today as much, but I have a healthy respect of the fact that my mind can lull me into a false sense of security, so I have to still be on full alert and work my new programme.
JW does stand for Jehova's Witnesses, and their recruitment programme is alive and well within the aa programme where I live.
Thank you all
Womble
SR Fan
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 7,910
Congrats on day 2 - yea!!!!
It's good that you're aware of getting sucked back in - but every day will also make you a little stronger. There's nothing like waking up without a hangover and knowing you made it another day. You can do it!
It's good that you're aware of getting sucked back in - but every day will also make you a little stronger. There's nothing like waking up without a hangover and knowing you made it another day. You can do it!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: dayton, oh
Posts: 487
Wombe
people get sober with all sorts of programs. Start some recovery program, make up your personalized plan and keep adding to it as you get stronger. I didn't add SR until I was a year sober, and I'm so glad I did. We are glad you're here.
meredith
people get sober with all sorts of programs. Start some recovery program, make up your personalized plan and keep adding to it as you get stronger. I didn't add SR until I was a year sober, and I'm so glad I did. We are glad you're here.
meredith
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
Sorry to hear that the AA program is infiltrated by JW's where you are. I can say that where I am people generally hate organized religion and you will get the opposite in meetings.
I also am familiar with the expat life! Yeah, I also frequent expat websites and have experienced being a recovering alcoholic in expat communities: it's quite the experience.
That said, yes AA IS a faith based program. But the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, makes it extremely clear that you are encouraged to find a faith of your own personal understanding. The Big Book also makes it clear that AA is never to be affiliated with any church or organized religion. AA meetings must adhere to the 12 traditions: if outside religious groups have taken over, they are breaking these traditions:
Two—For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
Four—Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.
So, if JW's have taken over the meetings where you are: they are breaking one of the most golden rules of AA. And, I hope someone identifies that problem and corrects it. The fact is that people can often mess up an AA meeting and make it into something it is not supposed to be. I attend a newly formed women's AA meeting and frankly, it is not set up correctly. It is essentially a whine hate men session full of psychotherapy and was started by a gal with less than a year of sobriety. I end up going there to try and enforce the principles of AA and find myself swimming upstream quite often. I think when they see me coming, they probably think: oh no, here comes the AA sheriff.....
For any other AA-ers out there, I think this thread is a reminder that we must always try to keep our meetings by the book, and steer clear of outside agendas.
I also am familiar with the expat life! Yeah, I also frequent expat websites and have experienced being a recovering alcoholic in expat communities: it's quite the experience.
That said, yes AA IS a faith based program. But the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, makes it extremely clear that you are encouraged to find a faith of your own personal understanding. The Big Book also makes it clear that AA is never to be affiliated with any church or organized religion. AA meetings must adhere to the 12 traditions: if outside religious groups have taken over, they are breaking these traditions:
Two—For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
Four—Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.
So, if JW's have taken over the meetings where you are: they are breaking one of the most golden rules of AA. And, I hope someone identifies that problem and corrects it. The fact is that people can often mess up an AA meeting and make it into something it is not supposed to be. I attend a newly formed women's AA meeting and frankly, it is not set up correctly. It is essentially a whine hate men session full of psychotherapy and was started by a gal with less than a year of sobriety. I end up going there to try and enforce the principles of AA and find myself swimming upstream quite often. I think when they see me coming, they probably think: oh no, here comes the AA sheriff.....
For any other AA-ers out there, I think this thread is a reminder that we must always try to keep our meetings by the book, and steer clear of outside agendas.
Wombling Free
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 60
Hi Littlefish.
The JW's have not taken over the meeting, they are just hanging around preying on newcomers that have trouble with the HP question. They think they are trying to help, and they have had some success, but I wonder if they are really alcoholics at all. the guy that tried to convert me had been a JW all his life, these people don't drink ...do they? So they fabricate their recovery stories to fit in.
My ex-home group are about to be kicked outta their home where they have been since 1973 because there was to much physical violence and the police got involved and one guy ended up in ER.
IMO this is NOT an agenda for recovery, I am not a violent person, even when drunk, I was a happy drunk, and am pretty outgoing and would never start a fight , but feel intimidated by all the threats that fly round those rooms.
It is a crying shame it has come to this, many people will die from alcoholism as a result.
This is why I am searching out new ways to keep sober, and so far its working, but if I make today that will be just 3, there is a long way to go before the obsession / craving is lifted. I know because I have been blindly travelling this road before, doing the same things and expecting different results, well this time NO.
I'm trying a new route, if I fail I will have to re-visit my other options.
I hope there is no need as my determination is very strong ...as I write
The JW's have not taken over the meeting, they are just hanging around preying on newcomers that have trouble with the HP question. They think they are trying to help, and they have had some success, but I wonder if they are really alcoholics at all. the guy that tried to convert me had been a JW all his life, these people don't drink ...do they? So they fabricate their recovery stories to fit in.
My ex-home group are about to be kicked outta their home where they have been since 1973 because there was to much physical violence and the police got involved and one guy ended up in ER.
IMO this is NOT an agenda for recovery, I am not a violent person, even when drunk, I was a happy drunk, and am pretty outgoing and would never start a fight , but feel intimidated by all the threats that fly round those rooms.
It is a crying shame it has come to this, many people will die from alcoholism as a result.
This is why I am searching out new ways to keep sober, and so far its working, but if I make today that will be just 3, there is a long way to go before the obsession / craving is lifted. I know because I have been blindly travelling this road before, doing the same things and expecting different results, well this time NO.
I'm trying a new route, if I fail I will have to re-visit my other options.
I hope there is no need as my determination is very strong ...as I write
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
Good heavens Womble, that is one of the worst descriptions of AA I have ever heard.
I am truly sorry that AA is in such a mess where you are.
I feel sorry because AA has essentially saved my life. AA is a wonderful fellowship with amazing people (without a religious agenda) where I live and I am so grateful to be a part of it.
What I mean by saved my life is not that I would be dead today, but that I would have continued to not be alive.
I wish the best for you and hope you find a program of support and structure that helps you stay sober.
I am truly sorry that AA is in such a mess where you are.
I feel sorry because AA has essentially saved my life. AA is a wonderful fellowship with amazing people (without a religious agenda) where I live and I am so grateful to be a part of it.
What I mean by saved my life is not that I would be dead today, but that I would have continued to not be alive.
I wish the best for you and hope you find a program of support and structure that helps you stay sober.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
If you ever research the history of AA in it's formative years, the real alkies actually broke away from where it began, Alcoholism is Primary.
Therefore no matter what others try to do and form their own basis, at the end of the day when push comes to shove, no organised religeon is going to save the fate of the suffering alcoholic. To live, ( sober alcoholic ), one will eventually arrive to a place, "rock bottom" where there is is only 1 person to deal with, and that is you.
The book, "Alcoholic Anonymous" is what that path is about, the "where and how", from that place, "rock bottom".
Once all the calamity is sorted in the thinking, the delusions etc etc, are dusted away, then the "God" it mentions becomes clearer that it is not religion, ( man made structres ),
it is spiritual, meaning it is life itself and the principles in this life.
It's been talked about over and over again and again, Spirituality has nothing to do with organised religion, the 2 are seperate.
It may seem to be of one, that's the delusion.
What I'm saying is, this is not a preach, it's fact from many of our expiriences and no one need bat for AA, it holds it's own, because when it comes down to it, and one tries to beat the drinking game and do it on their own, and they were to write a book, my bet is they will still require the same principles, at least Steps 1 & 2. Then ya gonna want to talk about it, Step 12!
Powerless over alcohol, life unmanageable -- Power greater than yourself, will probably mean something more than what you have now, more than your own will power.
What then? When the urge to pick up that drink becomes overwhelming, and a JH or a tree or a rock or this forum can do nothing to stop it, what then?
And let's say you recover, and if you were to write about it, what would be the the Steps you took, so we can all share in your recovery.
Won't that be the same as AA? The Steps they took as written in the "Big Book" say's nothing about having to join anything, only a requirement to be willing to stop drinking.
Are you willing to stop drinking?
So, the next issue is the meetings as you have described.
All it takes to form a new group is a resentment, 2 alkies and coffee.
I know many who have formed their own group because the one they went to was not of their kind or like mindness. All in all though, everyone had the same dis-ease, alcoholism, physical craving coupled to a mental obsession.
Think of all the alkies that won't die because you formed a new group/meeting!!
You will be so busy you won't have time to think of a drink!!
That is spirituality, free to do what you want, and what could be more free than to form a new group/meeting with none of this JH crapola.
Nice people when they come to my door, I still offer them fresh cold water on a hot day, but that's it, thanks, but no thanks. I don't want to do what they do to stay sober!!
Therefore no matter what others try to do and form their own basis, at the end of the day when push comes to shove, no organised religeon is going to save the fate of the suffering alcoholic. To live, ( sober alcoholic ), one will eventually arrive to a place, "rock bottom" where there is is only 1 person to deal with, and that is you.
The book, "Alcoholic Anonymous" is what that path is about, the "where and how", from that place, "rock bottom".
Once all the calamity is sorted in the thinking, the delusions etc etc, are dusted away, then the "God" it mentions becomes clearer that it is not religion, ( man made structres ),
it is spiritual, meaning it is life itself and the principles in this life.
It's been talked about over and over again and again, Spirituality has nothing to do with organised religion, the 2 are seperate.
It may seem to be of one, that's the delusion.
What I'm saying is, this is not a preach, it's fact from many of our expiriences and no one need bat for AA, it holds it's own, because when it comes down to it, and one tries to beat the drinking game and do it on their own, and they were to write a book, my bet is they will still require the same principles, at least Steps 1 & 2. Then ya gonna want to talk about it, Step 12!
Powerless over alcohol, life unmanageable -- Power greater than yourself, will probably mean something more than what you have now, more than your own will power.
What then? When the urge to pick up that drink becomes overwhelming, and a JH or a tree or a rock or this forum can do nothing to stop it, what then?
And let's say you recover, and if you were to write about it, what would be the the Steps you took, so we can all share in your recovery.
Won't that be the same as AA? The Steps they took as written in the "Big Book" say's nothing about having to join anything, only a requirement to be willing to stop drinking.
Are you willing to stop drinking?
So, the next issue is the meetings as you have described.
All it takes to form a new group is a resentment, 2 alkies and coffee.
I know many who have formed their own group because the one they went to was not of their kind or like mindness. All in all though, everyone had the same dis-ease, alcoholism, physical craving coupled to a mental obsession.
It is a crying shame it has come to this, many people will die from alcoholism as a result.
You will be so busy you won't have time to think of a drink!!
That is spirituality, free to do what you want, and what could be more free than to form a new group/meeting with none of this JH crapola.
Nice people when they come to my door, I still offer them fresh cold water on a hot day, but that's it, thanks, but no thanks. I don't want to do what they do to stay sober!!
Wombling Free
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 60
Some very good points there Pete.
I have an aa buddy that I have kept in touch with throughout my 5 month relapse arriving back here next week and he was talking about starting a new group.
Could well be an answer for me to be involved Thanks
I have an aa buddy that I have kept in touch with throughout my 5 month relapse arriving back here next week and he was talking about starting a new group.
Could well be an answer for me to be involved Thanks
Wombling Free
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 60
Despite everything, and myself, I have found that aa is the ONLY way for me, I have been hospitalised for 6 nights after having a serious op on my ear , that would not have been neccassary had I not drunk on the anti-biotics the doc was giving me to start with, he was aghast when I told him I was drinking every day, and not just one beer. So the day I got addmitted I went to a different aa meeting where I was welcomed back with open arms, from there I went directly to hospital and they admitted me, after a CAT scan had shown that I had a lot of poison in my head they operated, and I still have a tube coming out of my head to relive the pressure, but since then and since I got out I have not drunk and am just about to go to another aa meeting, in fact the compulsion to drink has lifted, but I know that this is only short term while I am on so many meds to try and get rid of the "white noise" in my ear that is constantly making my life a misery...but .....was I given this problem on purpose by some kind of HP? I don't know but 11 days without a drink is my best in nearly a year, I will use different meetings, new ones have started since I left, I have a friend who rings me every day , even though I was out (what a guy) and he has offered to take me through the steps asap.
I can now look forward to a better life I hope. My BP is normal now, just a lot of pain in my head,I have lost weight. I just have to stop rejecting what worked for me before, get to as many meetings as I can and work the steps.
Maybe ,this time round I can do it, and stop being judgemental and accept the imperfections that aa has and deal with them, everyone was where I am now at some point, its having the guts to realise I am NOT God and that nothing in this world is perfect...including ME
Womble
I can now look forward to a better life I hope. My BP is normal now, just a lot of pain in my head,I have lost weight. I just have to stop rejecting what worked for me before, get to as many meetings as I can and work the steps.
Maybe ,this time round I can do it, and stop being judgemental and accept the imperfections that aa has and deal with them, everyone was where I am now at some point, its having the guts to realise I am NOT God and that nothing in this world is perfect...including ME
Womble
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 395
Originally Posted by Womble
Maybe ,this time round I can do it, and stop being judgemental and accept the imperfections that aa has and deal with them, everyone was where I am now at some point, its having the guts to realise I am NOT God and that nothing in this world is perfect...including ME
I am not excessively demanding (If I am then, then I don't realize it). However, I can fly off the handle when life doesn't bend to my little demands. Its the little one that get to me. It is another form of self-seeking and ego-centric behavior.
I have been trying to approach life casually rather than alcoholically. I am not perfect at it. I make mistakes, but today that is ok. I need to remind myself, that it is I who has to get along with the world, instead of approaching life in an alcoholic, all or nothing, self-seeking, ego-centric manner.
As for the HP and God thing, Jim B left us agnostics and atheists some great ES&H. And don't let the God thing pollute the spiritual principles. Those are very important.
For the new agnostic or atheist just coming in, I will try to give very briefly my milestones in recovery.
1.The first power I found greater than myself was John Barleycorn.
2.The A.A. Fellowship became my Higher Power for the first two years.
3.Gradually, I came to believe that God and Good were synonymous and were found in all of us.
4.And I found that by meditating and trying to tune in on my better self for guidance and answers, I became more comfortable and steady.
J.B., San Diego, California
A.A. History - Jim Burwell - Sober For Thirty Years
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 449
Originally Posted by Antiderivative
I don't believe in God, but I find a lot of value in the reminder that I am not God. I was never delusional enough to believe that I was some sort of God, but I am definitely an ego-centric, self-seeking alcoholic who "becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying" when the world and people do not give me what I want.
I am not excessively demanding (If I am then, then I don't realize it). However, I can fly off the handle when life doesn't bend to my little demands. Its the little one that get to me. It is another form of self-seeking and ego-centric behavior.
I have been trying to approach life casually rather than alcoholically. I am not perfect at it. I make mistakes, but today that is ok. I need to remind myself, that it is I who has to get along with the world, instead of approaching life in an alcoholic, all or nothing, self-seeking, ego-centric manner.
As for the HP and God thing, Jim B left us agnostics and atheists some great ES&H. And don't let the God thing pollute the spiritual principles. Those are very important.
For the new agnostic or atheist just coming in, I will try to give very briefly my milestones in recovery.
1.The first power I found greater than myself was John Barleycorn.
2.The A.A. Fellowship became my Higher Power for the first two years.
3.Gradually, I came to believe that God and Good were synonymous and were found in all of us.
4.And I found that by meditating and trying to tune in on my better self for guidance and answers, I became more comfortable and steady.
J.B., San Diego, California
A.A. History - Jim Burwell - Sober For Thirty Years
I am not excessively demanding (If I am then, then I don't realize it). However, I can fly off the handle when life doesn't bend to my little demands. Its the little one that get to me. It is another form of self-seeking and ego-centric behavior.
I have been trying to approach life casually rather than alcoholically. I am not perfect at it. I make mistakes, but today that is ok. I need to remind myself, that it is I who has to get along with the world, instead of approaching life in an alcoholic, all or nothing, self-seeking, ego-centric manner.
As for the HP and God thing, Jim B left us agnostics and atheists some great ES&H. And don't let the God thing pollute the spiritual principles. Those are very important.
For the new agnostic or atheist just coming in, I will try to give very briefly my milestones in recovery.
1.The first power I found greater than myself was John Barleycorn.
2.The A.A. Fellowship became my Higher Power for the first two years.
3.Gradually, I came to believe that God and Good were synonymous and were found in all of us.
4.And I found that by meditating and trying to tune in on my better self for guidance and answers, I became more comfortable and steady.
J.B., San Diego, California
A.A. History - Jim Burwell - Sober For Thirty Years
Like looking in the mirror. Thank you. The "Thank You" click didn't seem to suffice.
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