A rather obvious question w/o an obvious answer.....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 216
A rather obvious question w/o an obvious answer.....
This is _Not_ meant to dissuade anyone who has already quit or is quitting now!! But I have to ask the obvious question... Having quit several times in the past (upwards of 2 years (where I dropped from 177 lbs. to 135 lbs. for no good reason, just could not eat)), from what I could tell, there was No real difference in my life other than what "seemed" to me to be less enjoyment. When not drinking, I _know_ I am physically healthier, but I feel so hollow inside. Completely empty. Just a shell. When I drink, despite the health issues, I feel more calm, fullfilled, etc. I can do my tech job just fine as long as I drink only in the evening or weekends. Is this just my lower brain F#cking with me?? Is/Can life _truly_ be better without? When I am not drinking (i.e. now), I get _alot_ of exercise, but when I am home, I read abit, wander room to room, and just feel "empty", if that makes any sense. I put out my last cig. just over 10 years ago and that was trivial compared to putting down my last drink :-( Started to grow my "winter beard" and will not drink again until I shave it off, but I'd certainly prefer not to ever drink again; just having a darn time justifying to myself the rational behind quitting for life... My life is now not a terribly happy existance (despite a loving wife and nice place to live) and that is one of my few pleasures, to give it up completely just seems to make me more empty than I already am. Any input from more experienced, wiser people, I am way open to!! Any and all reponces will be gladly welcome. Thanks in advance for your time, you're a great group here!
Peace,
Mike
Peace,
Mike
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,784
Giving up alcohol was just the first part. I had to learn to live again, really 'live' a healthy life with a healthy attitude. I get a lot of help from my weekly sessions with my addiction counselor. I recommend counseling for help in learning how to live sober. 
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 385
Exactly!
I drank for the effect, which was to relieve that sense of emptiness (or self hatred or whatever you wish to call it). I was only comfortable in my own skin when I was under the influence of mind/mood altering substances.
when I became a member of AA I heard people talking about that "hole in their gut," that emptiness that they continually tried to fill up with stuff...not only alcohol, but money, property, prestige, relationships, work, food, etc. While alcohol covered up that emptiness for me, it never filled me up, nor did any of the other things I tried. That is until I came to understand that the emptiness I felt was of a spiritual nature...an inner condition that I could not solve from the outside.
AA offers only a spiritual awakening. By being willing to accept outside help via the AA 12 step program, I was able to do the inside work on myself. It took time, effort and perseverence to learn a new design for living. I no longer experience that emptiness. I no longer need to be entertained by outside influences. I am at peace...happy, joyous and free.
I tried so many different solutions, from therapy to mystical experiences, transformational seminars, etc. etc. Finally, it was AA that opened the door for me to learn to love myself. It was, in the final analysis, that self love that I'd been missing....that caused my sense of emptiness. And the real blessing is that once I'd come to love myself....I was able to pass that love on to others who were also suffering from that emptiness.
blessings
zenbear
I drank for the effect, which was to relieve that sense of emptiness (or self hatred or whatever you wish to call it). I was only comfortable in my own skin when I was under the influence of mind/mood altering substances.
when I became a member of AA I heard people talking about that "hole in their gut," that emptiness that they continually tried to fill up with stuff...not only alcohol, but money, property, prestige, relationships, work, food, etc. While alcohol covered up that emptiness for me, it never filled me up, nor did any of the other things I tried. That is until I came to understand that the emptiness I felt was of a spiritual nature...an inner condition that I could not solve from the outside.
AA offers only a spiritual awakening. By being willing to accept outside help via the AA 12 step program, I was able to do the inside work on myself. It took time, effort and perseverence to learn a new design for living. I no longer experience that emptiness. I no longer need to be entertained by outside influences. I am at peace...happy, joyous and free.
I tried so many different solutions, from therapy to mystical experiences, transformational seminars, etc. etc. Finally, it was AA that opened the door for me to learn to love myself. It was, in the final analysis, that self love that I'd been missing....that caused my sense of emptiness. And the real blessing is that once I'd come to love myself....I was able to pass that love on to others who were also suffering from that emptiness.
blessings
zenbear
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,013
Hey man. I think it's a very valid question and one that certainly many people have.
For me then I was so deeply unhappy with my existance of being a drunk that I reached a point of no turning back, so to speak. I knew I had to get sober and put my all into recovery or else I knew I would either die, go to prison or get sectioned under the mental health act. There really were no other options for me. Homelessness would be the only option if I had continued to drink, which incidentallly whilst in my lowest drunks towards the end of my drinking, I seriously considered and thought that it wouldn't be so bad to drink myself to death. That was where my drinking took me. It took me to a dark place but I had to commit to recovery 100% and really work on changing myself profoundly.
I used and continue to use AA, SR and much wisdom from elsewhere and reffered myself to the community mental health services to address underlying issues that I had blocked out for many years with drink and drugs.
I had real faith that those before me were telling me the truth. I saw at AA how people's lives can be transformed and I saw it too here at SR. I also have many comedians who I really respect and look up to who also are recovering alcoholics and addicts, who have turned it around. Musically, then most of my hero's died through drink and drugs or if not got sober.
I accepted that alcoholism is primarily a 'thinking' problem and not a drinking problem. I needed a program for living and for my thinking and attitude to be profoundly changed so that I was a different person to the 'old' me. I got this through my chosen recovery path but I had to work at it. I had many difficult patches but I stayed sober 'just for today' and worked through them.
I was willing to do what I had to do to reach the stage where I was content, happy and at peace with myself living in the present moment and where I am at. I merely don't drink 'just for today' and have 14+ months of sobriety now and my life is improving 'one day at a time'. Alcohol and drugs play no part in my life anymore but I had no reservations that I could ever drink 'normally'. I was always a messy, blackout drunk. Debauchery was how I liked. All or Nothing.
All The Best
For me then I was so deeply unhappy with my existance of being a drunk that I reached a point of no turning back, so to speak. I knew I had to get sober and put my all into recovery or else I knew I would either die, go to prison or get sectioned under the mental health act. There really were no other options for me. Homelessness would be the only option if I had continued to drink, which incidentallly whilst in my lowest drunks towards the end of my drinking, I seriously considered and thought that it wouldn't be so bad to drink myself to death. That was where my drinking took me. It took me to a dark place but I had to commit to recovery 100% and really work on changing myself profoundly.
I used and continue to use AA, SR and much wisdom from elsewhere and reffered myself to the community mental health services to address underlying issues that I had blocked out for many years with drink and drugs.
I had real faith that those before me were telling me the truth. I saw at AA how people's lives can be transformed and I saw it too here at SR. I also have many comedians who I really respect and look up to who also are recovering alcoholics and addicts, who have turned it around. Musically, then most of my hero's died through drink and drugs or if not got sober.
I accepted that alcoholism is primarily a 'thinking' problem and not a drinking problem. I needed a program for living and for my thinking and attitude to be profoundly changed so that I was a different person to the 'old' me. I got this through my chosen recovery path but I had to work at it. I had many difficult patches but I stayed sober 'just for today' and worked through them.
I was willing to do what I had to do to reach the stage where I was content, happy and at peace with myself living in the present moment and where I am at. I merely don't drink 'just for today' and have 14+ months of sobriety now and my life is improving 'one day at a time'. Alcohol and drugs play no part in my life anymore but I had no reservations that I could ever drink 'normally'. I was always a messy, blackout drunk. Debauchery was how I liked. All or Nothing.
All The Best
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 216
Thank you Least, you have always been insprirational to me! And Zbear, thank you too, All AA meetings are far from me but, it seems, I cannot let that be an excuse any longer. Clearly, I need some outside support.... I tried counsoling (sp?) twice with disasterous results as both counsoulers had decided what my issues were before I even walked in the door. Seems it is just a matter of keeping searching until I find someone on the same wavelength who can help me out abit. My insurance covers all that so money is no excuse. Sigh... Been such a long time, but, never to old to change I suppose! Thank you both for your insightful answers and support, all are greatly appreciated!
Peace,
..Mike
Peace,
..Mike
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 216
Thank you too Neomarxist! Just saw your reply and it also was very insightful and helpful. Describes to a T how I feel most days! The best word in your reply was "profoundly"... That's the kind of change I need in my life at this point in order to change my decades old behavior... Painful, but change often is. Like you, I just know I cannot continue like this and alcohol is like a cheap hooker, easy, quick, and ultimately, immensely unfullfilling when you get down to the bottom line.
Thank you,
Mike
Thank you,
Mike
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
Mike,
I hear you - I felt the same way. Speaking only of my experience I am realizing how much I was living in ignorance while drinking. Ignorance in the sense of actively ignoring the things that made me uncomfortable. It was easier to drink to make them "go away" for a while than to deal with them head on. I only quit drinking when I believed that the pain of drinking exceeded whatever other pain I was avoiding (and I didn't have a good grip on what they were, just that they existed). Let me tell you, my "moment of clarity" was not blissful, seeing the light, and hope - it was utter dispair.
My sponsor has told me alcoholism is a disease of loneliness that we try to treat with isolation. In many ways drinking for me was a key part of my coping strategy with my demons, and it was enjoyable for a long time. If you are an active alcoholic and live long enough to reach this point physiologically, you will find that you initially need several drinks just to function and the old "sweet spot" of being comfortably numb gets so short it becomes impossible to get and stay there.
From your post, it sounds to me like your diseased brain is telling you that you can drink again like you did in the past. The problem is that you eventually won't - it may take a week, a month or years, but alcholism is progressive and you will eventually get to the point that it either kills you or you quit for good.
My advice would be to get involved with AA - for real. If you follow the steps, even if you doubt (I absolutely thought some of it was so much BS when I began), you will get past this rut that you find yourself in. If you honestly try AA (and by that I mean make it your first priority) and it doesn't work, what have you lost?
Mike, you are not alone, and what you are feeling is normal. Go to as many meetings as you can and find one that you like best, get a sponsor you trust and can identify with, and work the steps. The AA promises are yours if you work for them.
Best wishes,
Eddie
I hear you - I felt the same way. Speaking only of my experience I am realizing how much I was living in ignorance while drinking. Ignorance in the sense of actively ignoring the things that made me uncomfortable. It was easier to drink to make them "go away" for a while than to deal with them head on. I only quit drinking when I believed that the pain of drinking exceeded whatever other pain I was avoiding (and I didn't have a good grip on what they were, just that they existed). Let me tell you, my "moment of clarity" was not blissful, seeing the light, and hope - it was utter dispair.
My sponsor has told me alcoholism is a disease of loneliness that we try to treat with isolation. In many ways drinking for me was a key part of my coping strategy with my demons, and it was enjoyable for a long time. If you are an active alcoholic and live long enough to reach this point physiologically, you will find that you initially need several drinks just to function and the old "sweet spot" of being comfortably numb gets so short it becomes impossible to get and stay there.
From your post, it sounds to me like your diseased brain is telling you that you can drink again like you did in the past. The problem is that you eventually won't - it may take a week, a month or years, but alcholism is progressive and you will eventually get to the point that it either kills you or you quit for good.
My advice would be to get involved with AA - for real. If you follow the steps, even if you doubt (I absolutely thought some of it was so much BS when I began), you will get past this rut that you find yourself in. If you honestly try AA (and by that I mean make it your first priority) and it doesn't work, what have you lost?
Mike, you are not alone, and what you are feeling is normal. Go to as many meetings as you can and find one that you like best, get a sponsor you trust and can identify with, and work the steps. The AA promises are yours if you work for them.
Best wishes,
Eddie
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Good to see you again BC....
I found sobriety in D.C. AA years ago.
No meetings in Chantilly ? That's odd.
This number may be out of date...but...
703-281-7501
No. Va. AA Intergroup
AA is an awesome adventure for living well....
All my best to you and Mrs. Mike
I found sobriety in D.C. AA years ago.
No meetings in Chantilly ? That's odd.
This number may be out of date...but...
703-281-7501
No. Va. AA Intergroup
AA is an awesome adventure for living well....
All my best to you and Mrs. Mike
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,513
The 'empty' feeling was definitely there with me.
I knew, without a doubt, that I had to find a way to deal with that. For me, it meant reconnecting spiritually. I knew absolutely that I would not be able to recover unless I filled the empty place.
I hope that you can find peace!
I knew, without a doubt, that I had to find a way to deal with that. For me, it meant reconnecting spiritually. I knew absolutely that I would not be able to recover unless I filled the empty place.
I hope that you can find peace!
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
Mike,
Your're seeking help from the experienced and wise...I'm only experienced in drinking and relapsing. If I was wise, I wouldn't be in my current situation. You wrote:
"will not drink again until I shave it off,
but I'd certainly prefer not to ever drink again"
If you give yourself an out, such as a time limit, you defeat the reasoning behind quitting. Whenever I set a time limit on drinking, or stopped until a doctor told me I was healthy, I'd drink. And usually before my time limit got there. The 'voices' what you call the lower brain, always talked me into it. This last time I wrote in big letters, I will not drink, EVER. And so far so good. Dispite what my booze brain is telling me. It wants me to drink to make itself happy off of my misery. I won't let it.
Your're seeking help from the experienced and wise...I'm only experienced in drinking and relapsing. If I was wise, I wouldn't be in my current situation. You wrote:
"will not drink again until I shave it off,
but I'd certainly prefer not to ever drink again"
If you give yourself an out, such as a time limit, you defeat the reasoning behind quitting. Whenever I set a time limit on drinking, or stopped until a doctor told me I was healthy, I'd drink. And usually before my time limit got there. The 'voices' what you call the lower brain, always talked me into it. This last time I wrote in big letters, I will not drink, EVER. And so far so good. Dispite what my booze brain is telling me. It wants me to drink to make itself happy off of my misery. I won't let it.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by doggonecarl 
Mike,
Your're seeking help from the experienced and wise...I'm only experienced in drinking and relapsing. If I was wise, I wouldn't be in my current situation. You wrote:
"will not drink again until I shave it off,
but I'd certainly prefer not to ever drink again"
If you give yourself an out, such as a time limit, you defeat the reasoning behind quitting. Whenever I set a time limit on drinking, or stopped until a doctor told me I was healthy, I'd drink. And usually before my time limit got there. The 'voices' what you call the lower brain, always talked me into it. This last time I wrote in big letters, I will not drink, EVER. And so far so good. Dispite what my booze brain is telling me. It wants me to drink to make itself happy off of my misery. I won't let it.
Your're seeking help from the experienced and wise...I'm only experienced in drinking and relapsing. If I was wise, I wouldn't be in my current situation. You wrote:
"will not drink again until I shave it off,
but I'd certainly prefer not to ever drink again"
If you give yourself an out, such as a time limit, you defeat the reasoning behind quitting. Whenever I set a time limit on drinking, or stopped until a doctor told me I was healthy, I'd drink. And usually before my time limit got there. The 'voices' what you call the lower brain, always talked me into it. This last time I wrote in big letters, I will not drink, EVER. And so far so good. Dispite what my booze brain is telling me. It wants me to drink to make itself happy off of my misery. I won't let it.
That doesn't address the issue of the "hole inside" that he's talking about, but it IS something I found to be true.
I think the "hole inside" can only be filled by having a spiritual awakening. I'm not there yet, but I'm finally on the road, and believe that it will come.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 216
Thank you so much Eddie, Carol, Anna (who is _Always_ there!), Carl, and Cat, you have _all_ been so supportive and all so helpful! My life is a mess and it should _NOT_ be so!! I have everything a person could want!! I appreciate all of your responces. Especially Eddie, I realize that dispite my job, neighbors, etc., I am profoundly lonely and alcohol is my "friend" in that regard as it just numbs me. i.e. I need _Better_ friends than alcohol!!
Thank you _all_ for your replies, they were all a great help and inspiration, rest assured that I _Will_ keep trying!! Lying down but _always_ getting back up....
Peace,
...Mike
Thank you _all_ for your replies, they were all a great help and inspiration, rest assured that I _Will_ keep trying!! Lying down but _always_ getting back up....
Peace,
...Mike
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,058
BC...I could relate to what you are feeling. What I found helpful to kickstart this new life and way of looking at things was getting some counseling for myself. I had problems that were being drowned out by the alcohol if I didn't address these underlying issues then sobriety would never stick.
There is good advice here and I am glad you shared. I think you need some support and some guidance in making the positive changes.
I'm glad you came and posted my friend!
There is good advice here and I am glad you shared. I think you need some support and some guidance in making the positive changes.
I'm glad you came and posted my friend!
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
BC, I don't know if you're "into" AA (or willing to explore the possibility), but here's my experience.
I just celebrated two years without a drink. I've been in AA from the start. HOWEVER, I never "worked" the Twelve Steps. I thought about them, read about them, tried to incorporate bits of them into my life. But after two years of not drinking, I still feel the same "hole" that probably contributed a great deal to my turning to drinking in the first place. I don't feel like I'm about to pick up a drink, but if your life sucks, it is sort of the default, go-to response we alcoholics have.
SO, I finally decided to follow instructions. Because just doing nothing besides not drinking isn't getting me where I wanna go. I want that "happy, joyous, and free" that the recovered alcoholics I know have.
Just something to mull over as you contemplate where to go from here.
I just celebrated two years without a drink. I've been in AA from the start. HOWEVER, I never "worked" the Twelve Steps. I thought about them, read about them, tried to incorporate bits of them into my life. But after two years of not drinking, I still feel the same "hole" that probably contributed a great deal to my turning to drinking in the first place. I don't feel like I'm about to pick up a drink, but if your life sucks, it is sort of the default, go-to response we alcoholics have.
SO, I finally decided to follow instructions. Because just doing nothing besides not drinking isn't getting me where I wanna go. I want that "happy, joyous, and free" that the recovered alcoholics I know have.
Just something to mull over as you contemplate where to go from here.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
Hi Mike
I think at least the first 90 days or so are pretty up and down - or they were with me - so if you're basing what the rest of your sober life may be like on now, you might be doing yourself a disservice.
That being said, these other guys have a point. Just stopping drinking was never the solution for me.
I had other stuff going on with me - what I, and I see a few others, called a void.
That takes work, and it take time - but I glad I worked on it because I really am, for the first time in my adult life, happy - and sober to boot
D
I think at least the first 90 days or so are pretty up and down - or they were with me - so if you're basing what the rest of your sober life may be like on now, you might be doing yourself a disservice.
That being said, these other guys have a point. Just stopping drinking was never the solution for me.
I had other stuff going on with me - what I, and I see a few others, called a void.
That takes work, and it take time - but I glad I worked on it because I really am, for the first time in my adult life, happy - and sober to boot
D
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