The addiction cure...If only
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 219
Originally Posted by susanlauren 
The book does not advocate going back to using addictive substances after one becomes sober. In fact, the exact opposite is true. The book is very clear that one cannot ever drink or use again. As I understood it, "cure" means living a sober/clean life healed from the underlying causes and conditions.
In AA, one says, My name is .... and I am an alcoholic. It is understood that once one becomes alcoholic, one is always alcoholic. Remission is the best one can hope for even if one deals with the underlying causes and conditions. AA seems to say we can never fully or completely or permanently deal with our underlying causes and conditions.
The book approaches it from the standpoint of My name is .... and I am a beautiful, unique, precious human being. I once used alcohol/drugs in an abusive/dependent manner but since I have dealt with the underlying reasons for my addictive behavior, I no longer use alcohol/drugs. I am cured from my addiction.
The book does not accept the "disease concept". It views alcohol dependence as more of a maladaptive behavior brought on by underlying causes (alcohol dependence as a symptom of something else like trauma, abandonment, grief, etc.).
I think there are more similarities than differences between AA and The Alcoholism and Addiction Cure. Where people in AA get hung up on is the word "cure" vs. "in remission" and whether alcoholism is a "disease" vs. a "maladaptive behavior''. Self-esteem wise, I think it would be healthier to say, "I did something unwise/foolish (as in drank abusively or dependently)" as compared to saying, "I am an illness (alcoholic, drunk, etc.)"
People don't walk around saying, "My name is ... and I am cancer, or diabetes, or heart disease or asthma." We don't (or shouldn't) equate our very being with something we have (i.e., illness or possession) or something we have done (i.e., used alcohol/drugs).
If someone has high blood pressure, diabetes, and high cholesterol then loses his or her excess weight and no longer has high blood pressure, diabetes and high cholesterol, one says, "I once had these conditions" or "my excess weight and excessive food intake once jeopardized my health." As in the past, not in the present.
I would rather say, "I once used alcohol in a dependent manner," as compared to saying, "I am (my very essence, my very being) is a stigma of a disease." SusanLauren
In AA, one says, My name is .... and I am an alcoholic. It is understood that once one becomes alcoholic, one is always alcoholic. Remission is the best one can hope for even if one deals with the underlying causes and conditions. AA seems to say we can never fully or completely or permanently deal with our underlying causes and conditions.
The book approaches it from the standpoint of My name is .... and I am a beautiful, unique, precious human being. I once used alcohol/drugs in an abusive/dependent manner but since I have dealt with the underlying reasons for my addictive behavior, I no longer use alcohol/drugs. I am cured from my addiction.
The book does not accept the "disease concept". It views alcohol dependence as more of a maladaptive behavior brought on by underlying causes (alcohol dependence as a symptom of something else like trauma, abandonment, grief, etc.).
I think there are more similarities than differences between AA and The Alcoholism and Addiction Cure. Where people in AA get hung up on is the word "cure" vs. "in remission" and whether alcoholism is a "disease" vs. a "maladaptive behavior''. Self-esteem wise, I think it would be healthier to say, "I did something unwise/foolish (as in drank abusively or dependently)" as compared to saying, "I am an illness (alcoholic, drunk, etc.)"
People don't walk around saying, "My name is ... and I am cancer, or diabetes, or heart disease or asthma." We don't (or shouldn't) equate our very being with something we have (i.e., illness or possession) or something we have done (i.e., used alcohol/drugs).
If someone has high blood pressure, diabetes, and high cholesterol then loses his or her excess weight and no longer has high blood pressure, diabetes and high cholesterol, one says, "I once had these conditions" or "my excess weight and excessive food intake once jeopardized my health." As in the past, not in the present.
I would rather say, "I once used alcohol in a dependent manner," as compared to saying, "I am (my very essence, my very being) is a stigma of a disease." SusanLauren
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Not read the book but I accept the premise of dealing with the issues that lead you to medicate yourself with an addictive substance - that was an important part of my recovery...but I've had some alcoholism to deal with too.
I have no problem using the present tense - I am an alcoholic/addict - because I know I'm off to the races if I drink or use again - that is not somewhere in the past for me.
D
I have no problem using the present tense - I am an alcoholic/addict - because I know I'm off to the races if I drink or use again - that is not somewhere in the past for me.
D
Looking For Myself...Sober
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Where the heart is
Posts: 10,209
Originally Posted by yeahgr8
I notice we were talking about the label alcoholic and how we are all beautiful people inside...well the world has been judging us on our actions and clearly we aren't beautiful people inside...we can change to be and thats absolutely there for anyone but i find romanticising about what a great guy i was is delusional and lets have it like it really is...just my opinion:-)
My gram always told me that I am not a bad person, I just made bad choices and did bad things as a result of using.
Maybe thats more enabling. But I know I am far from that evil monster when I am not using. The total opposite, like most people, Its all about the addiction once I get going. Like Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde.
I wasnt really gearing this topic to have anything to do with 12 steps and AA/NA vs anything.
It was just a before bed time random thought when I was trying to fall asleep the other night. I was day dreaming how it would be awesome if I could erase my memory of the using experience so then I wouldnt crave or romaticize somehting I had never experienced before.
Just the word cure jumped out at me from that commercial. I am all for trying new things. I wish there was a cure.
Thanks everyone for your input. I really got alot of insight from this.
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: my room in ct.
Posts: 58,110
lets give credit where credit is do...
most other recovery programs are based on the 12 steps in one form or another,
and yes, they all derived from,
ahem, A.A.
now about that, A.A. was not the first to help another alcoholic or any type of addict...
there was recovery long before A.A.
a belief in something,
rigorous and real honesty,
and freely helping another human being...
now, back to our program!
good wishes trish!
most other recovery programs are based on the 12 steps in one form or another,
and yes, they all derived from,
ahem, A.A.
now about that, A.A. was not the first to help another alcoholic or any type of addict...
there was recovery long before A.A.
a belief in something,
rigorous and real honesty,
and freely helping another human being...
now, back to our program!
good wishes trish!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
Hi Everyone! Good discussion. Sometimes, however, I feel I'm drowning in words, like "cure", "remission", "underlying causes", "spiritual awakening". In desperation I like to focus on "What is to be done?" and "How to do it?". As to the first, it seems quite obvious, at least to me: "Stop drinking and drugging." Next question is "For how long?" This is the abstinence issue. I know only one thing. That abstinence is almost certainly the solution for me. The only solution. I can't speak for other persons. The final question is "How to do it?" Again, I can only speak for myself, not for others. Trying to do it on my own with 1-1 counseling didn't work at all. Forty years went by with continual and rather dramatic relapses. I joined AA and found that coming out of my solitary closet and levelling with the group was vastly superior and did wonders for my recovery. Should that group be AA? I can't say that everyone has to do that to remain sober. All I can say is that despite some issues which remained and still do remain at least to me, debatable (see my home page) AA, given a relatively broad and perhaps ecumenical interpretation, drawing from the wisdom of several cultures, has been immensely valuable to my recovery, helping me to resume the process of maturity which had been stalled by abusive drinking.
Is alcoholism a "disease" or something caused by "character defects"? I'm really not sure what this question means. To me it seems at best an oversimplification. The term "disease" has a medical connotation. I believe that alcoholism has medical components in its etiology (like genetic history, possibly metabolic abnormalities, arguably atypical aspects of neuron receptors, neurotransmitter uptake mechanism abnormalities), but it also has many other aspects, some of them cultural, including behaviors and traditions within the family, peer pressures, environment. And finally the moral element, the element of choice, influenced by what might be termed "personality characteristics", such as perfectionism, compulsive obsessive behavior, egocentricity, sociopathic behavior. The list is long. Make up your own. Where do these personality characteristics come from? Some may be inherited, some acquired or strengthend over time. Some may be products of choice.
What do we do about that? I cannot myself accept the view that they can all be "removed" by resort to a "higher power'" and a "spiritual awakening". But from my own experience I believe that, once the drinking has stopped, some of the useful tools provided by AA are immensely helpful. Hints derided by some as mere "slogans". But nonetheless very valid- like "one day at a time", known by Buddhists for centuries to be efficacious. "Don't sweat the small stuff. " (also highly respected in Eastern philosophy) and of course the Serenity Prayer ("Don't try to change stuff that you cannot change"- in other words, don't keep butting your head against a stone wall to no avail.) These weren't newly developed by AA. If anything, they were discovered, exhumed, as it were, from wisdom acquired over the centuries. But you don't have to be an esoteric Eastern philosopher or guru to practice these things. All you need do is go to an AA meeting with which you are congenial and where you are comfortable. And doing that, you don't really need to debate the "causes" or whether it's a "disease" or not. All you need do is listen up, form some friendships and try to work the program. And throw away the bottles and flush the pills down the John. And, when you get a sound track record in recovery, buy a dog. To paraphrase Will Rogers, "I never met a dog I didn't like!" or maybe Harry Truman, "If you need a friend in D.C., buy a dog."
W.
Is alcoholism a "disease" or something caused by "character defects"? I'm really not sure what this question means. To me it seems at best an oversimplification. The term "disease" has a medical connotation. I believe that alcoholism has medical components in its etiology (like genetic history, possibly metabolic abnormalities, arguably atypical aspects of neuron receptors, neurotransmitter uptake mechanism abnormalities), but it also has many other aspects, some of them cultural, including behaviors and traditions within the family, peer pressures, environment. And finally the moral element, the element of choice, influenced by what might be termed "personality characteristics", such as perfectionism, compulsive obsessive behavior, egocentricity, sociopathic behavior. The list is long. Make up your own. Where do these personality characteristics come from? Some may be inherited, some acquired or strengthend over time. Some may be products of choice.
What do we do about that? I cannot myself accept the view that they can all be "removed" by resort to a "higher power'" and a "spiritual awakening". But from my own experience I believe that, once the drinking has stopped, some of the useful tools provided by AA are immensely helpful. Hints derided by some as mere "slogans". But nonetheless very valid- like "one day at a time", known by Buddhists for centuries to be efficacious. "Don't sweat the small stuff. " (also highly respected in Eastern philosophy) and of course the Serenity Prayer ("Don't try to change stuff that you cannot change"- in other words, don't keep butting your head against a stone wall to no avail.) These weren't newly developed by AA. If anything, they were discovered, exhumed, as it were, from wisdom acquired over the centuries. But you don't have to be an esoteric Eastern philosopher or guru to practice these things. All you need do is go to an AA meeting with which you are congenial and where you are comfortable. And doing that, you don't really need to debate the "causes" or whether it's a "disease" or not. All you need do is listen up, form some friendships and try to work the program. And throw away the bottles and flush the pills down the John. And, when you get a sound track record in recovery, buy a dog. To paraphrase Will Rogers, "I never met a dog I didn't like!" or maybe Harry Truman, "If you need a friend in D.C., buy a dog."
W.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by susanlauren
Trish,
Thank you for raising this topic. I've been doing a lot of thinking about it, and it probably wouldn't be politically correct to go to an AA meeting and raise it for discussion. This time around, I have two years four months sober in AA, and I am beginning to question the need for lifetime commitment to AA. In the past I've had 7 years sober in AA and 6 years sober without AA. I absolutely know sobriety is possible without AA. The reason I went back to drinking was grief -- following the death of my mom. Needless to say, I did not handle my grief very well (in a healthy manner). The price of admission to AA is "My name is ... and I am an alcoholic." It's not that I don't believe I am alcoholic. It is more that I don't believe the nature of the condition. I AM are two very powerful words. My essence as a person is not the disease of alcoholism. Can we grow beyond a destructive behavior or tendency? Or are we forever doomed to our past? Am I ever tied to a group for addiction? I would like to think that we can grow beyond a destructive behavior or tendency. I would like to think I am capable of becoming a different/better/changed person. It is not that I am ungrateful to AA, because I am. It is that I wonder if I have replaced one addiction (to alcohol) with another addiction (to AA)? I don't know if this is making sense, and I am finding the comments very helpful. SusanLauren
Thank you for raising this topic. I've been doing a lot of thinking about it, and it probably wouldn't be politically correct to go to an AA meeting and raise it for discussion. This time around, I have two years four months sober in AA, and I am beginning to question the need for lifetime commitment to AA. In the past I've had 7 years sober in AA and 6 years sober without AA. I absolutely know sobriety is possible without AA. The reason I went back to drinking was grief -- following the death of my mom. Needless to say, I did not handle my grief very well (in a healthy manner). The price of admission to AA is "My name is ... and I am an alcoholic." It's not that I don't believe I am alcoholic. It is more that I don't believe the nature of the condition. I AM are two very powerful words. My essence as a person is not the disease of alcoholism. Can we grow beyond a destructive behavior or tendency? Or are we forever doomed to our past? Am I ever tied to a group for addiction? I would like to think that we can grow beyond a destructive behavior or tendency. I would like to think I am capable of becoming a different/better/changed person. It is not that I am ungrateful to AA, because I am. It is that I wonder if I have replaced one addiction (to alcohol) with another addiction (to AA)? I don't know if this is making sense, and I am finding the comments very helpful. SusanLauren
I keep returning to the notion that AA is a design for living program, not a no drinking program, and the only result mentioned in the steps is a spiritual awakening. I interpret this to mean the awakening of that part of myself that has been asleep....in a trance, so to speak, and mainly as a result of sociocultural conditionings. Even our language programs us, as in "would you like a drink?" most often referring to an alcoholic beverage.
Our culture, our rituals and indoctrinations into adulthood, our blind pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of pain, and our conditioned expectations of immediate results....all of these play into the acceptance of addictions, regardless of how we name them, as a way of life. My world pretty much teaches me to seek the quick fix, the immediate gratification, the desire for ever more, more, more. If the label is "addiction," I think it is more of a social "dis-ease" than a medical one. When I regulate my insides by focusing only on outside influences, like money, property, prestige, drugs, accomplishments, relationships, food...ad nauseum, I'm rejecting the advice and guidance of every spiritual faith and method for self actualization in favor of feeling good right now. The fact for me is that happiness, inner peace, spirituality, are all interior states of being, not responses to outside stimuli.
I agree that AA is a replacement "dependency", but it is one that by virtue of the 12 step process is designed to move one out of dependency altogether and into becoming a self-regulating spiritual human being...no longer a victim of circumstance, no longer an adversary of a cruel world.
I don't think AA was designed as a lifetime sentence. However, I do believe that the spiritual disciplines it nourishes are absolutely designed as lifetime practices. I like meetings, but don't need them. I do need to "practice these principles in all my affairs."
AA is the only place I've experienced where the real objective seems to be to learn to love oneself, and then to share that love with others. Love ALWAYS increases when it is given away. And so does fear.
blessings
zenbear
Looking For Myself...Sober
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Where the heart is
Posts: 10,209
Again , How did this topic go back to AA?
But since we are here. I would like to add a little too.
Please keep any responses purely a discussion, No bashing or arguing PLEASE!
I read in another thread here about how some think people in the fellowship say that AA is the only way.
I think that goes back to the #1 rule of ESH. Keep it on the "I".
If your hearing someone say that, My guess is your exploring the AA/NA way. So when people share, it comes from their own personal experience. And if it be AA/NA was and is what keeps them clean and sober. Than that may very well have been the only thing that has worked for them.
When I listen to someones advice or share, I need to remember that it is more than likely coming from personal experience, What worked for them.
Unless they start saying YOU should..Then thats different.
Me of all people have faught tooth and nail against meetings. I like alot thought it was a cult, they were controling, I dont get the whole "God" thing, people arent sincere, they think thats the only way or I will be doomed.
Been there done that.
But my first real serious attempt at recovery came just this past January. And part of the program I was in required a 12 step self help meeting a night. So I went. I didnt like it at first. And sometimes still dont like the "inconvenience" it poses at times in my "too busy" life.
But I saw and felt something I have never felt before this last time. Returning not only to the same rooms I was a newcomer in, hating the fact I even had to be there, But to the same people who have repeatedly returned to those rooms for years, I was welcomed back with lots of care and concern. Smiles and hugs and glad your back.
People remembered my name and they remembered things about me.
Now for the record, I never once shared at a meeting the whole 4 mos strait I went. And it had been another 4 mos since I had even seen these people.
I felt overwhelmed with hope and acceptance that these people remembered me and didnt look down their noses at me. Like "Oh look, SHE"S back. Told you what would happen when she stopped coming."
That didnt even come close to happening.
I got my first worry call when I left the house.
The message went, "I heard you left the house. Are you ok? What happened? Get back to me so I know your alright."
I didnt even see anyone to tell them I left. This like the next day.
Some may think thats annoying or an intrusion of privacy. But to me, I was glad someone cared and noticed mand took the time to check on me.
This came from the same person who has 2 1/2 yrs clean from a ar worse using lifestyle than me and who came out of the same dead end life and neighborhood as I was coming out of.
You think that girl would have noticed me othewrwise had we been in the street? Nope. Not unless I had something she wanted. Definately wouldne have cared where I went unless I stole from her.
And I cant look at going to meetings as a "sentence". Thyats what jail is for. And thank goodness I am not there. Because I have been and am very lucky I am not there now. Most everyone I know is doing 10+ yrs as I type.
Like already said, Who is going to help the ones like me, the newcomer, if there isnt others there to guide us. I look at it as them giving freely their time to help someone like me. To help guide me to a way that has obviously worked for them.
And I hear alot in meetings that going to meetings is their medicine. The medicine that keeps them clean.
And yes, just like people with diabetes and cancer need regular maintenance for their illness, so does those people for theirs.
And again, This is all my very own opinion and experience.
Not everyway works for everyone.
My father was mandated to treatment and AA. He went for 1 year to AA. But he remembers what he learned there. He chooses not to make meetings a "life sentence"\. He has 25 yrs sober with not 1 relapse. He also quit smokign and got his license back and built his house by himself from the ground up and has his own mason contracting company.
So there you go. Yet another stigma broken. Not just that he didnt need to keep going to succeed. He also was mandated and it helped. I know alot people think mandated people arent there for the right reasons. Only because they have to be. Well you never know what may stick and when it may click.
Sorry if this was like some sort of rant.
I really dont like when theres my program is better than yours type of things going on.
Like with anything in life. Do your research, Get the experience before you make your judgement.
Thanks again for all who have contributed to this discussion.
I learn so much from everyone, no matter what path to recovery they choose.
But since we are here. I would like to add a little too.
Please keep any responses purely a discussion, No bashing or arguing PLEASE!
I read in another thread here about how some think people in the fellowship say that AA is the only way.
I think that goes back to the #1 rule of ESH. Keep it on the "I".
If your hearing someone say that, My guess is your exploring the AA/NA way. So when people share, it comes from their own personal experience. And if it be AA/NA was and is what keeps them clean and sober. Than that may very well have been the only thing that has worked for them.
When I listen to someones advice or share, I need to remember that it is more than likely coming from personal experience, What worked for them.
Unless they start saying YOU should..Then thats different.
Me of all people have faught tooth and nail against meetings. I like alot thought it was a cult, they were controling, I dont get the whole "God" thing, people arent sincere, they think thats the only way or I will be doomed.
Been there done that.
But my first real serious attempt at recovery came just this past January. And part of the program I was in required a 12 step self help meeting a night. So I went. I didnt like it at first. And sometimes still dont like the "inconvenience" it poses at times in my "too busy" life.
But I saw and felt something I have never felt before this last time. Returning not only to the same rooms I was a newcomer in, hating the fact I even had to be there, But to the same people who have repeatedly returned to those rooms for years, I was welcomed back with lots of care and concern. Smiles and hugs and glad your back.
People remembered my name and they remembered things about me.
Now for the record, I never once shared at a meeting the whole 4 mos strait I went. And it had been another 4 mos since I had even seen these people.
I felt overwhelmed with hope and acceptance that these people remembered me and didnt look down their noses at me. Like "Oh look, SHE"S back. Told you what would happen when she stopped coming."
That didnt even come close to happening.
I got my first worry call when I left the house.
The message went, "I heard you left the house. Are you ok? What happened? Get back to me so I know your alright."
I didnt even see anyone to tell them I left. This like the next day.
Some may think thats annoying or an intrusion of privacy. But to me, I was glad someone cared and noticed mand took the time to check on me.
This came from the same person who has 2 1/2 yrs clean from a ar worse using lifestyle than me and who came out of the same dead end life and neighborhood as I was coming out of.
You think that girl would have noticed me othewrwise had we been in the street? Nope. Not unless I had something she wanted. Definately wouldne have cared where I went unless I stole from her.
And I cant look at going to meetings as a "sentence". Thyats what jail is for. And thank goodness I am not there. Because I have been and am very lucky I am not there now. Most everyone I know is doing 10+ yrs as I type.
Like already said, Who is going to help the ones like me, the newcomer, if there isnt others there to guide us. I look at it as them giving freely their time to help someone like me. To help guide me to a way that has obviously worked for them.
And I hear alot in meetings that going to meetings is their medicine. The medicine that keeps them clean.
And yes, just like people with diabetes and cancer need regular maintenance for their illness, so does those people for theirs.
And again, This is all my very own opinion and experience.
Not everyway works for everyone.
My father was mandated to treatment and AA. He went for 1 year to AA. But he remembers what he learned there. He chooses not to make meetings a "life sentence"\. He has 25 yrs sober with not 1 relapse. He also quit smokign and got his license back and built his house by himself from the ground up and has his own mason contracting company.
So there you go. Yet another stigma broken. Not just that he didnt need to keep going to succeed. He also was mandated and it helped. I know alot people think mandated people arent there for the right reasons. Only because they have to be. Well you never know what may stick and when it may click.
Sorry if this was like some sort of rant.
I really dont like when theres my program is better than yours type of things going on.
Like with anything in life. Do your research, Get the experience before you make your judgement.
Thanks again for all who have contributed to this discussion.
I learn so much from everyone, no matter what path to recovery they choose.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
[SIZE="3"] I like what you're saying, Aysha! There's a lot of caring in AA. I can't speak for non AA groups since I've never been to one. And I agree that the best thing to hear is "This is what seemed to work for me". I've underlined the most important words. "Seemed" - we can never be sure can we? It just seems to have worked up to now (nearly 22 years for me). And "me". This means that I can only speak for myself and won't insist that this will work for anyone else. It's up to other folks to figure out the way they should go.
As to all the debate over the word "cure" and the so called "disease" concept, this seems to me to come down to the often asked question, "Can I learn to drink in moderation or must I abstain forever?" I can't answer that for anyone other than myself and for me the answer is that I can never drink in moderation.
As for the other aspects of the "disease" concept, if that means that alcoholism has no medical causes (such as genetic history, metabolic anomalies, etc.) and is purely a result of certain behavior and character defects, I disagree. Medical research seems to say that there are medical aspects. But this does not mean that there are not other causative components. But I really don't care about this. All I care about is so far the program has worked, for me.
As to all the debate over the word "cure" and the so called "disease" concept, this seems to me to come down to the often asked question, "Can I learn to drink in moderation or must I abstain forever?" I can't answer that for anyone other than myself and for me the answer is that I can never drink in moderation.
As for the other aspects of the "disease" concept, if that means that alcoholism has no medical causes (such as genetic history, metabolic anomalies, etc.) and is purely a result of certain behavior and character defects, I disagree. Medical research seems to say that there are medical aspects. But this does not mean that there are not other causative components. But I really don't care about this. All I care about is so far the program has worked, for me.
Last edited by wpainterw; 09-02-2010 at 08:27 AM. Reason: correct underlining and typos
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 438
Excellent thread. I once heard an AA speaker state that our own Big Book uses the term 'recovered' numerous times when describing the alcoholic who has followed the program, had the resulting spiritual whatever, and from whom the obsession has been lifted. It seems like the terminology...cured, recovered, recovering, etc. is a real hot-button issue for a lot of AA folks but I try not to get too hung up on those semantics. I'm sober today, planning on being sober tomorrow and for the foreseeable future.
That book sounds interesting...I'll definitely check it out.
That book sounds interesting...I'll definitely check it out.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by stephnc
Excellent thread. I once heard an AA speaker state that our own Big Book uses the term 'recovered' numerous times when describing the alcoholic who has followed the program, had the resulting spiritual whatever, and from whom the obsession has been lifted. It seems like the terminology...cured, recovered, recovering, etc. is a real hot-button issue for a lot of AA folks but I try not to get too hung up on those semantics. I'm sober today, planning on being sober tomorrow and for the foreseeable future.
That book sounds interesting...I'll definitely check it out.
That book sounds interesting...I'll definitely check it out.
As for "recovering" vs recovered....and this is my own cynical opinion....recovering implies never ending. Treatment programs often define relapse as part of recovery, and needless to say, profit by treating clients over and over again, often with little or no different approach. I think that one reason AA's "success rate' was so much higher back in the day, is that they weren't competing with treatment programs...doing more significant 12 step work....and focusing much more on the Steps rather than all the peripheral claptrap one encounters these days in treatment programs.
Of course,the biggest difference is that AA is freely given. I continue to attend AA for two reasons: I enjoy the fellowship, and I find great joy in reaching out to suffering newcomers. I do NOT do the steps over and over and over and over again. I DO practice the principles upon which they're based to the best of my ability...every day in every way I can....in all my affairs.
blessings
zenbear
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