Just done!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by CarolD 
What did you say to the lady ....either during or after the meeting?
Did any of the 20 people there share with her?
Or perhaps stay to talk after?
Was this a traditional AA meeting or one of the underground ones?
As I understand ...from our members who use underground AA
they do something similar ...I think it's call Considerations.
Personally....I thought Considerations sounded more
harmful than productive.....
like grilling someone.
But I have no first hand experience with underground AA groups.
I've never been in an AA meeting as you described.
I'm not discounting your bad experience Dallas
just curious.
Did any of the 20 people there share with her?
Or perhaps stay to talk after?
Was this a traditional AA meeting or one of the underground ones?
As I understand ...from our members who use underground AA
they do something similar ...I think it's call Considerations.
Personally....I thought Considerations sounded more
harmful than productive.....
like grilling someone.But I have no first hand experience with underground AA groups.
I've never been in an AA meeting as you described.
I'm not discounting your bad experience Dallas
just curious.
blessings
zenbear
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by firestorm090
Are you AA members with a ton of years better than me?
But it's that similarity, that exact sameness, that makes us uniquely useful to each other. We have the same problem, alcoholism. And we can use the same solution (spiritual awakening).
What you may not see (although you may have heard it before) Dallas, is that I need you. It's not so much that I have this great gift I want to give you, but more that I need to share my experience with someone who is willing to speak that language.
There are people in the rooms who have the same exact barroom behavior as they have always had, without the bar. AA is a sober Elk's club to them. And then there are people that live this program, as evidenced by their actions, not by their words. It is imperative to know the difference if you have any hope of recovering in AA. Mainstream, middle of the road, half measure AA is going to fail guys like you and me.
I read your post, Dallas, and I'm saddened and hurt by it. Not offended personally, but saddened that you won't let someone help you. There really are people you can join on a spiritual path, if you seek them out.
Best of luck to you, my friend.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
D,
I know how you feel. Thankfully, I haven't seen that kind of behavior much in the rooms, but I've sure seen it online.
It IS hard because we are new--it's tough to stand up to bullies, and if you take 'em on in a meeting there's always the risk that the ensuing drama will be as harmful to everyone else at the meeting as the BS that upsets us (and the "target").
One thing that was suggested to me at another forum is to speak up and say something along the lines that AA meetings are a place to share experience, strength, and hope, and that someone else's spiritual condition is a matter for that person, his/her sponsor, and his/her Higher Power, and it is not for other members to judge. You say it in a non-accusatory way, directing it at no one in particular, and move on to share something on topic. You may have others thank you later for saying what they wanted to say.
The other thing you can do, of course, is to speak to the "target" after the meeting, and share your own support one on one.
I understand your anger. Try not to hold on to it so it turns into a resentment. We can't control other people, just ourselves.
I know how you feel. Thankfully, I haven't seen that kind of behavior much in the rooms, but I've sure seen it online.
It IS hard because we are new--it's tough to stand up to bullies, and if you take 'em on in a meeting there's always the risk that the ensuing drama will be as harmful to everyone else at the meeting as the BS that upsets us (and the "target").
One thing that was suggested to me at another forum is to speak up and say something along the lines that AA meetings are a place to share experience, strength, and hope, and that someone else's spiritual condition is a matter for that person, his/her sponsor, and his/her Higher Power, and it is not for other members to judge. You say it in a non-accusatory way, directing it at no one in particular, and move on to share something on topic. You may have others thank you later for saying what they wanted to say.
The other thing you can do, of course, is to speak to the "target" after the meeting, and share your own support one on one.
I understand your anger. Try not to hold on to it so it turns into a resentment. We can't control other people, just ourselves.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by LexieCat
D,
I know how you feel. Thankfully, I haven't seen that kind of behavior much in the rooms, but I've sure seen it online.
It IS hard because we are new--it's tough to stand up to bullies, and if you take 'em on in a meeting there's always the risk that the ensuing drama will be as harmful to everyone else at the meeting as the BS that upsets us (and the "target").
One thing that was suggested to me at another forum is to speak up and say something along the lines that AA meetings are a place to share experience, strength, and hope, and that someone else's spiritual condition is a matter for that person, his/her sponsor, and his/her Higher Power, and it is not for other members to judge. You say it in a non-accusatory way, directing it at no one in particular, and move on to share something on topic. You may have others thank you later for saying what they wanted to say.
The other thing you can do, of course, is to speak to the "target" after the meeting, and share your own support one on one.
I understand your anger. Try not to hold on to it so it turns into a resentment. We can't control other people, just ourselves.
I know how you feel. Thankfully, I haven't seen that kind of behavior much in the rooms, but I've sure seen it online.
It IS hard because we are new--it's tough to stand up to bullies, and if you take 'em on in a meeting there's always the risk that the ensuing drama will be as harmful to everyone else at the meeting as the BS that upsets us (and the "target").
One thing that was suggested to me at another forum is to speak up and say something along the lines that AA meetings are a place to share experience, strength, and hope, and that someone else's spiritual condition is a matter for that person, his/her sponsor, and his/her Higher Power, and it is not for other members to judge. You say it in a non-accusatory way, directing it at no one in particular, and move on to share something on topic. You may have others thank you later for saying what they wanted to say.
The other thing you can do, of course, is to speak to the "target" after the meeting, and share your own support one on one.
I understand your anger. Try not to hold on to it so it turns into a resentment. We can't control other people, just ourselves.
I have never experienced an angry, loving thought....although my ego will ever try to seduce me into believing that love can actually be angry. Maybe romance, but never love.
blessings
zenbear
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 438
Originally Posted by firestorm090
Just thinking outloud here, but maybe recovery goes something like this. You tell me 2+2=4, then I come back wondering why does 2+2=4, so I keep asking, "well, why is it that 2+2=4?" You say, well D, that's the answer you seek, and I say "How do I know that's the answer?" I can ask a few differnt ways, such as "How do you know 2+2=4" or something corny like "who said 2+2=4?" The questions I ask don't change the outcome, for the equation remains the same. If recovery from chronic alcoholism can be achieved from working the twelve steps, does my inquiry change the outcome? No. The results are the same, whether I question them or not, as I understand it, if a person works the twelve steps as others have done, the results should be the same.
Am I wrong here?
Am I wrong here?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,361
hey firstorm...
now i'm just a noob and a continues relapser all in one..
but it sounds to me that your problem is more with the instution AA, then the recovery thought behind this institution. I have the same with the church, and i've felt this 'vibe' with NA oldtimers myself too.
but hey,
Maybe we'll be the same in ten years when we gained all this sobriety time. It must be painfull for them to see people mess up their lifes exactly the same way they did themselves, and there is no way in stopping that person, even while you hold the key.
I would get frustrated..
now i'm just a noob and a continues relapser all in one..
but it sounds to me that your problem is more with the instution AA, then the recovery thought behind this institution. I have the same with the church, and i've felt this 'vibe' with NA oldtimers myself too.
but hey,
Maybe we'll be the same in ten years when we gained all this sobriety time. It must be painfull for them to see people mess up their lifes exactly the same way they did themselves, and there is no way in stopping that person, even while you hold the key.
I would get frustrated..
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: dayton, oh
Posts: 487
Check out Smart. These meetings are filled with people with positive attitudes. I found AA to have a lot of negative people and I did not need to leave my loving family every night to go to a meeting where, more often than not, I was told I was doing something wrong. I did it for five months and the only thing AA did for me, was help me to relapse into the worst, year long drinking episode that almost killed me. I am ten months sober, happy, healthy, and like I've said before it works with treatment, therapy, medication and hard work. And, Yes we care. Ever since I found SR I check to see who is on that day and am sad to see who has dissappeared.
SH
SH
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Between Serenity and Despair
Posts: 522
I completely sympathize with the way your experience left you feeling, Firestorm.
I tend to let people make me angry or let them ruin things for me. Someone else in this thread said that anger is a luxury we cannot afford. I am trying to make changes in my life. I want to let go of my anger and live a more peaceful existence.
Somebody else in this thread said you can't control what other people do. You can only control what you do. This is another of the lessons I have to remind myself of on a regular basis. I whisper it to myself many times each day.
If you really want to take action against the jerks and bullies in this AA meeting, return to that meeting. Next time they treat someone as they treated that woman last night, approach that person after the meeting. Encourage that person the way you think they ought to be encouraged. And encourage them to keep coming back. You'd be doing a service. Early in sobriety, your perception is distorted. It's difficult to know when you're not just being crazy and misunderstanding what people do and say.
Also, if there are enough who feel as you do, you may end up turning the tide of that meeting. Bullies and jerks seek out audiences where nobody will challenge them. They settle in, and a clique starts to form around them. Some people like the power of being in the bully's inner circle. Others are afraid not to be in the bully's inner circle. I'm not only talking about AA here. I'm talking about nearly every long-standing club, group, or fellowship I've witnessed.
New people are made uncomfortable by the bully and his inner circle. Many of them brave a few meetings only to decide they can't stomach the club or fellowship. Those folks don't return, and they probably have a negative impression of the organization after that. The new person who stays either believes he is alone or incorrect in his discomfort. He either stays on the periphery of the group and prays he won't become the center of attention OR he jumps hoops to join the inner circle for protection. Nobody says or does anything, and the bully's status quo continues. Sometimes, by this point, you may even have a group of bullies running the show.
I'm not saying you should go back into that meeting blazing like the guns of Navarone. However, I sort of wonder if your Higher Power is speaking to you through this meeting. I wonder if this isn't your chance to do something good.
Of course, what I say is worth what you're paying for it. If it doesn't resonate with you, that's cool. I've had a horrible migraine for the past 12 hours, and maybe I'm talking nonsense anyway.
Sorry for the long ramble.
I tend to let people make me angry or let them ruin things for me. Someone else in this thread said that anger is a luxury we cannot afford. I am trying to make changes in my life. I want to let go of my anger and live a more peaceful existence.
Somebody else in this thread said you can't control what other people do. You can only control what you do. This is another of the lessons I have to remind myself of on a regular basis. I whisper it to myself many times each day.
If you really want to take action against the jerks and bullies in this AA meeting, return to that meeting. Next time they treat someone as they treated that woman last night, approach that person after the meeting. Encourage that person the way you think they ought to be encouraged. And encourage them to keep coming back. You'd be doing a service. Early in sobriety, your perception is distorted. It's difficult to know when you're not just being crazy and misunderstanding what people do and say.
Also, if there are enough who feel as you do, you may end up turning the tide of that meeting. Bullies and jerks seek out audiences where nobody will challenge them. They settle in, and a clique starts to form around them. Some people like the power of being in the bully's inner circle. Others are afraid not to be in the bully's inner circle. I'm not only talking about AA here. I'm talking about nearly every long-standing club, group, or fellowship I've witnessed.
New people are made uncomfortable by the bully and his inner circle. Many of them brave a few meetings only to decide they can't stomach the club or fellowship. Those folks don't return, and they probably have a negative impression of the organization after that. The new person who stays either believes he is alone or incorrect in his discomfort. He either stays on the periphery of the group and prays he won't become the center of attention OR he jumps hoops to join the inner circle for protection. Nobody says or does anything, and the bully's status quo continues. Sometimes, by this point, you may even have a group of bullies running the show.
I'm not saying you should go back into that meeting blazing like the guns of Navarone. However, I sort of wonder if your Higher Power is speaking to you through this meeting. I wonder if this isn't your chance to do something good.
Of course, what I say is worth what you're paying for it. If it doesn't resonate with you, that's cool. I've had a horrible migraine for the past 12 hours, and maybe I'm talking nonsense anyway.
Sorry for the long ramble.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 273
If AA is not for you, try something else. I stopped going, but I have a lot of respect for the people in those rooms. Those people choose to be there to help the new guy coming in the door. I think judging them for 'having no life' is no better than whatever judgment you think they've put on you.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by firestorm090
I'm a hopeless drunk as I've stated here countless times before, and left on my own, I'll drink myself into an early grave. I'm only here because I'm desperately seeking a way to avoid what is presently the inevitable for my life as I presently live it.
I hated the fatcats and the oldtimers who soapboxed their sobriety selling it like snake-oil for all that ails the alcoholic. They had a willing audience and from that they enjoyed a sense of power as they hawked their fool-proof solutions to the lost and confused, the weak and dying. It's a spectacle of horrible proportions and it just keeps going on like nobodys business in some meeting somewhere. Inevitable.
It's not my years of marked time which create a difference in the qualities of my sober life: Its the differences I am experiencing as being the same alcoholic I ever was and in spite of all of what that means to be a chronic hopeless alcoholic I am living a completely different life than when I drank to be drunk. My alcoholism has not changed. My alcoholism is simply arrested. I have changed into a person who lives a sober spiritual life. Those differences create the qualities which sustain and nourish my good life today. I am different as a living man, not as an alcoholic. Sobriety has not cured or changed my alcoholism in anyway. I am as a person forever changed and my daily life celebrates those changes. Thanks be to God.
I have no magic words for you, Dallas. I remember having tough choices about drinking, living, and dying. My final acceptance of alcoholism as an illness and a spiritual malady was the tipping point for me. Working with others in fellowships of recovery, working a path of recovery, working a program of recovery, working a faith in a Higher Power: these are the works that kept me progressively changing from the very early days of tough times and always without fail continue to give me my freedoms from alcoholism in these easy times I enjoy today.
The most electrifying experiences of my sober beginings which rocketed me into a new life was the simple responsibilites of being rigorously honest with myself, others, and God as we all contributed to the goodness of our fellow man and woman as we together trudged the path of a lasting happiness and daily reprieve. Live and let live.
The fatcats and the jerks are still around anyways after all, and yet my hatred of their sorry existence is gone for good and all. In my changing I have come to understand the hoplessness of their tough choices now that I'm on the otherside of alcoholism. I have empathy for their sufferings as I am a fellow hopeless drunk who himself once was lost but now am found.
Regards,
Rob
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA desert
Posts: 1,599
It's hard to thank each person who responded here personally, but if I could, I'd give all of you one huge hug. I love that line in the movie Tommy where Tommy says "brothers don't shake hands, brothers gotta hug", and you're all my brothers and sisters in recovery here.
Thank you for being here.
I'm still working on something a friend here suggested to me a couple days ago and that's the art of "restraint of pen and tongue". I tend to speak my mind openly, and that's one of the things that really bothers me about last night. I didn't speak to her. I became so angry that I just scooted out the door as soon as the meeting was over. Controlling my anger is something I'm working on too and as one poster pointed out, I need to be less judgemental myself.
Human flaws, well, I have a ton of those, but I'm sloooowly getting better. I have a good life, and maybe the struggle to overcome my alcoholism is one that keeps me somewhat humble. I try to be a nice guy, but you know, sometimes I'm just like the jerks I saw last night and maybe I need to look at that much more in myself. And another poster here commented on anger becoming a drug in itself, that's something I never really considered and need to think about indepth. My ladyfriend says I'm always "flying off the handle", and she's right, and I keep trying to justify it, but it's just not healthy. Low tolerance for frustration is the way my counselor put it, and she's right too, sometimes I act like a spoiled rotten little kid, which isn't funny in a grown man's body, let me tell ya. I don't get physical with my anger, but I'm going to start taking my anger out at the gym, where it's safe, lol. I'm also going to start jogging alot more, becuase it always calms me down. Oh, and that restraint thingy, well, I gotta work on that to. Man, just thinking of all this work is wearing me out, lol.
Like others have suggested here, I'm going to keep going to meetings, keep coming here and keep praying to God to help me with this alcohol problem. To stop now would mean certain alcoholic death.
I love this group at SR, each of you hold a dear place in my heart. Thank you for letting me be a part of your group.
Thank you for being here.
I'm still working on something a friend here suggested to me a couple days ago and that's the art of "restraint of pen and tongue". I tend to speak my mind openly, and that's one of the things that really bothers me about last night. I didn't speak to her. I became so angry that I just scooted out the door as soon as the meeting was over. Controlling my anger is something I'm working on too and as one poster pointed out, I need to be less judgemental myself.
Human flaws, well, I have a ton of those, but I'm sloooowly getting better. I have a good life, and maybe the struggle to overcome my alcoholism is one that keeps me somewhat humble. I try to be a nice guy, but you know, sometimes I'm just like the jerks I saw last night and maybe I need to look at that much more in myself. And another poster here commented on anger becoming a drug in itself, that's something I never really considered and need to think about indepth. My ladyfriend says I'm always "flying off the handle", and she's right, and I keep trying to justify it, but it's just not healthy. Low tolerance for frustration is the way my counselor put it, and she's right too, sometimes I act like a spoiled rotten little kid, which isn't funny in a grown man's body, let me tell ya. I don't get physical with my anger, but I'm going to start taking my anger out at the gym, where it's safe, lol. I'm also going to start jogging alot more, becuase it always calms me down. Oh, and that restraint thingy, well, I gotta work on that to. Man, just thinking of all this work is wearing me out, lol.
Like others have suggested here, I'm going to keep going to meetings, keep coming here and keep praying to God to help me with this alcohol problem. To stop now would mean certain alcoholic death.
I love this group at SR, each of you hold a dear place in my heart. Thank you for letting me be a part of your group.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by firestorm090
I gotta work on that to. Man, just thinking of all this work is wearing me out,
The best I can do today is give up working on me, point myself towards God, and get out of the way.
I did that by taking the 12 Steps. I can't put it any more plainly, Dallas. The only question in AA that matters is, "What Step are you on?"
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Alexandria Township, NJ
Posts: 275
Hey Firestorm
I snoop around on "this side" from time to time. Just spying usually
But your post really impressed me.
You started out like crazy man - desperate, hopeless and wicked p*ssed off at life. And less that a day later your true colors come threw. Kind, full of life and still fighting.
The power of people (and their words) it just amazes me.
I'll bet there are a lot of people who care about your sobriety, I know I do now.
I snoop around on "this side" from time to time. Just spying usually
But your post really impressed me.
You started out like crazy man - desperate, hopeless and wicked p*ssed off at life. And less that a day later your true colors come threw. Kind, full of life and still fighting.
The power of people (and their words) it just amazes me.
I'll bet there are a lot of people who care about your sobriety, I know I do now.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
yeah FS, I've seen some of that behavior in meetings, "the preachers", I call them...
there is a guy at a lunch meeting I go to and I often imagine a pulpit rising up from the floor in front of him when he shares. He doesn't talk about his own personal experience, he doesn't make thoughtful comments about the topic, he goes into preach mode every time, telling people what to do and what not to do, etc. Needless to say, he bugs the heck out of me!
But I look at it this way: he only has 5 minutes and if I don't like what he says, someone else usually always says something I really appreciate.
Just a sidenote: all groups that I have been to have guidelines for sharing. And most groups I have been to uphold the golden rule: DO NOT COMMENT on other people's shares. If a someone came to my home group and shared about relapsing for example, and if someone else commented directly on that share, that would be grounds for bringing that up with the chair of the meeting.
You might want to discuss this with the chair of the meeting to get some clarification on this. I'm glad to hear you are not going to give up on going to meetings. You can always try going to some new one's, and you might find another group you like better.
I find that each group is quite different -
there is a guy at a lunch meeting I go to and I often imagine a pulpit rising up from the floor in front of him when he shares. He doesn't talk about his own personal experience, he doesn't make thoughtful comments about the topic, he goes into preach mode every time, telling people what to do and what not to do, etc. Needless to say, he bugs the heck out of me!
But I look at it this way: he only has 5 minutes and if I don't like what he says, someone else usually always says something I really appreciate.
Just a sidenote: all groups that I have been to have guidelines for sharing. And most groups I have been to uphold the golden rule: DO NOT COMMENT on other people's shares. If a someone came to my home group and shared about relapsing for example, and if someone else commented directly on that share, that would be grounds for bringing that up with the chair of the meeting.
You might want to discuss this with the chair of the meeting to get some clarification on this. I'm glad to hear you are not going to give up on going to meetings. You can always try going to some new one's, and you might find another group you like better.
I find that each group is quite different -
Grouch and Brainstorm
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 238
AA is a cross-section of humanity, so, like humanity, you're going to get your share of a**holes.
But I hear a more alarming issue in what you're saying-- the lack of a message of any depth and weight in the AA meeting you attended. When a meeting becomes nothing but a cheer-leading session for abstinence and there's criticism of those who are struggling, it's not an AA meeting, despite what the sign over the door says.
I run into more of those meetings than I do any other type.
To tell someone they aren't serious is to reveal that you know very little about the disease of alcoholism, in my opinion. That's just untreated alcoholism on a power trip.
And time sober, particularly when it's talked about ad nauseam, is definitely a signal that what you're about to hear might not be what you need. How often can you listen to the "I've got a few 24s strung together, and let me tell you, it wasn't easy, but daggonit, I stuck to it and didn't drink one day at a time and even if my ass fell off I picked it up and took it to a meeting..."
I urge you to try different meetings before you decide AA is not for you.
But I hear a more alarming issue in what you're saying-- the lack of a message of any depth and weight in the AA meeting you attended. When a meeting becomes nothing but a cheer-leading session for abstinence and there's criticism of those who are struggling, it's not an AA meeting, despite what the sign over the door says.
I run into more of those meetings than I do any other type.
To tell someone they aren't serious is to reveal that you know very little about the disease of alcoholism, in my opinion. That's just untreated alcoholism on a power trip.
And time sober, particularly when it's talked about ad nauseam, is definitely a signal that what you're about to hear might not be what you need. How often can you listen to the "I've got a few 24s strung together, and let me tell you, it wasn't easy, but daggonit, I stuck to it and didn't drink one day at a time and even if my ass fell off I picked it up and took it to a meeting..."
I urge you to try different meetings before you decide AA is not for you.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,511
Firestorm, I am glad that you are exploring yourself.
I had no idea how to deal with anger and I would hold it all in for the longest time and then I would explode in an irrational way. I felt so out of control and I was. In recovery, I learned to able to experience my emotions without being driven by them. I have learned healthy ways to deal with anger so I no longer have to blow up.
And, don't let yourself get overwhelmed by the amount of work that recovery requires. Recovery is a life-long process, an experience of learning and growing and you have all the time you need to do that.
I had no idea how to deal with anger and I would hold it all in for the longest time and then I would explode in an irrational way. I felt so out of control and I was. In recovery, I learned to able to experience my emotions without being driven by them. I have learned healthy ways to deal with anger so I no longer have to blow up.
And, don't let yourself get overwhelmed by the amount of work that recovery requires. Recovery is a life-long process, an experience of learning and growing and you have all the time you need to do that.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA desert
Posts: 1,599
Thanks Christie, littlefish and Robert.
Christie, that was quite a compliment and I needed it today, so I appreciate your knid words.
littlefish and Robert, you are both right and I'm definitely going to keep going to meetings, however I am going to keep looking for new ones to add to the list of ones I attend now. Thanks for letting me know I'm not totally nuts, but just a little cracked, lol. I have met some great people at the meetings too, and they're the reason I keep going. It amazes me how much heart these people have, how they always make coffee, always bring in cookies and show by their actions that they're happy to be there, always laughing at something, and their eyes are full of life. That's why I keep going. I'm normally the guy who slips in right before the meeting starts, and then hits the door the minute the meeting ends. I think I'll stick around longer now and speak with some of those whom have that light in their eyes. The eyes speak volumns.
Christie, that was quite a compliment and I needed it today, so I appreciate your knid words.
littlefish and Robert, you are both right and I'm definitely going to keep going to meetings, however I am going to keep looking for new ones to add to the list of ones I attend now. Thanks for letting me know I'm not totally nuts, but just a little cracked, lol. I have met some great people at the meetings too, and they're the reason I keep going. It amazes me how much heart these people have, how they always make coffee, always bring in cookies and show by their actions that they're happy to be there, always laughing at something, and their eyes are full of life. That's why I keep going. I'm normally the guy who slips in right before the meeting starts, and then hits the door the minute the meeting ends. I think I'll stick around longer now and speak with some of those whom have that light in their eyes. The eyes speak volumns.
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