AA without God?
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by trailrunrbyday 
Without going into it any further I do consider myself a Spiritual person and have comfort with the place that has in my life. That being said, I was worried that any help I would seek would continuously mean defending my lack of belief in *God*.
Thanks for the input!!!!
Thanks for the input!!!!
Having said that, be prepared that not all who attend meetings or within the fellowship observe the rights of others in straight up honest ways. Alcoholics are what they are and so all variations of persons attend meetings. Don't become discouraged. Like any on going gathering of peoples there are always some who just don't get what is going on and AA is not immune to that experience either. Many will understand your not wanting or having to defend your own spirituality. Some may not. Best Wishes!
RR
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Yeah, there is no requirement to defend your beliefs. You are totally okay to keep your understanding to yourself unexplained as you may so choose. A God of our own understanding. It's written right into the program.
Having said that, be prepared that not all who attend meetings or within the fellowship observe the rights of others in straight up honest ways. Alcoholics are what they are and so all variations of persons attend meetings. Don't become discouraged. Like any on going gathering of peoples there are always some who just don't get what is going on and AA is not immune to that experience either. Many will understand your not wanting or having to defend your own spirituality. Some may not. Best Wishes!
RR
Having said that, be prepared that not all who attend meetings or within the fellowship observe the rights of others in straight up honest ways. Alcoholics are what they are and so all variations of persons attend meetings. Don't become discouraged. Like any on going gathering of peoples there are always some who just don't get what is going on and AA is not immune to that experience either. Many will understand your not wanting or having to defend your own spirituality. Some may not. Best Wishes!
RR
blessings
zenbear
Karma Amputee
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Among The Living
Posts: 769
As a "Universe" guy, I came into sobriety and recovery as a total militant atheist with open contempt for organized religion and a lack of respect for people who believed in that stuff. I thought, "well I do have respect for AA but probably would have trouble with the God/HP thing.." Typical, I know.
A genuine organic change has taken place inside me since getting sober.
And I can see why AA includes this, because I believe that if done correctly, sobriety and recovery more or less on it's own promotes a spiritual awakening and there is value in this in terms of maintaining sobriety and living a spiritual, open minded life.
Alan Moore sums it up best here IMO when he says...
"Much of magic as I understand it in the Western occult tradition is the search for the Self, with a capital S. This is understood as being the Great Work, as being the gold the alchemists sought, as being the Will, the Soul, the thing we have inside us that is behind the intellect, the body, the dreams. The inner dynamo of us, if you like. Now this is the single most important thing that we can ever attain, the knowledge of our own Self. And yet there are a frightening amount of people who seem to have the urge not just to ignore the Self, but actually seem to have the urge to obliterate themselves. This is horrific, but you can almost understand the desire to simply wipe out that awareness, because it’s too much of a responsibility to actually posses such a thing as a soul, such a precious thing. What if you break it? What if you lose it? Mightn’t it be best to anesthetize it, to deaden it, to destroy it, to not have to live with the pain of struggling towards it and trying to keep it pure? I think that the way that people immerse themselves in alcohol, in drugs, in television, in any of the addictions that our culture throws up, can be seen as a deliberate attempt to destroy any connection between themselves and the responsibility of accepting and owning a higher Self and then having to maintain it." ~ Alan Moore
That being said...
I still don't believe in "God" as explained by and USED by organized religion but I have come to see as a possible a Higher Power which people and religions do call God. To be specific, I have come to believe that perhaps the actual Universe we occupy IS the mind, imagination, and highly developed, creative consciousness of "God" and that we as humans are the literal offspring of this "God" and that when we die, we are born out of this Universe and into what some call Heaven but which I might call "true reality." In this true reality, we exist of pure consciousness (which never dies) with the ability to create Universes and all that exists within one, including life. It's a natural, scientific explanation for the possibility of a "God." Anyway there is more to it that that but that's just a snapshot, such a leap is HUGE for me but the point is that if I can come to honestly and organically believe in a "God" or Higher Power of my understanding and then I feel just about anybody can, because if you knew me before...
Here is a link to a book I read which led me to consider these possibilities...
The Ultimate Seeds
A genuine organic change has taken place inside me since getting sober.
And I can see why AA includes this, because I believe that if done correctly, sobriety and recovery more or less on it's own promotes a spiritual awakening and there is value in this in terms of maintaining sobriety and living a spiritual, open minded life.
Alan Moore sums it up best here IMO when he says...
"Much of magic as I understand it in the Western occult tradition is the search for the Self, with a capital S. This is understood as being the Great Work, as being the gold the alchemists sought, as being the Will, the Soul, the thing we have inside us that is behind the intellect, the body, the dreams. The inner dynamo of us, if you like. Now this is the single most important thing that we can ever attain, the knowledge of our own Self. And yet there are a frightening amount of people who seem to have the urge not just to ignore the Self, but actually seem to have the urge to obliterate themselves. This is horrific, but you can almost understand the desire to simply wipe out that awareness, because it’s too much of a responsibility to actually posses such a thing as a soul, such a precious thing. What if you break it? What if you lose it? Mightn’t it be best to anesthetize it, to deaden it, to destroy it, to not have to live with the pain of struggling towards it and trying to keep it pure? I think that the way that people immerse themselves in alcohol, in drugs, in television, in any of the addictions that our culture throws up, can be seen as a deliberate attempt to destroy any connection between themselves and the responsibility of accepting and owning a higher Self and then having to maintain it." ~ Alan Moore
That being said...
I still don't believe in "God" as explained by and USED by organized religion but I have come to see as a possible a Higher Power which people and religions do call God. To be specific, I have come to believe that perhaps the actual Universe we occupy IS the mind, imagination, and highly developed, creative consciousness of "God" and that we as humans are the literal offspring of this "God" and that when we die, we are born out of this Universe and into what some call Heaven but which I might call "true reality." In this true reality, we exist of pure consciousness (which never dies) with the ability to create Universes and all that exists within one, including life. It's a natural, scientific explanation for the possibility of a "God." Anyway there is more to it that that but that's just a snapshot, such a leap is HUGE for me but the point is that if I can come to honestly and organically believe in a "God" or Higher Power of my understanding and then I feel just about anybody can, because if you knew me before...
Here is a link to a book I read which led me to consider these possibilities...
The Ultimate Seeds
Awakening...
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: in the present
Posts: 1,125
We're all spiritual beings. There's always something out there more powerful than we are. In fact, I personally am not more powerful over anything, except my own mind.
I am a practicing Buddhist. I believe in no god, G-d, God, ect. I do fine in AA.
I am a practicing Buddhist. I believe in no god, G-d, God, ect. I do fine in AA.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 14,082
Hi trailrunrbyday, I use a secular approach to recovery. Its a good match to my beliefs as it is not necessary for me to abandon my healthy world view in order to recover from addiction.
As it was already said in the above post: There is more than one way to live a rich and fulfilling life sober/clean.
As it was already said in the above post: There is more than one way to live a rich and fulfilling life sober/clean.
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