I hate groups
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Goldfish are you wrong? Yes and no!
People do get and stay sober on thier own, so on that you are not wrong, congrats on your 6 or 7 weeks.
I remember vividly my last drink, it was the last beer I could find in my garage, it was the evening of Sept. 18., 2006, I was going into detox the next day.
Was I a loser going into detox? Well let me put it this way, a doctor who specializes in alcoholism and drug addiction told me that I stood a good chance of dying if I tried detoxing on my own, so you tell me, did following medical advice that indicated I stood a chance of dying if I did not detox under medical supervision make me a loser?
Now you tell me who is the loser and who is a winner in this scenario?
A 52 year old man who drinks every day driving home from work and then goes immediately into his garage to continue to drink by himself into oblivion every night? This is a man with 6 children, has held a job every day for the last 35 years always progressing in his job, but is not a husband to his wife nor a father to his children. A man who without his wife running the entire house hold would not be buying a $350,000 home, owning 2 brand new vehicles. This is also a man who is about to lose all of this in less then a month.
The man who was in the exact same boat, but with the help of people in AA is now a husband to his wife and a father to his children, who still holds the same job and owns everything mentioned and except for a house payment and a truck payment is debt free and is now working together with my wife to run our house hold. This man has not had a drink in almost 2 years and could honestly care less if he ever had one again.
A few more things about that loser, he is happier then he has been in over 30 years and he helps other suffering alcoholics get and stay sober! I help people both alcoholic and not.
I do not hate any one or anything, nor do I judge any one to be a loser, but if I am a loser I am a VERY HAPPY SOBER loser and will wear the banner of loser with pride if I am what a loser is.
I did discover in sobriety that those I used to say were losers were in reality people I was jealous of because they had something I wanted. Those losers gave me what I wanted for free and today I give away for free what was freely given to me.
People do get and stay sober on thier own, so on that you are not wrong, congrats on your 6 or 7 weeks.
I remember vividly my last drink, it was the last beer I could find in my garage, it was the evening of Sept. 18., 2006, I was going into detox the next day.
Was I a loser going into detox? Well let me put it this way, a doctor who specializes in alcoholism and drug addiction told me that I stood a good chance of dying if I tried detoxing on my own, so you tell me, did following medical advice that indicated I stood a chance of dying if I did not detox under medical supervision make me a loser?
Now you tell me who is the loser and who is a winner in this scenario?
A 52 year old man who drinks every day driving home from work and then goes immediately into his garage to continue to drink by himself into oblivion every night? This is a man with 6 children, has held a job every day for the last 35 years always progressing in his job, but is not a husband to his wife nor a father to his children. A man who without his wife running the entire house hold would not be buying a $350,000 home, owning 2 brand new vehicles. This is also a man who is about to lose all of this in less then a month.
The man who was in the exact same boat, but with the help of people in AA is now a husband to his wife and a father to his children, who still holds the same job and owns everything mentioned and except for a house payment and a truck payment is debt free and is now working together with my wife to run our house hold. This man has not had a drink in almost 2 years and could honestly care less if he ever had one again.
A few more things about that loser, he is happier then he has been in over 30 years and he helps other suffering alcoholics get and stay sober! I help people both alcoholic and not.
I do not hate any one or anything, nor do I judge any one to be a loser, but if I am a loser I am a VERY HAPPY SOBER loser and will wear the banner of loser with pride if I am what a loser is.
I did discover in sobriety that those I used to say were losers were in reality people I was jealous of because they had something I wanted. Those losers gave me what I wanted for free and today I give away for free what was freely given to me.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Co Springs, CO
Posts: 116
I am going to assume you are referring to AA.
My first thought is that here where I live there are many different meetings, locations, times, topics. I have found some to be as you described, not helpful, I don't go to those anymore. On the other hand I have found others to be full of positive happy people focused on living in the present, not dwelling in the misery of the past, I continue to attend these.
My second thought is more complicated. I am 75 days sober this time around, and I haven't really decided how I want to approach long term sobriety. I attend the meetings I get something out of, but haven't been working the program. I have been reading some on the the topic, both pro and anti recovery group. I am not sure for me that not drinking is enough, I spent so many years dealing with everything by getting hammered that sometimes I flounder. I spent so long isolated, I don't have any real friends, certainly no one I could discuss being alcohol free with. Online support groups give me a place to float my thoughts, but they don't replace interacting with real people in the real world.
Well that probably doesn't make any sense. If not groups what is your plan?
LC
My first thought is that here where I live there are many different meetings, locations, times, topics. I have found some to be as you described, not helpful, I don't go to those anymore. On the other hand I have found others to be full of positive happy people focused on living in the present, not dwelling in the misery of the past, I continue to attend these.
My second thought is more complicated. I am 75 days sober this time around, and I haven't really decided how I want to approach long term sobriety. I attend the meetings I get something out of, but haven't been working the program. I have been reading some on the the topic, both pro and anti recovery group. I am not sure for me that not drinking is enough, I spent so many years dealing with everything by getting hammered that sometimes I flounder. I spent so long isolated, I don't have any real friends, certainly no one I could discuss being alcohol free with. Online support groups give me a place to float my thoughts, but they don't replace interacting with real people in the real world.
Well that probably doesn't make any sense. If not groups what is your plan?
LC
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,947
one additional comment on the "losers" statement.
I've heard people say "stick with the winners", at meetings. I used to think nothing of it, but have taken offense to that statement for a while. it implies that there are also "losers" in the program, and it implies that the "winners" are better than the losers and the newcomers.
alcohol and drugs don't care if you are a loser or a winner.
"loser" is a name-calling-judgement-value-opinion WORD that people use, probably because they are insecure about their own self.
that's it...just another thought for this wonderful stew
I've heard people say "stick with the winners", at meetings. I used to think nothing of it, but have taken offense to that statement for a while. it implies that there are also "losers" in the program, and it implies that the "winners" are better than the losers and the newcomers.
alcohol and drugs don't care if you are a loser or a winner.
"loser" is a name-calling-judgement-value-opinion WORD that people use, probably because they are insecure about their own self.
that's it...just another thought for this wonderful stew
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
I have found the stick with the winners concept to exclude people and create clicks...so don't care for it....so i just ignore it.
Even though it can be taken wrong though, i have always liked what i heard one speaker say....a winner is a looser who never stops trying, you didn't do anything wrong, you kept coming back...
That inspired me when i went through a period of not being able to maintain sobriety.
Even though it can be taken wrong though, i have always liked what i heard one speaker say....a winner is a looser who never stops trying, you didn't do anything wrong, you kept coming back...
That inspired me when i went through a period of not being able to maintain sobriety.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,947
Originally Posted by ananda 
....a winner is a looser who never stops trying, you didn't do anything wrong, you kept coming back...
That inspired me when i went through a period of not being able to maintain sobriety.
That inspired me when i went through a period of not being able to maintain sobriety.
thank you for sharing that one.....haven't heard it until now.
One of my difficulties is naming and thinking of myself as a loser. it is a hard thing to get away from. we were taught it in school, by parents, at jobs, and in AA. I have a long way to go to stop thinking of myself in terms of winning and losing.
the statement you shared, ananda, is cool for me. My comfort zone is to regard myself as a loser in many ways. Often I have denied my "loser-ness" by noting my career history, or the ownership of house/car and thinking that makes me a winner. makes me "better than". but deep inside I've felt that I've come up short my whole adult life.
I have come up short. but there is hope. I can keep plugging away, and keep practicing to live life--to live in the moment--and to let my truthful, honest, spontaneous light come forth. then there will be no winner or loser anymore maybe. then I will have simply Lived.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 486
Congrats on your sobriety.
I have a simple suggestion for you regarding groups - don't go. If you are having that much distress over the groups you are attending then don't go. It is always your choice. There may be consequences associated with your choice, but you always have a choice.
You can also choose to attend different AA groups, try a different program of recovery such as SMART, Rational Recovery, Outpatient treatment and the list goes on. If you want to stay sober then the options are there.
So the question becomes Do you want to stay sober?
I wish you the best in life and thanks for posting.
I have a simple suggestion for you regarding groups - don't go. If you are having that much distress over the groups you are attending then don't go. It is always your choice. There may be consequences associated with your choice, but you always have a choice.
You can also choose to attend different AA groups, try a different program of recovery such as SMART, Rational Recovery, Outpatient treatment and the list goes on. If you want to stay sober then the options are there.
So the question becomes Do you want to stay sober?
I wish you the best in life and thanks for posting.
Looking For Myself...Sober
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Where the heart is
Posts: 10,209
I know everytime I go pick up and use ..I most definately am a loser.
Everyday clean and sober. However I may do that.
I am victorious.
I dont need a chip, a key chain, or anyone to validate that for me.
Anyone with the desire and who puts forth effort is a winner in my eyes.
No matter how it's done.
Read my sig.
Everyday clean and sober. However I may do that.
I am victorious.
I dont need a chip, a key chain, or anyone to validate that for me.
Anyone with the desire and who puts forth effort is a winner in my eyes.
No matter how it's done.
Read my sig.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Ok, firstly, I'm sorry about the losers comment. I associate the words alcoholic or drug addict with loser, broken and other negative words.
I have tried AA, SMART and a women's 16 step group. SMART and the 16 step group don't give me an inspirational speech that sounds like a pyramid scheme, but neither of them really are useful to me. I have no peers in the old men in SMART and I'm not into holding hands and lighting candles in the women's group.
My main problem is that I don't talk to people about heavy stuff. My friends know I am not drinking. But I've never discussed anything from relationships to hard career choices, to anything with them. And I'm not willing to tell my parents (I'm 25) since they reacted so badly to when I told them I was depressed in college. They've lost their right to know these things.
So, I don't talk to people. I don't take comfort in talking to people. I don't care that other people feel the same urges to drink when they quit. It doesn't matter to me.
My boyfriend is the only one I do talk to, and being the child of an alcoholic who buys into the whole ACA traits "nonsense", he also thinks I ought to be going to meetings. I guess I think I ought to be going too. That's what recovering alcoholics do. I just... I don't get anything out of them even when I have an open mind, even when no one is pushing anything on me. It just seems like people gathering together to see how many ways they can say that drinking is bad for you.
I have tried AA, SMART and a women's 16 step group. SMART and the 16 step group don't give me an inspirational speech that sounds like a pyramid scheme, but neither of them really are useful to me. I have no peers in the old men in SMART and I'm not into holding hands and lighting candles in the women's group.
My main problem is that I don't talk to people about heavy stuff. My friends know I am not drinking. But I've never discussed anything from relationships to hard career choices, to anything with them. And I'm not willing to tell my parents (I'm 25) since they reacted so badly to when I told them I was depressed in college. They've lost their right to know these things.
So, I don't talk to people. I don't take comfort in talking to people. I don't care that other people feel the same urges to drink when they quit. It doesn't matter to me.
My boyfriend is the only one I do talk to, and being the child of an alcoholic who buys into the whole ACA traits "nonsense", he also thinks I ought to be going to meetings. I guess I think I ought to be going too. That's what recovering alcoholics do. I just... I don't get anything out of them even when I have an open mind, even when no one is pushing anything on me. It just seems like people gathering together to see how many ways they can say that drinking is bad for you.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Goldfish, interesting post...a bit harsh IMO.
While you may not believe in the "propaganda" portion of the group, I bet you never had a problem hanging out with these "losers" at the local bar. When people come together to support each other thru a difficult time in their lives "losers" would not be the word I would use to describe them.
I personally did use the group dynamic to start my path into a lifetime of sobriety. I found it very helpful...as many people do. While I no longer attend any group meetings I have never considered anyone who attended losers as it was help they were seeking...just like me.
There are many paths to the same destination, pick yours and walk it.
While you may not believe in the "propaganda" portion of the group, I bet you never had a problem hanging out with these "losers" at the local bar. When people come together to support each other thru a difficult time in their lives "losers" would not be the word I would use to describe them.
I personally did use the group dynamic to start my path into a lifetime of sobriety. I found it very helpful...as many people do. While I no longer attend any group meetings I have never considered anyone who attended losers as it was help they were seeking...just like me.
There are many paths to the same destination, pick yours and walk it.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 1,007
Poor Goldfish.....how are you doing today? Long as you're staying clean, the group thing you can decide on later - obviously now it's not working in your favor(especially if it's making you want to use..)
I have never gone (am planning to) so I can't make much of an informed opinion I guess - just hoping you're doing ok.
I have never gone (am planning to) so I can't make much of an informed opinion I guess - just hoping you're doing ok.
Looking For Myself...Sober
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Where the heart is
Posts: 10,209
I mean so bottom line.
The main focus here should be what are you going to do to ensure your recovery?
Whatever your take on meetings and all that is irrelevant to me.
What is it you think you should do to help you.
You say you have a hard time talking to people.
I think you proved otherwise here.
You did a pretty good job.
And I am so glad you could voice your opinion.
We need to do that in our attempts to get better.
Your doing good so far in staying clean. But you came here for a reason.
So what is your going to do?
If you dont know.
Just listen to people.
Do whatever works for you.
The goal is the same. I dont care how anyone gets there.
The main focus here should be what are you going to do to ensure your recovery?
Whatever your take on meetings and all that is irrelevant to me.
What is it you think you should do to help you.
You say you have a hard time talking to people.
I think you proved otherwise here.
You did a pretty good job.
And I am so glad you could voice your opinion.
We need to do that in our attempts to get better.
Your doing good so far in staying clean. But you came here for a reason.
So what is your going to do?
If you dont know.
Just listen to people.
Do whatever works for you.
The goal is the same. I dont care how anyone gets there.
FreeSpirit
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Inside My Spirit
Posts: 1,274
I could relate to you about hating the meetings, but I'm not going to
agree that they are a bunch of losers, thats just my opinion
today I made crazy meetings, I made about three meetings and
trust me on the last one, I want it to run because I felt this
uncomfortable feelings about that I didn't need it
to be here, that I'm not in that level that I didn't ate
out of garbage cans like they did, when you compare, and not
Identified, thats were you could get cough in the self center
Grandiosely role, remember thats just my opinion.
and if you feel that you could do this on your own, more power to
you, But I must get honest with you, you wont
I know cause I had the same expectations, and here I'm staring
all over again, cause I had the we, my self, and I, program mentality
this is just my experience of strength, and Hope,God Bless
and just keep posting
agree that they are a bunch of losers, thats just my opinion
today I made crazy meetings, I made about three meetings and
trust me on the last one, I want it to run because I felt this
uncomfortable feelings about that I didn't need it
to be here, that I'm not in that level that I didn't ate
out of garbage cans like they did, when you compare, and not
Identified, thats were you could get cough in the self center
Grandiosely role, remember thats just my opinion.
and if you feel that you could do this on your own, more power to
you, But I must get honest with you, you wont
I know cause I had the same expectations, and here I'm staring
all over again, cause I had the we, my self, and I, program mentality
this is just my experience of strength, and Hope,God Bless
and just keep posting
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 372
Goldfish,
I read your second post and think I understand where you are coming from a little better. My advice to you would be to stop trying to figure it out, maybe try some different meetings that you may get more out of, but most of all, JUST KEEP GOING. Keep coming back is without a doubt the best thing anyone can tell you in my opinion. The longer you hang around the more you will learn and grow. I generally walk away from every meeting with at least one good thought/lesson. If you hang around long enough, before you know it AA will grow on you vice you growing into A.A.
Hope this helps,
John
I read your second post and think I understand where you are coming from a little better. My advice to you would be to stop trying to figure it out, maybe try some different meetings that you may get more out of, but most of all, JUST KEEP GOING. Keep coming back is without a doubt the best thing anyone can tell you in my opinion. The longer you hang around the more you will learn and grow. I generally walk away from every meeting with at least one good thought/lesson. If you hang around long enough, before you know it AA will grow on you vice you growing into A.A.
Hope this helps,
John
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 69
I think you should find what fits. If 80% of folks who quit alcohol and drugs do it with no program then odds are you can too. The deal is that you have to decide to stop and stick with it. I do not care for the long suffering disease and fear life that some adhere to ... but YOU have to find what works for you.
I kept going back and it grew on me as the thing I did not want to do for the rest of my life and so I stopped going there, got clean and joined a club for my favorite hobby. For me it is focus on a positive thing that is beneficial. I am not in the majority here in this forum, but in the larger picture I am in the majority. Read about positive affirmations and the effect of negative self talk.
Thinking you should do what you think you should do and not follow!
I kept going back and it grew on me as the thing I did not want to do for the rest of my life and so I stopped going there, got clean and joined a club for my favorite hobby. For me it is focus on a positive thing that is beneficial. I am not in the majority here in this forum, but in the larger picture I am in the majority. Read about positive affirmations and the effect of negative self talk.
Thinking you should do what you think you should do and not follow!
everything is already ok
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne Victoria Australia
Posts: 19,793
meetings or not meetings is not the point really. The point is how is your life after you quit drinking or using? Is it still insane and full of fear and anger or are you sorting out the underlying issues and leading a wonderful life?
Kevin
Kevin
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 347
Hm. Give it time.
6 or 7 weeks clean, I was not a very people-loving person. It took almost four months for me to work up to going to face to face meetings. No, I didn't do 90 in 90. Your recovery is up to you. I keep going back because even if I could stay clean on my own I've made some good friends in the rooms, and I've noticed a change in how I feel about myself since I've been going. But they're your feet, your path. Good luck.
6 or 7 weeks clean, I was not a very people-loving person. It took almost four months for me to work up to going to face to face meetings. No, I didn't do 90 in 90. Your recovery is up to you. I keep going back because even if I could stay clean on my own I've made some good friends in the rooms, and I've noticed a change in how I feel about myself since I've been going. But they're your feet, your path. Good luck.
Certified Scrabble Cheat!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Hill City, MS
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by Goldfish
I hate groups. I've tried several of them. Its just a bunch of losers sitting around and talking about how they screwed up. It makes me feel bad about myself to go, or even think about going, because I don't want to be associated with these losers and their propaganda.
Am I wrong?
Am I wrong?
My friend, whatever keeps you sober, focused and on the road to recovery is just peachy with me. We are a big ole family here that wants to get and stay sober. Namecalling doesn't help get us there.
Peace.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
goldfish - I really like being sober. It's alot more fun, but quite a bit of work to remain so. Some people require more alone time than others...we have group members who tend to be more reserved. I'm not real familiar with recovery groups other than AA/NA, but they seem to be helpful for people. If you aren't interested in groups, but are interested in staying sober, SR can be a great way to provide yourself with support. Hope you get something out of coming to SR and reading the posts....and posting what you feel comfortable.
What helps you to stay sober today?
Welcome to SR!
What helps you to stay sober today?
Welcome to SR!
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