An Atheist Sponsor
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
I have found sobriety to be expanding, not limiting. AA does not ask that anyone conform. It's in one of the traditions. But the real question was about getting an athiest sponsor....clearly from this thread there are many aithests in the recovery programs. Maybe a temp till you find one crisco. I had a buddhist sponsor for a while...advantages and disadvantages to that.
Today's Muse
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West end
Posts: 1,081
I could elaborate on the topic further, but will keep it brief. I don't want to hijack the thread.
Being able to have options can be a great thing. Due to demographics, it has been my experience that options can become limited. At that point, we have to learn to adapt and be realistic to what needs can be met. I hope everyone finds what it is they are looking for. If not, then time for plan B.
Being able to have options can be a great thing. Due to demographics, it has been my experience that options can become limited. At that point, we have to learn to adapt and be realistic to what needs can be met. I hope everyone finds what it is they are looking for. If not, then time for plan B.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Righthere, Rightnow
Posts: 1,424
Hello
When I got to AA I was out of ideas. I was defeated by alcoholism. I had been doing it my way all my life and it wasn’t working well? AA worked real good and has been for over twenty years. Is your way working? If not, you may want to change things up; one thing is certain, recovery requires major change. You can go with AA as it is and do it the best you can, or, as Bugs and Yogurt suggested, try another route.
Just remember, alcoholism is a killer illness, and getting sober is not easy. If it was, we wouldn’t be here. I have no doubt that if you are going to get sober, you will be going through some serious changes. What those changes are, I can’t say. I can say a willingness to change is going to be required.
Just remember, alcoholism is a killer illness, and getting sober is not easy. If it was, we wouldn’t be here. I have no doubt that if you are going to get sober, you will be going through some serious changes. What those changes are, I can’t say. I can say a willingness to change is going to be required.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Righthere, Rightnow
Posts: 1,424
I just wanted to add something here.
I hope you don’t think anyone is being a hard ass. I think that you are welcome no matter what. However, if you look at AA’s Twelve Steps – the AA Program of Recovery – you’ll not only see the word God, but you’ll see that at the end of the Steps is the point that we are trying to reach. That point has to do with having a "spiritual awakening," which can be a significant personality change. See the Big book Appendices II (?).
It’s not like you take six out of the twelve steps and get half recovered. The steps are a journey, a path if you will, at the end of which is this spiritual awakening. That’s a major point in recovery through AA. You should really read the Steps in the Big Book at the beginning of Chapter 5, and also the chapter entitled “Spiritual Experience” in the back of the book.
Big Book On Line
This will give you an idea of what AA is all about. I don’t know about these other programs or groups. No need. Like I said, AA worked for me.
It’s not like you take six out of the twelve steps and get half recovered. The steps are a journey, a path if you will, at the end of which is this spiritual awakening. That’s a major point in recovery through AA. You should really read the Steps in the Big Book at the beginning of Chapter 5, and also the chapter entitled “Spiritual Experience” in the back of the book.
Big Book On Line
This will give you an idea of what AA is all about. I don’t know about these other programs or groups. No need. Like I said, AA worked for me.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16
Hi mle-sober,
I googled this web site, looking for a `secular recovery' forum specifically, and this one came up. I had thought I had found a secular forum. I didn't realise this was religious forum too, or I probably would not have joined nor spoken in quite the same tone.
Thanks for writing anyway; after reading your post I wanted to clarify a few things. I am agnostic, not aetheist ( I agree with your views re aetheism), I put the existance of God into the category of `unknown' because there is no evidence to support a conviction either way.
I can see why my post would not go down well on a religious recovery group.
Sorry.
I googled this web site, looking for a `secular recovery' forum specifically, and this one came up. I had thought I had found a secular forum. I didn't realise this was religious forum too, or I probably would not have joined nor spoken in quite the same tone.
Thanks for writing anyway; after reading your post I wanted to clarify a few things. I am agnostic, not aetheist ( I agree with your views re aetheism), I put the existance of God into the category of `unknown' because there is no evidence to support a conviction either way.
I can see why my post would not go down well on a religious recovery group.
Sorry.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: my room in ct.
Posts: 58,110
whats wrong with me?
i'm a atheist, a agnostic, and i believe in God!
"a person or thing of supreme value"
that thing of great value is sobriety!
its priceless!
just one of my powers that be!
good wishes!
i'm a atheist, a agnostic, and i believe in God!
"a person or thing of supreme value"
that thing of great value is sobriety!
its priceless!
just one of my powers that be!
good wishes!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www.ericwhitfieldart.com
Posts: 114
Originally Posted by yogurt75 
I have a diesel car. Can someone fill up my car with unleaded regular gas? Why did the manufacturer of my car not allow me to put any kind of fuel in the car I purchased?
I like the taste of Coca Cola much better than Pepsi Cola. I like the look of the can Pepsi comes in. Why can't Pepsi put Coca Cola in their cans?
I live in an urban city. I love lakes. Why can't the city flood the streets in my neighborhood so I can have a lake?
Burger King offers a Whopper Bacon Cheeseburger. However, I prefer chicken over beef. I prefer spinach to lettuce. I prefer chopped liver instead of cheese. I prefer Liverwurst over bacon. I prefer matzoh over buns. If I ordered what I prefer would it still be a Whopper Bacon Cheeseburger?
There are quite a few secular programs out there addressing alcoholism and addiction to other substances. Rather than demanding that AA become something that it isn't or wasn't designed to be, why not go to those other organizations that more suit your needs?
Next time you go to Burger King order the Whopper Double Bacon Cheeseburger with chicken instead of beef, spinach instead of lettuce, chopped liver instead of cheese, liverwurst instead of bacon and matzoh instead of a bun. While you are at it, order celery french fries and a can of Pepsi filled with coke. Have It Your Way at Burger King goes only just so far before they tell you where you can put your order.
Why does the minority always demand that the majority give up what they want in favor of what the minority wants and the minority always claims they are being discriminated against because the majority doesn't want to become just like the minority?
Go to Secular Sobriety, SOS, Life Ring, Women For Sobriety, Rational Recovery, SMART Recovery or a bunch of other secular programs and get your non-believing "sponsor." Why demand that AA become just like them because there already is a them? The secular programs are waiting for you with open arms - go to them!
I like the taste of Coca Cola much better than Pepsi Cola. I like the look of the can Pepsi comes in. Why can't Pepsi put Coca Cola in their cans?
I live in an urban city. I love lakes. Why can't the city flood the streets in my neighborhood so I can have a lake?
Burger King offers a Whopper Bacon Cheeseburger. However, I prefer chicken over beef. I prefer spinach to lettuce. I prefer chopped liver instead of cheese. I prefer Liverwurst over bacon. I prefer matzoh over buns. If I ordered what I prefer would it still be a Whopper Bacon Cheeseburger?
There are quite a few secular programs out there addressing alcoholism and addiction to other substances. Rather than demanding that AA become something that it isn't or wasn't designed to be, why not go to those other organizations that more suit your needs?
Next time you go to Burger King order the Whopper Double Bacon Cheeseburger with chicken instead of beef, spinach instead of lettuce, chopped liver instead of cheese, liverwurst instead of bacon and matzoh instead of a bun. While you are at it, order celery french fries and a can of Pepsi filled with coke. Have It Your Way at Burger King goes only just so far before they tell you where you can put your order.
Why does the minority always demand that the majority give up what they want in favor of what the minority wants and the minority always claims they are being discriminated against because the majority doesn't want to become just like the minority?
Go to Secular Sobriety, SOS, Life Ring, Women For Sobriety, Rational Recovery, SMART Recovery or a bunch of other secular programs and get your non-believing "sponsor." Why demand that AA become just like them because there already is a them? The secular programs are waiting for you with open arms - go to them!
Holy overkill, Batman!SECULAR ORGANIZATIONS FOR SOBRIETY (SOS) Secular support group for recovering persons. Thursdays, 8 p.m., SHARE, 5521 Grosvenor Boulevard, Marina del Rey (323) 666-4295.
ATHEISTS UNITED (AU) (Los Angeles) 4th Sundays except December. 11:00AM, Center for Inquiry, 4773 Hollywood Blvd., L.A. (323) 666-4258.
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
One thing I am not is religous.
Diety in AA? Never seen one as a requirement, I got and stay sober in a faily small town, we have athiest, agnostics, Christians, Buddists, Jews, and muslims who have all worked the 12 steps and are happily staying sober.
The one thing none of them did was walk into the rooms and insult the beleifs of others, nor did they demand any one beleive in the way they did.
I am not a follower of any faith, nor do I beleive in any specific diety as defined by anyone else. I simply beleive there is a Power greater then me period, I call him God because it is a nice short 3 letter word and if you look up the meaning of the word God you will find that not all of the definitions indicate a beleif in any religions diety.
BTW my present sponsee is an agnostic, he just finished going through the 12 steps about a month ago, and Friday was his one year anniversary.
AA is what ever one makes of it, it never ceases to amaze me the number of athiest and agnostics I see getting sober in AA when I see other atheist and agnostics saying there is no way they could use the 12 steps. What is the difference between the 2 groups. The athiests I know have said that they were using the God deal as an excuse, once they decided they were really ready to do what ever it took to get and stay sober they easily found that one only needed to beleive in something, anything greater then them selfs.
There are a ton of other programs out there that are secular that obviously work, why not try one of those?
We all have excuses, I had a ton, but once I was willing to do what ever it took for me to get and stay sober I found a way.
BTW I never heard a single mention of any religion, diety, church or synagogue by my sponsor when we were working the steps, to be honest the only thing I know about my sponsor and religion is that he has not been to a church in 19-20 years, I think he is a Christian though....... I think.
Diety in AA? Never seen one as a requirement, I got and stay sober in a faily small town, we have athiest, agnostics, Christians, Buddists, Jews, and muslims who have all worked the 12 steps and are happily staying sober.
The one thing none of them did was walk into the rooms and insult the beleifs of others, nor did they demand any one beleive in the way they did.
I am not a follower of any faith, nor do I beleive in any specific diety as defined by anyone else. I simply beleive there is a Power greater then me period, I call him God because it is a nice short 3 letter word and if you look up the meaning of the word God you will find that not all of the definitions indicate a beleif in any religions diety.
BTW my present sponsee is an agnostic, he just finished going through the 12 steps about a month ago, and Friday was his one year anniversary.
AA is what ever one makes of it, it never ceases to amaze me the number of athiest and agnostics I see getting sober in AA when I see other atheist and agnostics saying there is no way they could use the 12 steps. What is the difference between the 2 groups. The athiests I know have said that they were using the God deal as an excuse, once they decided they were really ready to do what ever it took to get and stay sober they easily found that one only needed to beleive in something, anything greater then them selfs.
There are a ton of other programs out there that are secular that obviously work, why not try one of those?
We all have excuses, I had a ton, but once I was willing to do what ever it took for me to get and stay sober I found a way.
BTW I never heard a single mention of any religion, diety, church or synagogue by my sponsor when we were working the steps, to be honest the only thing I know about my sponsor and religion is that he has not been to a church in 19-20 years, I think he is a Christian though....... I think.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 51,569
That's been my experience too, Taz, though I don't faithfully go to AA meetings - the ones I did go to, never once did anyone mention a specific religion, or Jesus, or even God that I remember. It's a shame so many are turned off by AA because of the mistaken belief that being religious is a requirement. The co-founders tried so hard to not have that happen.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 521
Hiya crisco.
I just wanted to add my experience.
I was convinced I needed a certain "type" of sponsor too. In my case...I needed a man sponsor. I dont relate well with other women, Ive had a problem with them my whole life, and they seem to have a problem with me.
So whats a girl to do.......so I figured I'll just look for a man sponsor.
The one I found (who said NO by the way...but he will help me find the very type of sponsor I figured I didnt want...a female) was kind, full of wisdom, and its pretty obvious he has his sh!t together and runs a very good program.
You certainly arent the first person in the program who has had an issue with the God thing. I suggest you bring this up at a meeting....tell everyone you are looking for a sponsor, and what your issues are.
Then...LISTEN. With a very open mind.
Find the people in recovery who have their sh!t together and take their suggestions...even if you dont feel like it. Even if you think they are wrong. Its working for me. In ways I never would have imagined it could.
I was just ready to surrender and do what I was told by people who had walked this path before me and learned something.
I just wanted to add my experience.
I was convinced I needed a certain "type" of sponsor too. In my case...I needed a man sponsor. I dont relate well with other women, Ive had a problem with them my whole life, and they seem to have a problem with me.
So whats a girl to do.......so I figured I'll just look for a man sponsor.
The one I found (who said NO by the way...but he will help me find the very type of sponsor I figured I didnt want...a female) was kind, full of wisdom, and its pretty obvious he has his sh!t together and runs a very good program.
You certainly arent the first person in the program who has had an issue with the God thing. I suggest you bring this up at a meeting....tell everyone you are looking for a sponsor, and what your issues are.
Then...LISTEN. With a very open mind.
Find the people in recovery who have their sh!t together and take their suggestions...even if you dont feel like it. Even if you think they are wrong. Its working for me. In ways I never would have imagined it could.
I was just ready to surrender and do what I was told by people who had walked this path before me and learned something.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
well - not to rain on anyones parade, but around here you here those things in meetings. However, they are usually not heavily a part of the meeting, and most people are open to other forms than their own on the higher power. I figure people are people whereever you go. I share my religios affiliation sometimes if I think there is a reason that someone there needs to know there are non-christians, atheists, agnostics etc. that recover as well.
And of course the people here have been very supportive as well. Don't let the word choices keep you from hearing what people are saying.
And of course the people here have been very supportive as well. Don't let the word choices keep you from hearing what people are saying.
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