AliceTW

Oh, I just saw the post from you Courage! How great that you guys got to meet up! That's so great

Dee74

I have an ex Mrs Dee like that Alice.

I can only give you my thoughts on my situation...

Tough love does no good because she doesn't want to hear the truth and then I become part of the problem in her eyes of all the people against her.

Superficial contact doesn't really work as superficiality was the last thing she wanted...she wanted me to 'be there for her';

The only thing that worked for me was disengaging completely - but even then you have to prepared for a lot of grief before she accepts you're done..'why won't you take my calls' etc

I'm sorry you're in this predicament,

D

courage2

Hey Alice! Watch what you wish for, or next thing you know, I'll be in your town, longing for company. Tam was very kind to me when I reached out to her, even tho she'd had a hard day at work.

Here's a thought -- maybe I can change my username to Trouble and people can borrow me -- no, nobody wants that

Re your "friend", I guess you should examine why you consider her a friend at all. Do you trust her? Benefit from her company? Feel you can depend on her? If none of those, maybe what you get out of the relationship is unhealthy, maybe it feeds your resentments or other negative patterns in your makeup.

If it's not a healthy relationship for you, I think you should drop it. She'll survive -- people like that always do, she sounds like there are a lot of people she manipulates. At some point, she may change, and then, maybe, she'll reach out to you again, differently -- but you can't make that happen, and you shouldn't wait around getting used until it does.

Just my $.02. From a person who doesn't know from friends. But wants you to have good ones -- there shouldn't be any other kind.

Tamerua

Alice, she is a big girl and is making these choice. It is hard to detach but... For you sanity. It isn't fair that she calls with dram and when she needs someone .

Napster! Glad you're here! How do you like the meetings? What kind of meetings are they?

Courage! What fun! Come down any time, even if it isn't for work. It is cool to meet someone from here, it makes it more real.

NapsteR1

I'd go for complete cut off but with a rounded email explaining why. But that's just my $0.32 (had to convert my tuppence worth).

Very cool to hear you both met up C and T, that's brilliant.

NapsteR1

Had chance to think more about last night - thanks Courage btw as it was your shove that got me there - there were others but yours was the tipping one!

Me and John were talking about how I'd found the place, and others were chipping in with "there's Tuesdays at x town which is good" and so forth and then it kind of dawned on me "Ahhhh.. so.. there's this whole network of meeting places and I'd be welcome at any of them and we're all trying to help each other deal with doing the same thing?".... durrr... yep!

I've always been literally physically averse to entering into any kind of space where people are coming together for support, be that church or marriage counselling or my mother's kookie non denominational spiritual stuff. The Dark Side of me screaming - "THESE PEOPLE ARE WEAK, GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT!!" like some kind of vampire in the sunlight.

I thought I was being stronger by not accepting help because if you don't accept it you don't need it right?

After 4 spectacular dives of the wagon since I started this, each one faster and harder than the last and ending up with more and more disastrous collateral damage (nothing says Howdy to your new neighbours than blue flashing lights) I think the penny has finally dropped - I might well have been taking the wrong approach?!?, I think now that help makes you stronger and turning your back on support makes you weaker and therefore more susceptible to crash points like HALT.

Thanks All :o)

Tamerua

Napster, I love your post. It is so true. I had that same mindset. Even in AA, I have that mindset still and I rarely share or have a topic because I don't want to be seen as weak or struggling, even if I am. You've given me something to think about.

I'm glad you found the network... Is that like the matrix?!? Lol

tazzle

coming in late to the party, (as usual) my vote Alice is for the tough love, tell her in a no nonsense voice how it is and let it be, she will either take it, suck it up and see your point or get pissy and walk away, either way it is up to her to choose the path. Your not closing the door on your friendship, just holding it open until she decides if you are closing it as she walks away or behind her as she walks in.

Napster- sounding good old friend, I also agree with the "must be weak" about looking for support. Ego's, go figure.

Job is going well, having a hard time getting my voice and instructions to the inmates down, need to be "LOUD and proud" so to speak. That is the area my fto constantly is telling me, have my first eval tonight, (will get this weekly for awhile), not real nervous about it, I know I have to work on my voice and inmate interaction, overall I personally am pleased with my progress, but need to step it up.

My AV has happily been slammed down by the fact that I am in a ZERO tolerance environment, the mere odor of alcohol is a fireable offense, especially since I am on probation for the next year and can be let go for anything at any time. If I were to entertain the thought of stopping at the store on the way home, I would have to change clothes into civies. So those are all good things, gives me a sense of "peace" I guess I would describe it as.

Stay strong all!

AliceTW

Thank you all for the great input. I think you're all right - cut off. It's a shame, because it's one of the longest friendships I've had... but it has always been a bit one-sided, now I stop and think about it. Courage - the answers to your questions you asked are all "no"

I'm going to consider telling her why I'm 'ending it', in a letter maybe, rather than a phone call. Like Taz said, it's a way of leaving the door open for her.

I'll think on it some more, but I'm certain of the fact that -like you said Tam- I'm done being part of the drama

Courage - no threats, come visit! I'll return the favour when I'm out your way next. I've made a deal with myself to NEVER get tests done in the lead up to a holiday, after having to cancel our visit to the US last year haha! Can you believe it's been just over a year since I got my cancer diagnosis?

Napster - you win Quote of the Day! "turning your back on support makes you weaker". I'm glad for your epiphany

The job sounds good Taz, a very interesting environment!

Tamerua

Taz, have you seen Orange is the New Black? They have a girl who they say needs her voice. Your story reminded me of that. Do you like the job?

Alice, good luck. I like the letter idea. Maybe that will be the push she needs to get help or change. Planting the seed so to speak.

Get home ok, courage?

I have been thinking of switching up some of my meetings...'at my home group I had taken on a duty which I like but because it is a small group and no one wants to get involved, I've obtained other duties. I did go back and say that I'm overloaded but people still ask or assume I'm doing something so.... I'm checking out other places now. Lol not sure if that is the right thing to do, but I don't know what the protocol is for that kinda thing.

I went to this speaker meeting (where you and I went, courage) and the guy who spoke was fascinating. But he also said a bunch of stuff I needed to hear, like letting things go and examining yourself more, etc.'and asking for help.

Off to run, everyone have a good day!

Tamerua

Just stopping by to say good morning! Hope everyone is doing ok.

courage2

Hey folks! I'm back in NYC -- thanks Tam, it was so wonderful to meet you & to feel welcome in a strange place. It made a big difference in my trip. Friday night would have been pretty grim without you!

I was pretty tired when I got back. Even though the trip was so much less stressful than they usually are -- still, I guess I'd been anxious. It really took until yesterday for me to get my NYC landlegs back. That's ok. I met w/my sponsor on Sunday -- her 13th year sober anniversary is today so I'm going to see her again today. Then Saturday, maybe my 5th step. Maybe.

Napster, -- I completely agree. The hardest thing for me is asking for help. Just a for instance, I knew I was going to Tampa for like the last 3 months. Did I talk to Tam about it before last week? Noooo. Because I was proud, but nervous, and avoiding admitting I was nervous, and trying to convince myself it would just go away or I could butch it out. So finally I reached out to her, and she was totally sweet, & help helped. It always does, in my experience. The hardest part is allowing yourself to be willing to receive it.

tazzle, maybe if you develop a new voice you'll have to change that avatar? I'm glad you're pleased with your own work -- you're probably your harshest critic, so I'll bet you're doing fine.

Alice, I'll let you know if I'm ever in your part of the world, for sure. As for getting tests done before traveling -- I'm awfully glad you caught that cancer in time! No joking about that!

Tam, I think opening up your AA network and routines is a great idea. We're lucky in NYC that there are a ton of choices in meetings, and so I know when I'm p-ed off or just tired of my homegroup, I can continue to get support but from a fresh group of people. And you never know where you'll meet or hear someone who will really inspire you!

Gonzo, I hope you're doing well with the class and all.

Ready, where have you gone?

NapsteR1

The hardest part is allowing yourself to be willing to receive it.

so why is that then I wonder? seems to be a common thread amongst A's?

could it be we've spent so many mornings and post drunken arguments / situations after convincing ourselves that we weren't the problem and after many years of those we believe our own BS and are "betraying" ourselves by asking for help?

was hoping to get to one of the other meetings the guys on Friday mentioned tonight but am sat at the dining table waiting for people to join a conference call... a long one it will be...

Dee74

I was equal parts, guilty ashamed and angry I'd 'let things get so bad' Napster.
I was also proud.

I did NOT want to ask for help.

I wanted to fix things, myself, in private and have no one else be any the wiser.
The fact it was already way too late for that escaped me for quite a few years.

D

courage2

For me, it's pride, and it's self-hatred -- I'm simultaneously convinced that my own way of thinking is perfectly rational (she says, pouring another double shot), and that I'm not worth the time to be helped. My inflated ego is grandiose in its delusion it can control everything, and in its sense of my own inevitable doom. In short, I just can't listen to myself. I have to ask others for help.

Once you start doing it, it's quite a thrill!

Tamerua

Ah the old why can't we accept help...

For me, it came from my childhood. Crying and feelings and admitting you needed help were weaknesses. Then, as a teenager, I was the only one in my family who had my act together and when you asked for help, it was tallied away for repayment later with interest.

It is incredibly hard for me to ask for help. Still. Even with my sponsor. Like courage... I will toil on something for weeks before I talk to her.

But then I see how silly it is. A guy in my home group told on himself and said that he has been thinking of drinking, out of the blue at 10 months. I am delighted he asked for help! And we all had something to offer.

Ah.

Courage, glad you got back and are back into the groove... Traveling is exhausting. Do it.
Your 5th. Take the plunge. Move on to the next steps. It will help with your self perspective. You really are wonderful, ya know. Now you have to see it.

On that note, I am crabby from work.... The job that is a step down and I thought more money isn't more money. Now the move makes less sense. I'm going to let my REM work on that one for me. I'm off to bed, everyone have a good night.

AliceTW

Very quick drive by to say... UNI IS OVER! My last assignment has been graded and I've finished with a GPA of 5.5 (mid-way between a credit and a distinction). I'm not attending the ceremony, so my degree will arrive by post some time in December. Hooray! All over!

Dee74

Congratulations Alice

D

courage2

Congratulations, Alice!

NapsteR1

Well done and congratulations Alice :o)