Theresa A.

Hello friends,

Hey, I'm so glad to have found a place to actually talk about the program. I guess I have been a part of sites that only really talk about the problem and not the solution. At times it is like vicariously using or something and certainly talking about the Steps is like talking to myself - good for journaling but no good for gathering some ES&H.

Accountability has kept me clean at times and I took on a new responsibility last Wednesday which is chairing a meeting tonight. I actually went to the whatever the meeting is called where we set this group up last year. It is pretty small and it was a lesson in itself as all the service I have been involved with has been. It's definitely a trip. Anyway, I recall I never wanted to even go back to this meeting as it was, in the end, set up the way one person wanted it to be. We stayed until we saw it that person's way. Pissed me off, ya know? Anyway - it is a Step alternating Tradition meeting. Tonight the topic is Tradition 4.

Tradition 4?! While I have done a lot of service in the past to keep from having to work the Steps - that's just it - I haven't ever fully worked the Steps and am on Step One right now. While I have the local guide to service and jumped into convention committee meetings and area meetings last year - I don't know squat about the Traditions.

So, what do you suggest? I am thinking if there are like 5 people there it won't matter anyway - especially if they are newcomers. I think - key here...I THINK (famous last words, right?) that if I were not a retread newcomer - I'd walk out of a Tradition 4 meeting. So, open it up for just plain open discussion in that case? See if anyone has any ES&H on Tradition 4 and then share openly? Any words on Tradition 4 that anyone here has to share?

I'd love to hear from anyone.

Sincerely,
Theresa

Moontime

4. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or N.A. as a whole.

Have you thought about reading step 4 in the It Works How and Why book first? My experience with the 4th tradition is that it protects NA meetings. Each meeting should be autonomous, but what happens when I start a meeting on 415 Ivy street at 7:00pm on Tuesday nites. You now start a meeting on 416 Ivy street at 7:15 pm on Tues Nites. Now your meeting is affecting my meeting, because we are right next to each other on the same nights. The 4th tradition protects the meetings.

I start a meeting and I name it the Dope fiends, you see that and start another a meeting called the Crackheads, this affects NA as a whole, yet we are autonomous to choose our own home group names. 4th tradition protects that too.

I hope I made some sense, on what I think the 4th tradition means to me

Theresa A.

Thank you.

I didn't read Step 4 from the It Works but I read Tradition 4 from the Basic Text. Don't the Steps and Traditions entertwine? How does Step 4 relate to Tradition 4? Does anyone know?

Theresa

Dan

Mmmm...
That's a good question. Inasmuch as I have done an honest inventory, and accepted spiritually that I am but a member of a group, my continuing interest will remained focused on the Fellowship as I progress in my recovery. That I remain a willing participant in the Group Conscience is, for me anyway, a reminder that I must remain active as an individual in my recovery, in return bringing to the group a constantly honest, updated version of myself.
Like Theresa said, does anyone know...

godsonmyside

Theresa, It Works How and Why, absolutely needed to learen how to Apply the tradition, Spiritual principles. IWHY pg.156 " While autonomy gives us certain freedoms, it also omplies responsibility for our actions and for the continued well-being os NA. As groups, we exercise our our responsibility to the Fellowship by taking inventory of our behavior and how we hold our meetings. Our groug exercises its autonomy in a resposible way when it takes care to consider the common welfare of the fellowshaip as a whole before it acts." The It Works How and Why is another weapon we need in the arsenal to go to war with. Traditions teach about applying the spiritual principles. :scratchch

Moontime

Oops, I ment read tradition 4 from the Green book

Theresa A.

Thanks everyone. I still don't have any answers. uh....duh....with just a dash of tommy chong is how I feel but I know it will all work out. I mean it's REALLY no big deal and I know that.

You know how people have using dreams? Have you ever had recovery dreams? I was just reading another post and it reminded me about how the other morning I woke up all po'd. I started sharing in a meeting in the dream and I started by saying, "I wasn't going to share but..." and the chair cut me off and starts in with something like, "That's ok blah blah blah". In the dream I got up out of my chair and stormed out while shouting, "What is this an INTERACTIVE meeting??"

whoa. That's not me - that I know of. I'd never do anything like that - that I know of. Interesting to say the least.

Theresa

namommy

Theresa,

As far as the steps and traditions intertwining, I was not taught that. I was taught that the 12 steps intertwine with one another, and the 12 traditions intertwine with one another, but not each other. The steps were meant for the individual to be able to grow in recover and stay clean, The traditions were meant to help protect the groups so NA could continue to be a place where addicts could recovery without fear, and we could continue to carry the message.

For your meeting, We have tradition meetings here, where we take the 'it works how and why' and read it a paragraph at a time. After each paragraph we open the floor to anyone who would like to share on that paragraph or any thing else that may be on their mind. This works well for small meetings, and becomes sort of a tradition study meeting. And, if while reading someone feels the need to share on more than one paragraph, that's fine.

Have faith that whatever format you chose, the message will be carried.

Theresa A.

Now that sounds good. You know moontime and godisonmyside both told me about IWH&W Tradition 4 Chapter but after you wrote it again I finally pulled out my book. Yeah - it does have Traditions in it - go figure and when I opened the book it opened right to the page Tradition 4 starts on. Wow.

Yeah - we can take turns reading it - share any ES&H regarding that or whatever else anyone wants to share about.

The lady who passed this meeting on to me tonight said sometimes there are only like 3 people there. It is a 1.5 hour meeting. What do you do then? Keep it an hour with 3 people and then leave? Much less 1.5 hours...

Thanks again,
Theresa

godsonmyside

YEah, You can be amazed that 3 people can make an hou and a half meeting go the distance, It really should stay open the full length. If the scheduled says it is, it should be. Went to a nooner today, I was pretty good 3 of us, 1:30 came fast.

namommy

I agree, the meeting should stay open for the full time. You never know when a newcomer or someone in pain may decide to show up late. If the meeting is not open when they get there, that may be the EXCUSE they were looking for.

If you finish the chapter before 1.5 hrs, make the rest of the meeting an open-forum meeting.

Theresa A.

OK, gotta get ready and go. I had to call to find out what to do with the money because....I KNOW what to do with it. Aw shucks she said it would only be like $7 at most anyway. hehe. OK thanks for sharing disease. Anyway, thanks everyone for your replies about it.

Theresa

andyaddict

All I can say is WOW!

It's honesty like this that I wish were practiced in committee meetings when discussing issues or matters involving an understanding of the traditions.

Didn't know the green-n-gold had traditions in it?!? And sitting on Area and Convention Committees?!? WOW!

a

tomvlll

No . The traditions and the steps don't relate in that way.

The AA steps and traditions ( NA 's are basically a copy of those) were written over 10 years apart. They weren't written like..." Ok here's step 1 , now what is a tradition that corresponds to that?"

Gmoney

I agree. The steps are for my recovery. The traditions are for the groups.

This is an old thread. I'm sure they've got help by now.

jimhere

Actually, the steps and traditions are related. In fact, the traditions are merely extensions of the principles found in the steps.

I'm an AA member, but the same traditions apply, whether it be an NA group or an AA group. I'd like to share an experience that illustrates several points.

Several years ago, my former home group was holding its group inventory. In our group inventory we address new business as well as take our inventory. One item that came up in new business generated a lot of discussion. It concerned changing our meeting time from 8pm to 7:00 pm. Now, I was all for that, for selfish reasons-I would get home earlier and get more sleep. So after all of the discussion pro and con was heard, a vote was taken. I voted for it.

The chairperson asked for a minority opinion from those who had opposed changing the time. From the back corner of the room, one of the group elders spoke up. He hadn't said a word during discussion. The questions he asked us pertain to Tradition Four. He asked if we had considered how many would be affected by the change. Had we consulted another AA group that meets eight blocks down the street how we would affect them? (we are a much bigger group) That possibly we would take away from their meeting? Had we consulted the church we meet in? Had we considered our trusted servants that have to arrive as much as an hour early to get the coffee going?

After all of those questions, it was asked if anyone that had voted for the time change had changed their minds and motion was made to reconsider. I ended up voting against the change. What I saw was a clear example of a group considering how its actions would affect others, including a neighboring group.I saw the importance of reaching a fully informed group conscience by making sure that all voices are heard and all pertinent information considered. And I saw how the miniority voice is the most important voice in the group.

Missybuns

thanks jim

I like these kinds of threads. Old thread ...but the principles are timeless.

step 4....taking an inventory has me learning to see my part which sets me up to take responsibility for it.

tradition 4.....having learned how to see my part I can learn to see the groups part in NA as a whole and how our group may effect other groups, and act responsibly.

The traditions may not have been written at the same time as the steps but they do reflect much the same principles.
My sponsor has me write on a step then on the same numbered tradition. Doing this has helped me to see the principles involved and also helped me with a better understanding of how to make the applications of the principles.

Peace,
Missy

Missybuns

also........

I can look at the only the steps......and only the traditions and see they stand on their own seperately. I can also correlate them and learn even more about them.

Gmoney

It is my belief and understanding that spiritual principles never conflict with one another and the same principles that can be found in the steps can be found in the traditions. One of the reasons I say that the steps are for my recovery and the traditions are for the group is because without practicing the principles of the steps in all my affairs (including service efforts), it is very unlikely that I'd adhere to the principles anywhere else. I don't believe that there was ever an intentional correlation between each step and the corresponding tradition...I mean, if I look hard enough I could probably find how a rock relates to a banana. LOL!! I like to remind myself that Step 12 tells us that in order to apply the principles in our service efforts we must first apply them to our personal recovery.

IMO, the example Jim offered shows how there can be a great difference between group conscience and group opinion (Trad. 2). Although a group has the authority to govern itself (Trad.4), we have to always consider the common welfare of our fellowship in our group decisions. (Trad. 1)