Attended Outside Area Mtg--no Traditions
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
Originally Posted by Sugah 
Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer (reindeer)
Had a very shiny nose (like a lightbulb!)....
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Had a very shiny nose (like a lightbulb!)....
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,486
yeah..i agree that's disrespectful. Some were doing it in my area up until about three years ago. And it is during the Traditions!! aaarrghhh! (slaps my forehead right on my pretend Traditions flag tattoo!)
One particular person started crying like a baby saying "waaaaaa!" after the part "gave birth to the Traditions"
This was so irritating. Thus began some of my first interest and understanding of the Traditions. I started asking people with double-digit recovery time about this behavior and learned why they weren't doing it. I was most informed "I feel it is disrespectful and you won't find me doing it."
I could see their point, so I modeled after those mentors.
One particular person started crying like a baby saying "waaaaaa!" after the part "gave birth to the Traditions"
This was so irritating. Thus began some of my first interest and understanding of the Traditions. I started asking people with double-digit recovery time about this behavior and learned why they weren't doing it. I was most informed "I feel it is disrespectful and you won't find me doing it."
I could see their point, so I modeled after those mentors.
Sugah!!!!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,486
I remember being at regional convention and seeing a shirt with "Boing Rip Splash" printed on the back...didn't see them for sale in the merchandise area but saw someone wearing one....yep some were actually making shirts like this and most likely selling them!
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 320
My spelling sux...so give me a break...
The reason this topic hits me is this...
We will survive this behavior...I mean NA will. I have seen this make full circle over the years. I will continue to sit silent while ANY member is speaking in a meeting...regardless if they are reading or sharing..they have the floor.
Greg P explained this to me... NA is practicle...and spritual. All things that are spritual are practicle. Meaning long after I am gone this program will continue. God will see to that. However I do have my part to the protection of the common welfare of NA . I express this responsabliltiy in my behavior by not participating in things that tear the unity apart inside NA. I can not live without NA and NA can not survive without the members practicing our spritual principles. Its hand in hand. If you honesty beleive that one addict can best help and understand another addict you understand the importance of NA unity. THAT is why I dont behave in ways that will tear us apart.
I have seen many changes in NA. I watched the "US vs THEM" fights , "Traditions WARS" and now the war of "THE NEW Solfter NA". Since I have seen and lived through them all I have a point of view that is NOT of the making of someone else. Sure I got clean from a book that says "fix, pill or drink" but that in NO way discounts the 6th addition nor will it discount the 10th to come....
The question is simple and practical in nature...."What are WE doing today to add to the unity of NA? and what are WE doing that tear the unity of NA apart? My job is to stay clean and carry the message of recovery to the still suffering addict. Please dont get it swisted in thinking that the suffering addict is always a newcomer cuz it is not always that way.. In fact against popular opion old timers suffer. Sometimes in their understanding and acceptance of the changes of NA. NA will change with the needs of the world. Tradition One is surrendering our one way track of thinking to accept the fact thqat the good of many is more important.
My attempt today is to make the new comer feel comfortable and make the old timer uncomfortable. So for you old timers out there....push your own recovery further and deeper into your understanding of the spirtual aspects of this fellowship. Its about love....reaching out to the newcomer in WHAT EVER condition they come to the door . Reach for them and pull them in the rooms. They have made the effort to get to the edge of the door way. It is up to us to reach for them and pull them in ....Set your stuff aside for a moment and allow the newcomer to figure out WHAT he is and if this is the way of life for him. Remember...thank GOD you were not held in judgement for mis identifing yourself when you got here...You kept coming back till you gained an understanding that you belonged. Dont jump the newcomer with your promotion over attraction junk. NA does not need a recruiter. Dont you think we have run enough people to other fellowships? Lets allow our spritual principles in action speak for themselves. I promise you if an addict feels welcomed, loved and accepted they will stay around. And if they dont they wont...
For some of you old timers.... it is our role to redirect other old timers that are carring out this behavior...
For the newcomer...keep coming back. you have entered a worldwide fellowship that have proven itself to millions to be the final place to recover. In the event you hear somethings in the rooms that you dont understand thats ok just keep coming back. IF your using,.... come back not using. We will walk with you till you can walk on your own.
I remain
Joe H
9/9/84
The reason this topic hits me is this...
We will survive this behavior...I mean NA will. I have seen this make full circle over the years. I will continue to sit silent while ANY member is speaking in a meeting...regardless if they are reading or sharing..they have the floor.
Greg P explained this to me... NA is practicle...and spritual. All things that are spritual are practicle. Meaning long after I am gone this program will continue. God will see to that. However I do have my part to the protection of the common welfare of NA . I express this responsabliltiy in my behavior by not participating in things that tear the unity apart inside NA. I can not live without NA and NA can not survive without the members practicing our spritual principles. Its hand in hand. If you honesty beleive that one addict can best help and understand another addict you understand the importance of NA unity. THAT is why I dont behave in ways that will tear us apart.
I have seen many changes in NA. I watched the "US vs THEM" fights , "Traditions WARS" and now the war of "THE NEW Solfter NA". Since I have seen and lived through them all I have a point of view that is NOT of the making of someone else. Sure I got clean from a book that says "fix, pill or drink" but that in NO way discounts the 6th addition nor will it discount the 10th to come....
The question is simple and practical in nature...."What are WE doing today to add to the unity of NA? and what are WE doing that tear the unity of NA apart? My job is to stay clean and carry the message of recovery to the still suffering addict. Please dont get it swisted in thinking that the suffering addict is always a newcomer cuz it is not always that way.. In fact against popular opion old timers suffer. Sometimes in their understanding and acceptance of the changes of NA. NA will change with the needs of the world. Tradition One is surrendering our one way track of thinking to accept the fact thqat the good of many is more important.
My attempt today is to make the new comer feel comfortable and make the old timer uncomfortable. So for you old timers out there....push your own recovery further and deeper into your understanding of the spirtual aspects of this fellowship. Its about love....reaching out to the newcomer in WHAT EVER condition they come to the door . Reach for them and pull them in the rooms. They have made the effort to get to the edge of the door way. It is up to us to reach for them and pull them in ....Set your stuff aside for a moment and allow the newcomer to figure out WHAT he is and if this is the way of life for him. Remember...thank GOD you were not held in judgement for mis identifing yourself when you got here...You kept coming back till you gained an understanding that you belonged. Dont jump the newcomer with your promotion over attraction junk. NA does not need a recruiter. Dont you think we have run enough people to other fellowships? Lets allow our spritual principles in action speak for themselves. I promise you if an addict feels welcomed, loved and accepted they will stay around. And if they dont they wont...
For some of you old timers.... it is our role to redirect other old timers that are carring out this behavior...
For the newcomer...keep coming back. you have entered a worldwide fellowship that have proven itself to millions to be the final place to recover. In the event you hear somethings in the rooms that you dont understand thats ok just keep coming back. IF your using,.... come back not using. We will walk with you till you can walk on your own.
I remain
Joe H
9/9/84
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
Good post Joe. Just a couple of things jumped out at me.
:wtf2
I dunno...but the statement above sounds like an anti-clarity statement plug. And, depending on a person's individual experience, the part I underlined, may not be true. It certainly wasn't in my case. I thank my HP that there were members who encouraged me to stay and helped me to see that there are no big "I's" or little "U's" in NA.
My attempt today is to make the new comer feel comfortable and make the old timer uncomfortable.
Set your stuff aside for a moment and allow the newcomer to figure out WHAT he is and if this is the way of life for him. Remember...thank GOD you were not held in judgement for mis identifing yourself when you got here...You kept coming back till you gained an understanding that you belonged.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 320
LOL I was hoping that would wake you up GMoney...
Kinda makes one feel uncomfortable.
I think old timers sit back too much and try to protect NA from changing from what it was when they got clean to what is going to be in the future. This current fight between old timers wanting a 3rd addition limited addition book printed is my point. Yea its a good book yet we must grow and change.
Soon it will be said " go tweeter your sponsor" LOL I am trying to keep up too but the fact is that NA is growing soooo fast we better get in and hang on for the ride.
Trust me I love clarity...you put me in a home depot long enough and I am gonna put on the orange vest. We just dont have to jump the newcomer on day one or two. He will figure it out that he sounds odd...I did.. and countless other did. I got clean here and I stay clean here. I am not affraid or intimadated by other fellowships growth. So IF a member of the other fellowship visits an NA meeting why run him back out the door with our syntax error warning sign on day one...He will come around.
I say again clarity is good and should be used. But like most of us we take it too far and beat newcomers over the head with it to the point they run from us.
Addicts love conflict so much we fabricate our own.
From the HOT Mississippi Delta..Yall have a good 4th
Kinda makes one feel uncomfortable.
I think old timers sit back too much and try to protect NA from changing from what it was when they got clean to what is going to be in the future. This current fight between old timers wanting a 3rd addition limited addition book printed is my point. Yea its a good book yet we must grow and change.
Soon it will be said " go tweeter your sponsor" LOL I am trying to keep up too but the fact is that NA is growing soooo fast we better get in and hang on for the ride.
Trust me I love clarity...you put me in a home depot long enough and I am gonna put on the orange vest. We just dont have to jump the newcomer on day one or two. He will figure it out that he sounds odd...I did.. and countless other did. I got clean here and I stay clean here. I am not affraid or intimadated by other fellowships growth. So IF a member of the other fellowship visits an NA meeting why run him back out the door with our syntax error warning sign on day one...He will come around.
I say again clarity is good and should be used. But like most of us we take it too far and beat newcomers over the head with it to the point they run from us.
Addicts love conflict so much we fabricate our own.
From the HOT Mississippi Delta..Yall have a good 4th
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
For me, coming in when I did, I'm grateful that NA has grown and matured into the way it is today. And I'm speaking from my own experience (within the past decade or so), not from the point of view of those who've been around twice as long (or more).
When I got clean, I was attending both AA and NA, and I witnessed some pretty rude, controlling and arrogant behavior by those who were there before me. I'm not saying that this way the rule of thumb, but it was fairly common. Yet, there were oldtimers who didn't prescribe to the "Shut up and listen...what the hell do you know?" type of sharing and caring. I never understood how such attitudes could be viewed as spiritual. I thank my HP that there were members who were compassionate, tolerant and patient. It was those same members who helped me to learn about "allowing others to be where they're at" and "trying to understand instead of being understood." I'm so grateful that this is the NA I'm a member of today, as opposed to the shotgun sharing, keep the newcomer in their place type of NA I once knew.
I totally agree that NA will survive the fads that come and go. The "rip, spalsh, etc.." crap will die a natural death just like some of the chanting that went on when I was new. What I find funny is that many of the things that I've found distasteful or disrespectful that occurs in the fellowship isn't started by the newer members. In fact, the newer members are just following the lead of those they are captivated by. "When in Rome..." as they say. Yet again, it was those same oldtimers that taught me if I saw no positive example to follow...I should be one. Even the literature tells me that the best way I can carry the message is by how I live - inside and outside of our meetings.
I'd be one of the first to say that I believe in NA unity, but my understanding of what NA unity is doesn't have to be the same as everyone else's. For me, there's a difference between unity and uniformity. Although we never did the rip, splash, bing stuff...I haven't witnessed how chanting brought about any type of disunity or a tearing apart of NA. As a result of being a regular here at SR, I've found that the practices and customs of NA vary from region to region, state to state, etc.. We are truly a varied bunch, yet addicts are getting clean, staying clean, relapsing, using and dying, just as they've always done.
Although I do agree that none of us should take on the position of forcing any member (new or old) into deciding whether they're an addict or not, I do not have a problem with an NA group informing those who attend their meeting that NA is a fellowship of addicts who suffer from the disease of addiction. It is truly a blessing that NA has become "softer" in regard to members badgering or "shotgun sharing" members into complying with their warped interpretations, and (at least, in my area) the days of the NA Nazi or NA police has long passed. Our public relations policy may be based on attraction rather than promotion, but, from what I've witnessed, NA has always been self-promoting. All one needs to do is open up the Basic Text and read a bit.
As I've stated many times, things change and times change. Today we've got text messaging, online sponsorship, and even recovery based internet forums like SR!!
I've found that resistance to change often tends to make my life unmanageable, and it was the oldtimers that taught me that acceptance doesn't mean I have to like the changes - just tolerate and deal with them. Newcomers run out the doors because they want to, not always because of the behaviors of those who've decided to stay. I think we often give the self-righteous too much credit. It was desperation that brought me to NA and it was desire that helped me to stay. I wanted a new way to live so badly that NO ONE could run me away (and some tried). I have no doubt that my experience has been shared by others, but we're still here.
IMO, those oldtimers who sit back and allow NA to evolve have a firm rooting in step one. I believe many have adopted the policy of voting with their feet. Yet, NA survives and florishes. Like you said, I can't survive without NA but NA can survive without me. Mind you, IMO, some things need protecting and should never be changed - but at the end of the day I have to ask myself, "Does the program still work?" Of course it does.
Amen!!
Happy 4th of July everyone!!
tflms
When I got clean, I was attending both AA and NA, and I witnessed some pretty rude, controlling and arrogant behavior by those who were there before me. I'm not saying that this way the rule of thumb, but it was fairly common. Yet, there were oldtimers who didn't prescribe to the "Shut up and listen...what the hell do you know?" type of sharing and caring. I never understood how such attitudes could be viewed as spiritual. I thank my HP that there were members who were compassionate, tolerant and patient. It was those same members who helped me to learn about "allowing others to be where they're at" and "trying to understand instead of being understood." I'm so grateful that this is the NA I'm a member of today, as opposed to the shotgun sharing, keep the newcomer in their place type of NA I once knew.
I totally agree that NA will survive the fads that come and go. The "rip, spalsh, etc.." crap will die a natural death just like some of the chanting that went on when I was new. What I find funny is that many of the things that I've found distasteful or disrespectful that occurs in the fellowship isn't started by the newer members. In fact, the newer members are just following the lead of those they are captivated by. "When in Rome..." as they say. Yet again, it was those same oldtimers that taught me if I saw no positive example to follow...I should be one. Even the literature tells me that the best way I can carry the message is by how I live - inside and outside of our meetings.
I'd be one of the first to say that I believe in NA unity, but my understanding of what NA unity is doesn't have to be the same as everyone else's. For me, there's a difference between unity and uniformity. Although we never did the rip, splash, bing stuff...I haven't witnessed how chanting brought about any type of disunity or a tearing apart of NA. As a result of being a regular here at SR, I've found that the practices and customs of NA vary from region to region, state to state, etc.. We are truly a varied bunch, yet addicts are getting clean, staying clean, relapsing, using and dying, just as they've always done.
Although I do agree that none of us should take on the position of forcing any member (new or old) into deciding whether they're an addict or not, I do not have a problem with an NA group informing those who attend their meeting that NA is a fellowship of addicts who suffer from the disease of addiction. It is truly a blessing that NA has become "softer" in regard to members badgering or "shotgun sharing" members into complying with their warped interpretations, and (at least, in my area) the days of the NA Nazi or NA police has long passed. Our public relations policy may be based on attraction rather than promotion, but, from what I've witnessed, NA has always been self-promoting. All one needs to do is open up the Basic Text and read a bit.
As I've stated many times, things change and times change. Today we've got text messaging, online sponsorship, and even recovery based internet forums like SR!!
I've found that resistance to change often tends to make my life unmanageable, and it was the oldtimers that taught me that acceptance doesn't mean I have to like the changes - just tolerate and deal with them. Newcomers run out the doors because they want to, not always because of the behaviors of those who've decided to stay. I think we often give the self-righteous too much credit. It was desperation that brought me to NA and it was desire that helped me to stay. I wanted a new way to live so badly that NO ONE could run me away (and some tried). I have no doubt that my experience has been shared by others, but we're still here.IMO, those oldtimers who sit back and allow NA to evolve have a firm rooting in step one. I believe many have adopted the policy of voting with their feet. Yet, NA survives and florishes. Like you said, I can't survive without NA but NA can survive without me. Mind you, IMO, some things need protecting and should never be changed - but at the end of the day I have to ask myself, "Does the program still work?" Of course it does.
...you put me in a home depot long enough and I am gonna put on the orange vest.
Happy 4th of July everyone!!
tflms
It is what it is!!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sobriety
Posts: 5,767
I've found that resistance to change often tends to make my life unmanageable, and it was the oldtimers that taught me that acceptance doesn't mean I have to like the changes - just tolerate and deal with them. Newcomers run out the doors because they want to, not always because of the behaviors of those who've decided to stay. I think we often give the self-righteous too much credit. It was desperation that brought me to NA and it was desire that helped me to stay. I wanted a new way to live so badly that NO ONE could run me away
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
Where would I be without you?
Originally Posted by huntsober
Good stuff G$. Thanx
I feel your passion. And if it wasn't for members like yourself, I'd be still using or dead (my eyes are watering up). I owe a debt of gratitude to my predecessors that I'll never be able to repay, but my 12th step tells me I must at least try. IMO, we are truly blessed to still have you around. G
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 320
The newcomer needs to hold the oldtimer accountable to what we say. The newcomer should walk up to the person that has the newest car (usually the oldtimer) and ask for a ride or while the others are discussing where to go eat after the meeting....walk up and say hey I am hungry I want to go with YOU.
I forget to explain to newcomers ...I went through divorce, being fired, death of a baby, and going to jail all clean. No matter what dont use.!! As long as I dont use I can work on the parts that cause the pain. I was three years clean before I understood this program has nothing to do with drugs. Its about my disease,
Its so safe to just share in meetings our knowledge or positive experiences. Saving face and not sharing the real parts of the tuff times in recovery harms the newcomers and kills the old timer.
Sorry to get off tipoc it was just on my head after a mgt last night. Watching a young person struggle...... hurts me, check on yall in a couple days. Have a good weekend!!
I forget to explain to newcomers ...I went through divorce, being fired, death of a baby, and going to jail all clean. No matter what dont use.!! As long as I dont use I can work on the parts that cause the pain. I was three years clean before I understood this program has nothing to do with drugs. Its about my disease,
Its so safe to just share in meetings our knowledge or positive experiences. Saving face and not sharing the real parts of the tuff times in recovery harms the newcomers and kills the old timer.
Sorry to get off tipoc it was just on my head after a mgt last night. Watching a young person struggle...... hurts me, check on yall in a couple days. Have a good weekend!!
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
I went through divorce, being fired, death of a baby, and going to jail all clean. No matter what dont use.!! As long as I dont use I can work on the parts that cause the pain. I was three years clean before I understood this program has nothing to do with drugs. Its about my disease
It is what it is!!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sobriety
Posts: 5,767
I was three years clean before I understood this program has nothing to do with drugs.
Certified NA Counselor
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Newport Beach Ca., US
Posts: 458
Originally Posted by huntsober
My attempt today is to make the new comer feel comfortable and make the old timer uncomfortable.
Similar to yours, but sometimes it's not always the old-timer that needs to get out of their comfort zone.
a
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