Alex1776

Having been to treatment and gone to meetings I have heard variations of this story 100s of times.

The doctors gave me pills causing my addiction and I had to start buying them on the street, then something like "I got pulled over and the cops found my stash" followed by a long expensive horror story describing there experience with the "justice" system.

More like the "injustice system" IMO !

A victimless crime is a term used to refer to actions that have been ruled illegal but do not directly violate or threaten the rights of any other individual.

"While Americans represent about 5 percent of the world's population, nearly one-quarter of the entire world's inmates have been incarcerated in the United States in recent years. Imprisonment of America's 2.3 million prisoners, costing $24,000 per inmate per year, and $5.1 billion in new prison construction, consumes $60.3 billion in budget expenditures."

United States incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its totally pathetic the way this country deals with addiction. It goes this most of the time,

1. Your a criminal for getting addicted to drugs.

2. Then the court system often destroys the addicted persons or family's finances getting rich in the process. Look at all the BMWs in the employee parking lot !

3. The addict is given a criminal record destroying future job opportunities.

4. The prison system rapes the taxpayer building jails and pays probation officers to catch the addict relapsing over the nightmare he/she is living to make more money for the court system before turning the person over to the prison system for more abuse.

5. The prison system then often "hardens" the person who emerges from that culture into gangs and that whole criminal scene.

5-A. "Now I can't get a good job, I'm going to sell drugs and do crimes..."


Sometimes I'm just embarrassed to be an American.


Its time to use that criminal "justice" money to get people treatment if they want it and stop destroying the lives of people with addiction problems.

ElegantlyWasted

I agree in general that more resources should be allocated to treatment/skills training etc. I also tend to look at this from a very libertarian/minarchist perspective. I think that subcontracting our Jails to private corporation was horribly conceived and poorly executed. There definitely is a huge and growing "Addiction" industry. This stuff does suck, but ultimately the individual problemed user/addict need to figure out their own way by focusing on his/her self. I'll willingly sign some petitions and or put in a call to my senators/rep regarding general policy reform, but again; Large Cultural issues, I believe, are best addressed through individual actions. If I had to choose any Country to have been born into any social/economic class I'd still choose the States; or Maybe Monaco (If I was assured a royal birth). The balancing act between ensuring individual freedom vs some necessary rule of law can be very tricky and varies according to individual preference and corporate/state interests which are often in conflict. Thanks for the post... Fun thought food. My big takeaway is that knowing this makes one a better informed decision maker.

"Having been to treatment and gone to meetings I have heard variations of this story 100s of times"

Seems typical of early recovery; a bunch of people avoiding focusing on what they personally need to do and obsessing about the big picture... Societal problem? Sure. Any real relevance to an individual in recovery? Nah.

How exactly are you defining "Victimless" crime? You give no example and then go on to cite general crime statistics. There has always been and always will be a revolving door of criminals regardless of specific addiction legal/social policy.

Just curious...
"Sometimes I'm just embarrassed to be an American."

Which Countries Legal system(s) do you view as preferable to the US model. As much as there is wrong with it, I can't think of another country where I would prefer to be wrongly charge with any crime in.

1Dayatatyme

Hello Elegantly Wasted,

How elegantly you put forth your opinion.

NYCDoglvr

It's important to take responsibility for your actions. It was your decision to take the drugs beyond the period indicated by the doctor. You could have sought treatment, gotten help but didn't. Dealing with the consequences is hell, I know. Have you done anything about your addiction?

Carlotta

I completely agree with you that drugs should be decriminalized and that it is a waste of taxpayers money. Now that being said is building a resentment going to help you? What are you planning to do about the situation?
About yourself: Are you ready to get into recovery?
About the justice system and the criminalization of addiction: Are you going to organize or join a movement which lobbies toward that goal?
Moaning about something and taking no positive action is akin to sitting on the pity pot which is never a good idea for an addict or like we say in AA"
Poor me, poor me, pour me a drink.

soberlicious

you got that right!!! Or even rightly charged...US prisoners have rights that are not afforded in other countries.

I've always thought "victimless crime" an oxymoron. Being addicted is not a crime, but behaviors that can sometimes go along with being addicted are criminal...DUI, stealing, domestic violence, child abuse/endangerment, neglect, and on it goes.

There are all kinds if free detoxes in every town in the US, but many choose not to take advantage of those, and rather continue their addiction.

Sometimes being legally forced to take some action is what provides a moment of clarity, just long enough for an addicted person to get a foothold and go from there. That was true in my case anyway...

Alex1776

This is not my story, I never got a drug charge.

But anyone who has ever hung around recovery knows one of the top 5 small talk conversations are war stories about how people got screwed by the injustice system.

I was reading all these webpages on how the war on drugs has turned the USA into the worlds largest prison state and was thinking about all the people that want treatment and cant get it but so so much money is wasted on what I read is called the "Profit Driven Prison Industrial Complex". Realy scary stuff.

soberlicious

There are free detoxes and rehabs in every US city. They may not be posh, but they are available. I know people who have appeared to be complete "lost causes" who have made a turn around.

Anyone is capable of ending their addiction. Any belief short of that is a cop out.

Certainly there are those whose brains have become damaged beyond repair, but you know there are even accounts of some of those folks recovering.

raku

Carlotta and Alex, and all others,

Thanks for your posts on this thread from Alex.

Carlotta, especially you, have described my sentiments. First taking care of personal
instability, then tackle the injustices of our criminal system, health care systems,
political systems....anything else is "he Beast", as it is called in AVRT.

Best wishes to you Alex !

raku

Threshold

As far as I know being an addict isn't a crime in my state. Neither it is an excuse to break the law.

If I wasn't an addict and broke the law I'd be arrested, tried, etc just the same.

As far as recovery small talks about drug related crimes. I was actually shocked with how much crime, for how long most of the people who told their war stories got away with. The amount of theft, domestic abuse, violence, armed robbery, breaking and entering, hit and runs, rape...need I go on, that people admitted they did without doing time was mind boggling.

Lyoness

Wow, interesting and unexpected responses. I didn't take the OP's post as excusing addiction but more as pointing out some serious flaws in our justice system. There are a lot of people in jail solely for possession and to me that is just plain wrong. It is a waste of humanity, of money and it does indeed feed into the mindset that all addicts are criminals.

Yes, some addicts commit crimes due to their addictions. But we really need to separate what those are. Being a rapist, pedophile or committer of domestic violence absolutely cannot be blamed on drug use/abuse/addiction. These are separate crimes that the individual is always responsible for. My adoptive father was an alcoholic and a child rapist, being an alcoholic did not turn him into a pedophile although he surely used to cope with his crimes and used before he committed those crimes against me and my sister. So those crimes should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

But addiction needs treatment not jail time. And as far as how "fair" our system is, well until you've been on the unfair end of it you don't know how bad it can really be. Think of driving while black. I have experienced this side of it and nearly committed suicide as a result of what happened. And it was not addiction related, it was over a 1 inch scratch on a car door in a parking lot.

I appreciate reading everyone's opinions, I guess I I see things from many, many sides. (Always have, made true/false tests in school a nightmare!)

soberlicious

Well, I can tell you that I spit on, scratch, and hit my ex when I was addicted to alcohol. Now that I don't drink I never spit on, scratch, or hit anyone. My actions were due to my addiction, but I was responsible for my addiction, so yeah it's on me.

If I drive drunk should I go to treatment or jail? If I leave my children alone for days to use\drink should I go to treatment or jail? If I sell drugs out of my home...jail? Treatment?

Who would draw the line and make the decision? If we say that the addicted shouldn't get jail time then pieces of sh*t pedophiles and rapists like your adoptive father will use the "I'm-an-addict-get-out-of-jail-and-go-to-treatment-instead" card. How to separate it out, that's the question.

I agree that our system is greatly flawed and I'm sorry for whatever injustice happened to you lyoness. No one in the US should have to endure that. I was just saying that compared to other countries, our system certainly has more checks and balances, even if it doesn't always work perfectly.

Michael66

In the UK deaths on the road were significantly reduced by requiring all people, by law, to wear a seat belt. The same happened when motorcyclists were required, by law, to wear crash helmets.

Sometimes the law protects people from their own recklessness. It may not always work, and it may not alway seem fair, but such laws are frequently a pragmatic way to save lives. I can't imagine decriminalizing possession of illegal drugs will help overall, though I do see the libertarian poin of view.

Michael66

P.S. I think we should also remember that people (often in very poor countries) can frequently be harmed by involvement, direct or indirect, in the drug trade. Supporting that trade gives the lie to belief that buying and possessing illegal drugs is a victimless crime. Do we really want to support the organized crime behind the drug trade?

Threshold

I do not know anyone who has been jailed for being an addict

Being an addict is not a crime.

Being jailed for possession is being jailed for the crime of possession of an illegal/controlled substance, whether or not one thinks the law is reasonable or fair, that is NOT the same as being jailed for being an addict.

The system isn't perfect and much injustice occurs...in both directions.

Let's keep working towards recovery for addicts, and justice for all.

socallednormal

If drugs were decriminalized, organized crime would no be supported by the drug trade, and fewer people would be harmed. It would, without a doubt, help overall by causing a reduction in harm to people. Bayer used to make aspirin and heroin. Even though aspirin is more popular, heroin became illegal and now supports organized crime.

I was using prescription drugs, so I had nothing to personally gain one way or the other if underground opiates become legal. However, even to me it's obvious that the drug war hands an industry right over to gangsters and terrorists causing massive despair and destruction.

Alex1776

The gangsters and terrorists cause only half the massive despair and destruction, the other half is caused by the legal system and its actions against the non violent addict and the effects of this on his/her family.


Anyway,

Ten years ago, Portugal decriminalized all drugs. One decade after this unprecedented experiment, drug abuse is down by half.

Ten Years After Decriminalization, Drug Abuse Down by Half in Portugal - Forbes

Threshold

Are you suggesting none of the despair and destruction is the result of the drug users choices?

I am a recovering addict. I know in MY experience the majority of the despair and destruction in my life was the result of my own choices and behavior. Recovery was ALWAYS available, but I chose to not make use of it for a very very long time.

soberlicious

I agree with threshold...whether they are legal or not there will always be addiction. Drugs and addiction eat your soul. That has nothing to do with the legal system.

Alex1776

Should we goto the hospital and start prosecuting people who got sick from a sedentary lifestyle and tons of fast food ?

They knew about nutrition and exercise but chose to not make use of it for a very very long time.