Immaturity? Or Addiction? Or just so used to the enabling?
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Immaturity? Or Addiction? Or just so used to the enabling?
We had a fight the other night about him lying where he was, and he said he felt suffocated and called me 'mom' because I am always nagging him. So being his wife, I dont want to like a 'mom' to him. That comment made me rethink things and get some perspective. I dont know why, because he's called me that before, but it did.
After being able to detach a bit and recognize MY patterns to his addiction that were coming back full force (the detective work) I decided to not do anything 'mom' like or enabling like. So I didn't do his laundry this week. We have four kids so I am already doing a ton of laundry, and since he is a grown ass man, I think he can handle his own laundry. But he woke up and realized he had nothing to wear. And began yelling at ME because I did not do his laundry for work and now he had nothing to wear. But I did not engage in this fight nor yell back but did tell him he was a 33 year old man who can do his own laundry. He replied with he never has time and I told him to make time. Our wedding anniversary is this weekend and so he told me to cancel our plans because we aren't going. I just left for work and didn't say anything.
But I feel bad because I did not inform him I was not doing his laundry anymore. He expected it of course because I have for so long. So I guess I should have let him know that....but then again, cant he check for himself? I mean hes like a child in that he gets up 20 minutes before he has to leave for work so he could get up sooner and check out his own laundry situation. Plus I am busy getting up 4 kids, so I stopped waking him up a long time ago. So when you detach and stop your enabling habits, do you feel the need to let the addict know this?
After being able to detach a bit and recognize MY patterns to his addiction that were coming back full force (the detective work) I decided to not do anything 'mom' like or enabling like. So I didn't do his laundry this week. We have four kids so I am already doing a ton of laundry, and since he is a grown ass man, I think he can handle his own laundry. But he woke up and realized he had nothing to wear. And began yelling at ME because I did not do his laundry for work and now he had nothing to wear. But I did not engage in this fight nor yell back but did tell him he was a 33 year old man who can do his own laundry. He replied with he never has time and I told him to make time. Our wedding anniversary is this weekend and so he told me to cancel our plans because we aren't going. I just left for work and didn't say anything.
But I feel bad because I did not inform him I was not doing his laundry anymore. He expected it of course because I have for so long. So I guess I should have let him know that....but then again, cant he check for himself? I mean hes like a child in that he gets up 20 minutes before he has to leave for work so he could get up sooner and check out his own laundry situation. Plus I am busy getting up 4 kids, so I stopped waking him up a long time ago. So when you detach and stop your enabling habits, do you feel the need to let the addict know this?
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Well, you asked, so I'll tell you...
I think it was a teensy bit mean to not do his laundry without telling him. He obviously had it coming, in way, calling you mom and all. So I can totally see why you said to yourself, "Hmmm... he doesn't want me to be his mother, I won't be!" But I do think you should have told him first. Just my opinion!
Anyway, it sounds like you've been through hell and it's getting the best of you, as it does all of us. We do things out of anger to try to make them see our side, but that rarely works. Nor does it work when we do things out of love or sadness or desperation... oh, it's awful being married to an addict. The best thing we can do is give up on trying to get through to them and decide what's best for us.
I think it's time you set some boundaries, and laundry may be a good one. I wish I'd set that boundary. My ex never once did laundry in our 7 years together. Even when we'd separate (one time for 3 months!) he'd just come back with a huge bag of it for me to take care of. He's very tall and a bit overweight, so his clothes make the loads seem that much more daunting. When I think of the reasons I'm glad he's gone, I have to say laundry is near the top of the list!
Well, there I go again, on about myself. Sorry to hear what you're going through and hope you can find what works for you.
I think it was a teensy bit mean to not do his laundry without telling him. He obviously had it coming, in way, calling you mom and all. So I can totally see why you said to yourself, "Hmmm... he doesn't want me to be his mother, I won't be!" But I do think you should have told him first. Just my opinion!
Anyway, it sounds like you've been through hell and it's getting the best of you, as it does all of us. We do things out of anger to try to make them see our side, but that rarely works. Nor does it work when we do things out of love or sadness or desperation... oh, it's awful being married to an addict. The best thing we can do is give up on trying to get through to them and decide what's best for us.
I think it's time you set some boundaries, and laundry may be a good one. I wish I'd set that boundary. My ex never once did laundry in our 7 years together. Even when we'd separate (one time for 3 months!) he'd just come back with a huge bag of it for me to take care of. He's very tall and a bit overweight, so his clothes make the loads seem that much more daunting. When I think of the reasons I'm glad he's gone, I have to say laundry is near the top of the list!
Well, there I go again, on about myself. Sorry to hear what you're going through and hope you can find what works for you.
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Well, I would. I would try to do it in a reasonable fashion, like, "it will help the household (Never you. The household) run more smoothly by you washing your work clothes. Starting today (after work) Thanks a bunch! " That way, you are calmly, reasonably making him aware that this is on him and establishing when this new pattern will begin. This is a normal, reasonable request. Note the emphasis on reasonable? Good luck.
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With most addiction related things, I would check my motives and take the use of drugs/alcohol out of it.
And ask myself:
Am I doing this to punish him or teach him a lesson, or is it because I am really overwhelmed with the amount of laundry I am already doing for 4 kids plus my own?
Does he have a separate hamper for his dirty laundry or will you have to take the time to sort his out from all the rest?
Families get into routines, I do this chore- you do that one - we do this one together. And, while it's perfectly fine to change things up...a little heads up would be appropriate. I have traditionally paid the bills. If I got tired of doing it, it would not only be wise but appreciated if I stated I was no longer going to do it.
And ask myself:
Am I doing this to punish him or teach him a lesson, or is it because I am really overwhelmed with the amount of laundry I am already doing for 4 kids plus my own?
Does he have a separate hamper for his dirty laundry or will you have to take the time to sort his out from all the rest?
Families get into routines, I do this chore- you do that one - we do this one together. And, while it's perfectly fine to change things up...a little heads up would be appropriate. I have traditionally paid the bills. If I got tired of doing it, it would not only be wise but appreciated if I stated I was no longer going to do it.
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Thank you all. Thank god for this site and your input. I DO want and encourage honest responses. I dont want to hear regurgitated stuff or 'safe' responses, if so I would ask my mom or MIL. Plus, your objective while they are too involved and cannot see things from the outside-just as I cannot.
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And I can see where I am attempting to set a boundary without any communication, which has been the biggest problem in our relationship, way before drugs were involved, was our ability to communicate to each other. How we got this far is beyond me. You are right, though, I am so overwhelmed by all the housework that he never does or helps with that I guess I have given up on asking anymore. At one point, when he was in 'recovery' mode, I did not want him to worry about anything else except taking care of himself and healing. So sometimes in my enabling way I think the less stress on him, then he wont be tempted to use or at least could not use "im so stressed' as an excuse to use. So I take the burden on ALL household tasks and then when I get overwhelmed I lash out at him for not helping. Again, my problem to change, not his. So your questions are really hitting the nail on the head. And you are also right about the bills...of course I have done them for years because with his addiction, he cannot be responsible for any of our money or we would be living on the streets. One puzzling aspect to his current usage is that I control the money so tightly, I am quite baffled as to how he is supplying his habit. However, I am not digging, I am not researching, I am not asking his friends...I am though waiting for the ball to drop and him get in trouble for whatever illegal activity I suspect he is doing to keep up his supply. But time will tell on that.
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Oh and to answer the other questions, he DOES have his own hamper and he does put his laundry in it sometimes. Mostly he leaves it in the bathroom, then I put it in his hamper. Everyone in our family has their own hamper, and I alternate who's laundry I do depending on who needs what.
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[QUOTE=Thelyoness83;6135125]. How we got this far is beyond me. You are right, though, I am so overwhelmed by all the housework that he never does or helps with that I guess I have given up on asking anymore.{QUOTE]
Bingo, sounds like there it is. Sounds like the laundry broke the camels back so to speak. I guess it would have been nice to tell him, but if he has a hamper does seem like he might notice that it was filling up.
That being said, I think you have to decide like cynical one said about your motives. I have made lots of silent boundaries only to wrestle with them later. I now try to take the addiction out of the picture. Like when we were first married, I would never have had to remind my H to take a shower, or clean out the cat litter, or eat. Mine to tells me I nag and go on to much, so instead I try to do my best not to and in the process a lot of things go undone.
I just this weekend cut our grass with a push mower and it was out of control. I did not nag him about it, he kept saying he would do it but never did so before we lost our dogs in the yard lol I cut it. I didn't gripe about it or get snarky, I simply went and cut it. I believe that was enough because I could tell he felt terrible once I was done and made dinner and cleaned the house. But still, I had to check my self, and say it needs to be done and I am not gong to nag. It stinks to have to work 60 hours a week and come home and mow overly tall grass, but this is my life for now. So I do it. And each day that passes it makes me more solid in knowing for sure that our marriage is over. I plan on filing for divorce and each day I get a few more things to add to my list of reasons why.
Bingo, sounds like there it is. Sounds like the laundry broke the camels back so to speak. I guess it would have been nice to tell him, but if he has a hamper does seem like he might notice that it was filling up.
That being said, I think you have to decide like cynical one said about your motives. I have made lots of silent boundaries only to wrestle with them later. I now try to take the addiction out of the picture. Like when we were first married, I would never have had to remind my H to take a shower, or clean out the cat litter, or eat. Mine to tells me I nag and go on to much, so instead I try to do my best not to and in the process a lot of things go undone.
I just this weekend cut our grass with a push mower and it was out of control. I did not nag him about it, he kept saying he would do it but never did so before we lost our dogs in the yard lol I cut it. I didn't gripe about it or get snarky, I simply went and cut it. I believe that was enough because I could tell he felt terrible once I was done and made dinner and cleaned the house. But still, I had to check my self, and say it needs to be done and I am not gong to nag. It stinks to have to work 60 hours a week and come home and mow overly tall grass, but this is my life for now. So I do it. And each day that passes it makes me more solid in knowing for sure that our marriage is over. I plan on filing for divorce and each day I get a few more things to add to my list of reasons why.
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I know. My AB was supposed to do the yard work at my mother's. Of course, he got to it in his own time, usually when the grass was out of control. He just didn't get that my mother would get stressed about how it looked and what the neighbors would think. We finally took it off the table and got a service to do it. For her, not for him. But...in true alcoholic crazy fashion, my brother was mad that we had "taken it away" from him. He feels strongly that certain tasks at my mom's house are his to do, and he resents any interference. Even though he doesn't do them. I simply shake my head at his craziness. Peace.
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Originally Posted by Maudcat 
I know. My AB was supposed to do the yard work at my mother's. Of course, he got to it in his own time, usually when the grass was out of control. He just didn't get that my mother would get stressed about how it looked and what the neighbors would think. We finally took it off the table and got a service to do it. For her, not for him. But...in true alcoholic crazy fashion, my brother was mad that we had "taken it away" from him. He feels strongly that certain tasks at my mom's house are his to do, and he resents any interference. Even though he doesn't do them. I simply shake my head at his craziness. Peace.
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Lol. Relapse before the last one - this is how I knew he was drinking again - he went off on my for finally mowing the yard. How dare I...
OP - the role of a "tough nagging mother" is very tiring. I don't think it's mean (the laundry thing) at all. He is being a petulant child for cancelling anniversary plans - but it sounds like it's not that big of a loss for you anyway.
OP - the role of a "tough nagging mother" is very tiring. I don't think it's mean (the laundry thing) at all. He is being a petulant child for cancelling anniversary plans - but it sounds like it's not that big of a loss for you anyway.
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Yea I did cancel our reservations. I only want to go to get out of town, to get a break from the kids, not because I wanted to go with him in particular. How sad. I used to get over the anger and hurt and force myself to do things with him in an attempt I suppose to get back to normal and help our relationship...I dont know if that makes sense. But I see that I am the only one who does anything for our relationship. He is so indifferent I dont know if he even notices how bad things are until I 'nag' or fight with him about something. He doesn't notice my feelings or anything. He just notices if I am 'looking at him mean' or have an attitude, then might ask why. Even then he doesn't get it, and I dont think he wants to or cares to try anymore. He said he didn't want to go because I was mad at him (for lying) and I said I didn't want to go because of the anger....so I used to do what I felt was 'giving in', just sucking up the anger so we could 'move forward' and not be the stubborn one. Anyway I asked him why he didn't try to make amends or talk about why I was made at him...he said he didn't know, maybe he just didn't feel like it?!?!? Geez reading this reply makes me realize how ridiculous and pathetic this all is. Our relationship I mean
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Sorry to say, alcoholics and substance addicts are the most self-involved people on the planet. They see everything through the lens of " what does this have to do with me?" Or "How does this affect me?" There is really no getting through unless and until they stop using/drinking. Even then, who knows? You sound super aware of the things in your life that aren't making you happy. Build on that. Stay with this forum for the wisdom, maybe find an al-anon meeting? It really can help.
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Originally Posted by Maudcat
Sorry to say, alcoholics and substance addicts are the most self-involved people on the planet. They see everything through the lens of " what does this have to do with me?" Or "How does this affect me?"
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So when you detach and stop your enabling habits, do you feel the need to let the addict know this?
My case is not exactly a 1-to-1 comparison with yours. I wasn't married to her, and she was also a Borderline personality. But what happened with me was I got into Al Anon and started listening to what mothers had gone through with their addicted children.
And I thought to myself: these women went above and beyond for their kids, and it made no difference. Addicts do what they do, and we can't change it. So I might as well save my sanity.
I went back into my relationship with my AXGF with a different mindset. I wasn't going to react to her histrionics, or her cognitive flatulence. She whatever she did, I played it down the middle. And after a little more than a month of this, she dumped me for someone in the Fellowship.
And the rest, as they say, is history.
We're not marriage counselors here. We really can't tell you explicitly what to do. But what we can tell you is what we know, what we've experienced...and if you look at the aggregate sum of what you see here at FFSA, you see that all of our stories track more-or-less the same. At some point, we've all arrived at the realization that I arrived at: the addict is going to do whatever they're going to do, and we can't change it
The burden is on you to decide what you want to do about it.
Keep us posted.
Last edited by greeteachday; 09-16-2016 at 08:20 PM. Reason: language
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The attitude of partners about doing boring household jobs is something I feel strongly about. It's a vicious circle of both knowing what's fair, one partner not doing their bit, feeling guilty and defensive; the other partner reminds them, but that's 'nagging', if the job gets done now it's 'giving in'. The partner stuck with the work can't win and they get angry instead.
I saw this with my son, who is a hard worker in employment but wasn't good at the chores. As he matured and began to pull his weight at home he became much happier because he'd taken back some of the initiative in the relationship. Now he takes pride in their partnership and his wife loves him more than ever.
I saw this with my son, who is a hard worker in employment but wasn't good at the chores. As he matured and began to pull his weight at home he became much happier because he'd taken back some of the initiative in the relationship. Now he takes pride in their partnership and his wife loves him more than ever.
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I went back into my relationship with my AXGF with a different mindset. I wasn't going to react to her histrionics, or her cognitive flatulence. She whatever she did, I played it down the middle. And after a little more than a month of this, she dumped me for someone in the Fellowship.
What do you, played it down the middle? Just wondering. I think I'm doing that.
We're not marriage counselors here. We really can't tell you explicitly what to do. But what we can tell you is what we know, what we've experienced...
Thank you. I get that. And hearing others experience is so helpful in feeling not alone. When my sister died from suicide, I did what every site and person suggests: go to counseling, get some help. But what I quickly found was that NONE of those professionals could help me. Of course dealing with the grief and healing were mine alone and really none of their strategies worked. What helped me absolutely the most was attending a local support group of family members whose loved one had died from suicide. Their stories, their thoughts and feelings, their support was more helpful to me than anything else and so I suppose that's why I turn here.
So today the kids are still going to his mom as planned because she still wants them and the kids were looking forward to it. He keeps making comments and remarks trying to get me to argue back with him and I'm not. I think that's what you were meaning by down the middle. I'm not engaging in it. So we'll see how the rest if the day is when it's just us too. I have plans to clean out the basement while the kids are gone. I'm sure he'll react negatively and continue to try to get me to argue about why we aren't going. We had a convo about it Thursday night, about the whole laundry situation and canceling the plans. We seemed to both agree about the circumstances. But I think even though he knew I had canceled the reservations, he thought I would give in and we would still go somewhere, and he's realizing that's not what's happening and he's been rude and short to me.
What do you, played it down the middle? Just wondering. I think I'm doing that.
We're not marriage counselors here. We really can't tell you explicitly what to do. But what we can tell you is what we know, what we've experienced...
Thank you. I get that. And hearing others experience is so helpful in feeling not alone. When my sister died from suicide, I did what every site and person suggests: go to counseling, get some help. But what I quickly found was that NONE of those professionals could help me. Of course dealing with the grief and healing were mine alone and really none of their strategies worked. What helped me absolutely the most was attending a local support group of family members whose loved one had died from suicide. Their stories, their thoughts and feelings, their support was more helpful to me than anything else and so I suppose that's why I turn here.
So today the kids are still going to his mom as planned because she still wants them and the kids were looking forward to it. He keeps making comments and remarks trying to get me to argue back with him and I'm not. I think that's what you were meaning by down the middle. I'm not engaging in it. So we'll see how the rest if the day is when it's just us too. I have plans to clean out the basement while the kids are gone. I'm sure he'll react negatively and continue to try to get me to argue about why we aren't going. We had a convo about it Thursday night, about the whole laundry situation and canceling the plans. We seemed to both agree about the circumstances. But I think even though he knew I had canceled the reservations, he thought I would give in and we would still go somewhere, and he's realizing that's not what's happening and he's been rude and short to me.
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Thelyoness.....the thing that caught my eye was when you said....that you two had problems communicating even before the addiction problems started.....
There is a reason that the most frequent word that co m es out of a marriage counselors mouths is "co mmunication...communication...communication....
Even the most ideal marriage...it is a constant task of co mmunicating....
He doesn't seem to really care about your feelings or your thoughts.....it sounds like you are in the role of household help. Mother, maid, wage earner (?), personal care attendant...not to mention the horizontal tango.....
Actually, it seems like you have more work on your h ands than a single mother...
If I might ask....if he is the primary breadwinner...do you feel trapped by that? I am asking because that can be a BIG reason that some mothers feel trapped. I just don't know your particular situation , in that regard.....
There is a reason that the most frequent word that co m es out of a marriage counselors mouths is "co mmunication...communication...communication....
Even the most ideal marriage...it is a constant task of co mmunicating....
He doesn't seem to really care about your feelings or your thoughts.....it sounds like you are in the role of household help. Mother, maid, wage earner (?), personal care attendant...not to mention the horizontal tango.....
Actually, it seems like you have more work on your h ands than a single mother...
If I might ask....if he is the primary breadwinner...do you feel trapped by that? I am asking because that can be a BIG reason that some mothers feel trapped. I just don't know your particular situation , in that regard.....
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