Seneca7

I am new to this community, but I could really use some advice. I've been having some "Aha" moments and I'm a little overwhelmed by all the red flags I've been excusing, both from myself and my fiance.

I've been with my fiance for over a year, and in that time he has gone from being someone who drinks a little too much and jokes about alcoholism, to someone who actually drinks in the morning almost everyday, admits that he can't quit, and doesn't seem to care. He is self-employed, and it doesn't seem to have a significant effect on his work. He doesn't drive after drinking. Also, he is not physically or emotionally abusive. Since he is currently the breadwinner, I don't know how much I can complain about the spending, either.

But the more I research "high functioning alcoholics," the more I see how few exceptions there are to the rule that alcoholism is degenerative, and that alcoholics will ALWAYS put you second, if they don't outright turn on you.

What complicates our situation is that I'm hardly the most functional person either. I drink to excess sometimes, I smoke cigarettes, and I've been pretty enabling, if not full-blown codependent. I'm also on disability for some psychiatric problems I'm just now starting to resolve, so it'd be easy for him to turn this around on me.

My question is, how do I go from being 100% loyal and supportive to the bitter end with him, as well as being an enabler and less than a sober saint myself, to basically telling him I don't want to marry an "alcoholic?" How do I do this without being a hypocrite, since it's more or less my fault for getting myself into this in the first place? Also, what do I do if he tries to steer the conversation around to my substance issues and imperfections?

jjj111

Sounds like you've been getting honest with yourself about the way that alcohol is impacting both your own life and your fiance's. The way I see it, two wrongs don't make a right. In other words, the fact that you have your own problem with drinking does not make his drinking problem OK. Maybe it would make sense for you to seek recovery for yourself, perhaps by attending an AA meeting, as well as figuring out how to set healthy boundaries with him, whatever those might be, with the help of a therapist, or Al-anon meetings, or both? That would certainly set you on a path toward a happier, more peaceful future!

Seneca7

Thanks, jjj111,

My issue is mainly with the cigarettes. I drink moderately 90% of the time now, although I'm sure he could bring up a past incident or two to make me feel bad. I'm pretty sure AA would be a terrible idea for me, I'd rather do the 30-day abstinence thing than MM suggests, and then consider something more stringent if I fail. I've been looking into Al-Anon, too.

I think the main reason I have for getting drunk is a weird sort of bonding ritual, so I don't end up resenting him. Part of what snapped me out of it was realizing how insidiously I lower my standards to accommodate my surroundings.

Also, I meant to post this in the FF-alcoholics forum, not the FF-substance abusers forum. Oops.

Vale

No worries. But it is a trap to "de-rate" yourself to make others feel
better. Before too long you start to BECOME the derated person you
were feigning.
Plus, it really IS an insult to others because unless they are truly
unconscious......they know the score. If you are an impeccable wordsmith
with smooth delivery and flawless syntax....dont purteNd 2b a dumazz
two mak otthers fill betr! 'cuz all it wil do iz mak them rezent u mor.

(never disrespect yourself to "fit in"!)

Seneca7

It's not necessarily to make others feel better. I think it's a way of dealing with cognitive dissonance rather than fixing the root of the problem.

Vale

>>>>>>how do I go from being 100% loyal
and supportive to the bitter end with him,>>>>>

I get this part, because I felt that way,too.
What snapped it for me was her bringing up how
her (soon to be ex-) husband was not standing by
his marriage vows to "take care of me always".....
this whilst she was living with a hard time career
felon/ fellow addict & robbing her family (even
her kids!).....blind.

If he HAD "stood by her" I wouldn't have considered
him loyal-----chump would be more like it.

Vale

I understand perfectly. This is a very difficult needle to
thread and the major reason we all are here.

Seneca7

I feel like I need a script if I'm going to confront him. I had concerns early on, but he talked me out of them somehow. From his perspective, this is all probably coming out of left field.

jjj111

Sorry if I made assumptions about your drinking. I was going by what you said in your post, that you sometimes drink to excess and have substance abuse issues that your fiance might bring up. FWIW, I don't think AA has ever been terrible for anyone. I recently began attending AA meetings myself because I am pregnant and want to feel confident that as a parent I won't ever slip into drinking like my parents did. Like you, I didn't feel like my drinking was at a devastatingly bad place. I just don't ever want it to get there and thought it was better to commit to sobriety. People at meetings have been incredibly kind and helpful. So, just to say that the worst that would happen is you would decide it was a waste of an hour and you don't want to continue. In any case, I do hope you find a way to figure out your boundaries with your fiance. If being around him makes it harder for you to choose not to drink to excess, that is certainly not a good thing.

Vale

You hit the nail on the head "somehow he talked me out of my concerns".

Through great difficulty and bitter tears I learned that what they SAY means
nothing.Talking is easy, but words are highly inflated currency.That talk is
cheap is a tenet without exception.

Did you know I can run a mile in under 4 minutes? I'm a VERY impressive
runner for an amateur.

Except for one thing. It's BS. We are primed to trust, primed to believe.
It is frustrating to hear things like "Why would he/she lie?".

Actually, for a billion reasons, from love to money.Talking is a hell of a lot
easier than performing! I actually have to push my tired old a** to pull off my
daily plodding 4 miles in 40 minutes! But the 4 minute mile is a lot more
impressive,no?

The sad truth I have learned is that no "confrontation" would make any
difference at all.

The real deal is........"continue to believe in my BS, or I will dump you for
someone that will".

There is not, nor will there EVER be, a shortage of broken souls to take him
in.It is your choice whether to join that club or say "no thanks".

Seneca7

It's a fair assumption. For me, binge drinking has always been more of a "Ah, what the heck" sort of thing. It's something I do to make a fun time more fun, not to make a bad time better. But now there's more of a darkness to it.

I don't think giving up alcohol will be too difficult, but I'm not looking forward to more dawning realizations. That's the scary kind of sobriety.

On a side note, I keep starting to type "society" instead of sobriety, and it comes out "socriety." Any Freudian psychologists in the house? (Per SoberRecovery.com Forums Violation #10, this is a joke).

Seneca7

Well, the problem is that I'm currently the Vice President of that club, and I have been for the past year. Since I have been enabling him unknowingly, I think he deserves a sit-down talk and not just an out-of-the-blue break-up. At least I deserve that, for my own sanity and closure.

I just don't know how to do that. I'm going to do it whether I know how to or not, but I'm trying to learn what I can to make it as smooth as possible.

zoso77

Welcome to the Board. I'm grateful that you found us, and thankful that you and Vale have been exchanging posts (Vale's great).

Now it's my turn:

There are a lot of themes in your original post. Speaking as an outsider that wants the best for you, my hope is given your psychiatric issues, you minimize your alcohol consumption. You don't need to be told this, I'm sure, but it's not good for you. Especially if you're on medication. You don't need the complications of your meds mixing with alcohol, as that can easily upset the balance of your moods.

With that out of the way...if you do not wish to marry someone who you believe to be a highly functional alcoholic, then don't. But be aware that if you end things, it will be ugly. If he has a genuine problem with alcohol, my guess is in the event you end things, he will deflect and attempt to put the focus on you. And if he does, that's OK. The best way to disarm someone going for the jugular is to agree with them. It sounds to me that given where you are right now, you need to get your act together. And if that's the case, that's your priority. You don't have the bandwidth to support him, let alone watch him slowly self destruct. You detach, and you do what you need to do to take care of you. You don't need, his, or anyone's, permission to do that.

My hope is that you stay with us as long as you have need. Read as many posts as you can, and really pay attention to the stories of others and the lessons they've learned along the way.

Again, Welcome to the Board.

Vale

============================================
So who is this "Froid"? ...........passenger?



Socriety is actually a valid word, describing a society of people who have
decided to rule their lives according to the socratic method........and yeah,
like my 4 minute mile.....I made that up, too!

I don't think the SR rules cover obvious 'quacks' like me! If medical
advice is taken from a person wearing a clown suit and wearing a nametag
that says "Dr. Quack".........it is probably not going too far out on a limb
to say that medical/psychological advice dispensed therefrom should
possibly be regarded with some modicum of skepticism.

I tell my kids.....if you can spot BS effectively, you have 90%
of life beat.

(When they get a little older, I will tell them the truth......closer
to ninety nine percent!)

Vale.......an expert on all things, including Maslow's hierarchy of rats.

Hawkeye13

From a practical point of view, what do you need to do for yourself right now to prepare
for a less-than-optimal outcome when you bring up this issue with him?

If you need to move, where will you go, and what are your employment options if he is currently the breadwinner?

It sounds like you are on the cusp of recovery as well, so perhaps thinking out some future options would give you more "power" in the situation if the discussion does get ugly, and more about your own issues.

What needs cleaning on your side of the street, as it were, so that you can move forward whatever the outcome of your discussion?

I believe you should honor your gut, and if the red flags are flying, you are wise to pay attention.


[But don't pay too much attention to that Vale guy as he's a whack-job of the highest proportion--
Thinks that ivy league edumacation buys him carte blanche at the SR buffet. . . but we love him anyway]

Seneca7

Given my inclinations towards codependency, this shouldn't be too difficult. And whatever substance issues I may have are hardly reasons for us to stay together. If your boyfriend cheats on you, and you confess that you also cheated on him, it should be more of a wake-up call than a bonding moment.

It is my priority (no promises with the cigarettes, though), but this is all hitting me at once and it's pretty shocking to see what I've stooped to in accomodating him, way more shocking than the handful of times my own drinking was a problem. It wasn't until I realized how much easier it is to quit drinking than to quit enabling that I realized how critical this situation is. How am I more addicted to someone else drinking than I am to drinking myself?

There are some pretty shameless enabling behaviors I could stop doing (i.e., picking up alcohol that I have no intention of drinking myself), and this might be a "Hint, hint!" that could ease us into a more serious discussion. Honestly, though, it's been a rough enough ride already that a clean break might be better. I just don't want to leave with NO explanation.

Seneca7

I still have disability money, so if I left soon enough, I'd be fine, even if I had to stay with family for a bit.

Honestly, not much. I'm a master at "slumming it" if I have to. He is pretty much the opposite, so I'd probably have as much if not more financial stability on my own. Also, I could possibly get public housing assistance in the future.

Really, it's just the moving out part itself that scares me. Once I'm out, I'd be fine.

hopeful4

Maybe you should print this off and give it to him. Or write him a letter. Do not marry someone you have any reserves about at all. It's good you realize this now. It sounds like it's time to work on you!

Good Luck!

Vale

Marriage is nuclear.The real deal.No f-ing around.
If you are sure-----turn the key.
If you are not...

Don't.

(Vale will be indisposed for an indeterminate period as he contemplates a suitable
course of retaliatory action vis-a-vis Hawkeye13)

Vale

(and it's whack job of the HIGHEST ORDER, not the highest proportion!)

Vale retreats into a self destructive spiral as he pulls up every last post of
Hawkeye13's in order to point out every style gaffe, misplaced apostrophe,
et al.........and generate a report thereon (that no one will read).

Perhaps there is on this planet something more pathetic than a miffed
duck going on a spelling/punctuation jihad.....

........but good luck finding it!!!!