reluctant post
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA
Posts: 265
Ok steve 1840, let me get this straight she cheated on you and is an A? You went NC and yet you accepted contact. She is just a GF, for how long? And now you want an easy way to let her down? What is with the guilt or bad feeling you are having? Last and final why are there so many others so frustrated with you and the situation?
I am new, but very experienced with both infidelity and addiction. But I don't know your whole story. So enlighten me, because I see much frustration from the others.
I am new, but very experienced with both infidelity and addiction. But I don't know your whole story. So enlighten me, because I see much frustration from the others.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,288
perhaps i did not make it clear enough in my first post so i will repeat that i am not going to get her, but that i was seeking help in saying no. i get the frustration that some of you get with me, because i am equally as frustrated by the rescuing notion. the issues is NOT me wanting to rescue and live a fairy tale. maybe the issue is me saying no. maybe i havent been waiting for the call to rescue her. if i was, wouldn't it be easier for me to have just gone and gotten her and not try to talk about it here at the one place i am supposed to be able to talk about. i mean, i could see if i did it and then complained about it, or if i was saying i was thinking about it, but i am asking for suggestions about how not to do it. the issue all along has been my inability to say no. no where did i ask if i should go or not.
You know we all luv ya Steve!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by steve1840 
i know what i have to do, but i am only trying to find ways to do it that i feel comfortable with.
Changing old dysfunctional thinking and habits IS uncomfortable. There is just no getting around it. You can try but chances are you end up at the starting point again, having basically run in a circle.
The only way for me to get past the discomfort is through it. I will not die of discomfort.
Neither will you, my friend.
Jujubee Queen
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Charlotte, Florida
Posts: 3,582
Hi Steve,
Being the all time Gold medal winner of Codependents, I sympathize in your problem of saying NO, because, like you, I also had a difficult time.
NOW I say, "well, I have to think about that, let me get back to you......"
although most of the time, I can say NO easier...not easy, but easier.
And it gives me time to reflect on why saying NO is an important part of severing my codependence.
(ask me if I'd like to bring something to your party...I could NEVER say no...I sure can now)
I think it's a gradual learning process.
You're thinking it...you'll get it.
Hugs......
Being the all time Gold medal winner of Codependents, I sympathize in your problem of saying NO, because, like you, I also had a difficult time.
NOW I say, "well, I have to think about that, let me get back to you......"
although most of the time, I can say NO easier...not easy, but easier.
And it gives me time to reflect on why saying NO is an important part of severing my codependence.
(ask me if I'd like to bring something to your party...I could NEVER say no...I sure can now)
I think it's a gradual learning process.
You're thinking it...you'll get it.
Hugs......
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Originally Posted by steve1840
.....i later called back, figuring that i am working on recovery and she's covered in that she has a place and all, so what could be the harm.
"No" is a complete sentence. "No because" opens the door to the fantasy that you can rescue her.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
yes, i have brought this up w my therapist. i have been seeing a therapist i saw 2 years ago for a short time when the drug thing first started, he's been helping. i just went this morning.
deep down i know this is the right thing to do for me. and possible for her. i am racked with guilt though of making this a last minute thing, that i kept putting off saying no.i feel really bad about that. i feel bad letting her get her hopes up then pulling the plug on it. and i also feel bad because in my head, she has not done something for me to say no about. like- she could be staying clean so why am i not giving her a chance. in the email i told her that the plan was for her to be in a program for like a year and that we could try then. but she has not done much that way, so i think that possible nothing has changed and that she'll go right back to using. i dont see her getting a job, she has no car and i just dont feel positive about her just stepping up and doing right.
so basically, i feel that i am punishing her for no real reason. i know that is not the case. just the guilty thoughts. it is not so much about rescuing her, but that i always get ruled by being compassionate and giving chances. i havent seen her in 4 months. during that time, from the words of others, she fell back pretty far the first place she lived. she has not admitted to anything i was told, except that she used a couple of times. the chaos started there, just like it was here. she moved into another place. from what i was told that was a mess too. but htis was living with another addict, so who knows what to believe. but this addict said she was bad off and trouble. that arrangement lasted a month. thats when she sort of said things were getting out of control. that is when she hooked up with another addict who was supposed to be recovering. thats the one she said she liked even though she really still wanted to be with me. she said she liked him, but was only with him for a place to stay. that started to fall apart i guess and then i got the call that led me to where i am.
i recapped that just to see it spelled out for myself. i know i referred to her as gf and all, but i think its beyond that. its seeming like a fatherly type thing where she can mess up and i let her back thinking she learned her lesson. in that line of thinking, i do feel that she did anything for me to say no to. (this is jsut in that line ofthinking, its not how i feel)
so what it comes down to is that i feel bad about letting her down. here all week she is thinking she has a place to come back to. down there she only knows those few people and has NOTHING. she was probably feeling good about coming back and about the fantasy of us together. i feel bad that i sent the email and she has no idea. and i feel bad that she will say i am abandoning her and that i am all she has and she has no where to go. and i am afraid she will hate me for this.
that knot in the stomach and dry throat is back
just letting my thoughts ramble.
deep down i know this is the right thing to do for me. and possible for her. i am racked with guilt though of making this a last minute thing, that i kept putting off saying no.i feel really bad about that. i feel bad letting her get her hopes up then pulling the plug on it. and i also feel bad because in my head, she has not done something for me to say no about. like- she could be staying clean so why am i not giving her a chance. in the email i told her that the plan was for her to be in a program for like a year and that we could try then. but she has not done much that way, so i think that possible nothing has changed and that she'll go right back to using. i dont see her getting a job, she has no car and i just dont feel positive about her just stepping up and doing right.
so basically, i feel that i am punishing her for no real reason. i know that is not the case. just the guilty thoughts. it is not so much about rescuing her, but that i always get ruled by being compassionate and giving chances. i havent seen her in 4 months. during that time, from the words of others, she fell back pretty far the first place she lived. she has not admitted to anything i was told, except that she used a couple of times. the chaos started there, just like it was here. she moved into another place. from what i was told that was a mess too. but htis was living with another addict, so who knows what to believe. but this addict said she was bad off and trouble. that arrangement lasted a month. thats when she sort of said things were getting out of control. that is when she hooked up with another addict who was supposed to be recovering. thats the one she said she liked even though she really still wanted to be with me. she said she liked him, but was only with him for a place to stay. that started to fall apart i guess and then i got the call that led me to where i am.
i recapped that just to see it spelled out for myself. i know i referred to her as gf and all, but i think its beyond that. its seeming like a fatherly type thing where she can mess up and i let her back thinking she learned her lesson. in that line of thinking, i do feel that she did anything for me to say no to. (this is jsut in that line ofthinking, its not how i feel)
so what it comes down to is that i feel bad about letting her down. here all week she is thinking she has a place to come back to. down there she only knows those few people and has NOTHING. she was probably feeling good about coming back and about the fantasy of us together. i feel bad that i sent the email and she has no idea. and i feel bad that she will say i am abandoning her and that i am all she has and she has no where to go. and i am afraid she will hate me for this.
that knot in the stomach and dry throat is back
just letting my thoughts ramble.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by steve1840
so what it comes down to is that i feel bad about letting her down. here all week she is thinking she has a place to come back to. down there she only knows those few people and has NOTHING. she was probably feeling good about coming back and about the fantasy of us together. i feel bad that i sent the email and she has no idea. and i feel bad that she will say i am abandoning her and that i am all she has and she has no where to go. and i am afraid she will hate me for this.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
well that is what i have been thinking. is it that she just needs a place to stay. i get all that. it is just that i have all this anxiety about saying no and having her hate me or something. that is a BIG issue for me- wanting her not to hate me
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
i feel bad letting her get her hopes up then pulling the plug on it.
How do I know this? I did it all for 1 year and 8 months living on the streets of Hollywood, until I finally was 'sick and tired of being sick and tired.'
it is just that i have all this anxiety about saying no and having her hate me or something.
Saying "NO" won't change a thing. You watch, a week, a month, two months down the line she will try and call you again for a 'place to stay or some other nonsense.' What hopefully will happen then, is with work with your therapist you will NOT even pick up the phone.
Go stand in front of the mirror. Say out loud "NO". Practice it over and over until it rolls off your tongue. Then make a quick call:
"My answer is NO. Bye."
No 'sorrys', no 'explanations'. no 'yeah buts', no conversation.
You know that 'short and sweet' will make YOU feel less 'bad' than getting into a long dissertation about why she cannot stay. She already knows why.
She is your XAGF!!!!
Again, J M H O
Love and hugs,
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
thats what also gets me. true, she has not gone into a program except for that one she just was in and left. i get tripped up over the actions being louder. like, how do i know if she is using when she is 7 hours away? but how do i know she is not using? does she have to go to a program? i guess most people cant get better without it? i would feel by not going, she is not addressing the issues, but only 'white knuckling" and could easily relapse.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 164
I would make the conversation as brief as possible and not allow her to say much. If she says bad hateful things to you, remember that it is the addict talking not her. Like KC79 said, if she ever gets into recovery, she might thank you.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
like, how do i know if she is using when she is 7 hours away? but how do i know she is not using? does she have to go to a program?
You can't help her, you can't fix her, you can't make her well, so why do you CONTINUE to rent her space in your head?
Say a prayer for her. Ask your HP to 'watch over and guide her, your job not mine.'
Nothing has changed Steve. You are still obsessing over someone that you cannot .....
Have
Fix
or
Was never yours to begin with.
This is what, if I were you, I would be working VERY HARD on with MY THERAPIST.
WELL???????????????????? ......................................
Love and hugs,
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
thanks lauri. that helps. my thinking was a littel differnt though about her having a backup. what i thought was she had a place to stay for the first two months and when something else got lined up she switched to the next one. then that was falling apart but she found a next one. she's kind of in the boonies now at this place. so i was thinking that since she felt she could land here with me that she didnt make a backup. and thats what gets to me because she doesnt know anyone else to havea plan with. i think there is one girl, but she stuck it out and got a job, so she is basically left alone. but i guess she can figure something out.
i always want things to be nice and easy.
justlizzyd- i was going to say that i dont even know if she is using but i realized that that doesnt mean she isnt an addict. i will try short and sweet. i already sent hte email, i just have to tell her to read it.
i always want things to be nice and easy.
justlizzyd- i was going to say that i dont even know if she is using but i realized that that doesnt mean she isnt an addict. i will try short and sweet. i already sent hte email, i just have to tell her to read it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
jamie-
thats a good quote. i did give everything. the problem is that during this time apart i fueled up some. i forget how i felt when i was in the middle of it and i am too easy to forgive and forget. i get to a place like- that was yesterday, things are going to be different tomorrow.
thats a good quote. i did give everything. the problem is that during this time apart i fueled up some. i forget how i felt when i was in the middle of it and i am too easy to forgive and forget. i get to a place like- that was yesterday, things are going to be different tomorrow.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
laurie-
i know she is going to call and will feel like a jerk for not answering. it was easy going no contact the last time because she wasnt asking anything of me. she had a place to stay and was ok. so when she would leavea message it was just to say hi. i'll feel guily not talking to her or giving an explanation. i really feel like i am the last one ine her life and that i am now turning my back. how do i know when to talk? her mom wont let her stay there. but i do get it that i cannot be the one she keeps turning to when she has no where to go. i guess what my fear is that she has no one or nothing down there. how does someone survive like that? i know that if that triggers her to use that it is not my fault, but i am afraid that since she has no coping skills that that is what could happen. i jsut feel lost even though i know i have to do this. and, even though she is not really my gf, i always feel some reason to be there for her since her family is a mess. its like with me feeling there are only a couple people i really feel i connect with, she has me. there are no other friends. the people down there she only knew for a weeks at best. sooo i feel guilty. i fell like i am breaking up with her, not because i want to but becasue i have to.
i know she is going to call and will feel like a jerk for not answering. it was easy going no contact the last time because she wasnt asking anything of me. she had a place to stay and was ok. so when she would leavea message it was just to say hi. i'll feel guily not talking to her or giving an explanation. i really feel like i am the last one ine her life and that i am now turning my back. how do i know when to talk? her mom wont let her stay there. but i do get it that i cannot be the one she keeps turning to when she has no where to go. i guess what my fear is that she has no one or nothing down there. how does someone survive like that? i know that if that triggers her to use that it is not my fault, but i am afraid that since she has no coping skills that that is what could happen. i jsut feel lost even though i know i have to do this. and, even though she is not really my gf, i always feel some reason to be there for her since her family is a mess. its like with me feeling there are only a couple people i really feel i connect with, she has me. there are no other friends. the people down there she only knew for a weeks at best. sooo i feel guilty. i fell like i am breaking up with her, not because i want to but becasue i have to.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 951
Do we all have a God complex or something? I kept thinking I was my brother's only option. But then one day he walked away from me and from my dad. Probably the best day of his life. He stayed in a shelter for the first time ever that night. I heard later he said it was his best night of sleep in years. 3 days later he was in rehab and is now getting help. This time it isn't because we forced him, dragged him, or cajoled him.
If you truly care about her and want her to get better, you can stop feeling guilty now. What you are doing is what is best for her, no matter how much it hurts. Allowing her to continue using you, hurting you and damaging your relationship is no favor to her. If she ever gets better, she will grieve over she has treated you. It will cause her great pain and you can help limit that by letting go and understanding you aren't her savior.
Or is it more important that she not be mad at you than that she get an opportunity to be healthy?
If you truly care about her and want her to get better, you can stop feeling guilty now. What you are doing is what is best for her, no matter how much it hurts. Allowing her to continue using you, hurting you and damaging your relationship is no favor to her. If she ever gets better, she will grieve over she has treated you. It will cause her great pain and you can help limit that by letting go and understanding you aren't her savior.
Or is it more important that she not be mad at you than that she get an opportunity to be healthy?
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Burgh
Posts: 1,991
Steve,
Her back up plans are nothing more than a list of people she can use to stay in her addiction. She has simply gotten back to you on the list. The best thing that could happen to her would be for her list to run dry.
This isn't about her feelings, its about yours. And while it may seem as if you are being caring and compassionate, the truth is that you are being selfish for putting your feelings above what is best for you, your niece, her, and I'm guessing just about anyone you've talked to about this ( if there are still those who are willing to engage on this subject.)
Steve, I get it. I've done my share of obsessing. You know, this past month I've had three "friends" pass away due to cancer. Two were 53, and one was 42. What does that have to do with you, you ask? Every minute, hour, day, week and month that we spend obsessing over another takes away from our prescious time here. And we never know how long that time will be.
Her back up plans are nothing more than a list of people she can use to stay in her addiction. She has simply gotten back to you on the list. The best thing that could happen to her would be for her list to run dry.
This isn't about her feelings, its about yours. And while it may seem as if you are being caring and compassionate, the truth is that you are being selfish for putting your feelings above what is best for you, your niece, her, and I'm guessing just about anyone you've talked to about this ( if there are still those who are willing to engage on this subject.)
Steve, I get it. I've done my share of obsessing. You know, this past month I've had three "friends" pass away due to cancer. Two were 53, and one was 42. What does that have to do with you, you ask? Every minute, hour, day, week and month that we spend obsessing over another takes away from our prescious time here. And we never know how long that time will be.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 774
debbie-
i am glad to hear your brother got help.
i guess that because i am not there seeing it, i dont know if she needs to go into rehab. i am sure she isnt using hte way she was. she has been taking subs and not on heroin any more, but i would guess still using crack to some extent. it the wrong way to think, but i guess what is in my head is that if she is not in full blown addiction, where she is using all day everyday, that it is not extreme enough for her to feel she even needs rehab. im so far removed from actually knowing what is going on.
what i feel bad about is giving her this false hope that she can come back and then atthe last minute finally say no.
i am glad to hear your brother got help.
i guess that because i am not there seeing it, i dont know if she needs to go into rehab. i am sure she isnt using hte way she was. she has been taking subs and not on heroin any more, but i would guess still using crack to some extent. it the wrong way to think, but i guess what is in my head is that if she is not in full blown addiction, where she is using all day everyday, that it is not extreme enough for her to feel she even needs rehab. im so far removed from actually knowing what is going on.
what i feel bad about is giving her this false hope that she can come back and then atthe last minute finally say no.
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