Today's ramblings - forgiveness

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Old 03-07-2008, 04:34 PM
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Today's ramblings - forgiveness

I found it interesting that when my ex asked for my forgiveness, it seemed to imply that he would then be allowed back INTO my life if I chose to forgive him. I surely wasn't going to let him back in, so did that mean I couldn't forgive him?

I struggled awhile (a LONG while) with the concept of forgiveness. Could I forgive? Should I forgive? Did that mean I had to forget? Finally I figured out that for ME, forgiveness was never really mine to give as it seemed to imply some sort of judgment. In my little part of the world, judgment is for the higher power, not me.

YET, I had clearly been wronged. He hurt me, he violated my trust. He hurt my children. He made bad choices that had consequences that affected ME financially, emotionally, spiritually and more because I was his wife. Joint property and all that jazz. Did I deserve an apology? I think so. But how does that equate to forgiveness? I'm not sure I have the answer yet.

When I read more on forgiveness, it led me to learn more about resentments, and those ARE mine to deal with. When I let go of the resentment, that person/action no longer had any power over me. And that was very freeing.

I've heard it said many times that resentments are like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die. I no longer hold any resentment, and I have made my amends where necessary.

I'd love to hear more thoughts on forgiveness.
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Old 03-07-2008, 04:51 PM
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Dear Cats! I agree, holding resentments is poison!

As you know, I don't speak to my mother (for lots of psycho reasons) and am in the process of divorcing my AH. In my mother's case, I forgave her a long time ago, but I haven't forgotten. Not that I dwell. I am not a *****, drug addict or drug dealer (the last things she accused me of trying to manipulate me back into her world to take care of her), but I let it go. I can't forget, because if I forget I could potentially put myself back into her path of destruction when she is "sane" and then I would be wiped out again. So, no dwelling, but forgiveness, because I wanted to move on and have a happy life.

As for the AH. Now that I know MOST of the truth (I think), I am hanging on to resentments and anger, but that's only a tool to get me through to the final goal of a divorce, it's not actually lingering inside me eating away and as soon as it's said and done, I will forgive him too. Not for him, but for myself. Again, I won't forget. Not dwell, but to not allow this unhealthy person back in my life (unless he can prove otherwise, and he certainly has a long long way to go).

So, to me, that's forgiveness. It's for me - not the other person. It doesn't give them access back into my life, it just gives me the freedom to move on with my life. It doesn't mean I forget who they are, or the harm they have done me, for that would be foolish, but it doesn't mean I dwell on what they've done - I'm moving ahead to bigger, better and brighter things. I have learned, from both of them, what I DON'T want in my life! and for that, I am grateful!

For me, that is what I think about forgiveness. Can't wait to hear/see everyone else's!

Happy Weekend!
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Old 03-07-2008, 07:11 PM
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Definitions:

Forgive:to cease to feel resentment against

Forget: Pretend like it aint never happened and return to the same acts of insanity that caused myself to be hurt to begin with.

What he really wants to do do is to forget.

Forgiveness is about YOU releasing YOURSELF from all resentment. If he benefits from it, thats just a happy by product of your release from the bondage of hatred.
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Old 03-07-2008, 07:18 PM
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I was told by someone... You have no idea what forgiveness is.
I replied that I do.

I forgive but forgiveness does not mean that a reconciliation needs to take place.
Forgiveness can mean I don't hold a grudge against you any more...it doesn't mean I have become stupid *LOL*
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Old 03-07-2008, 07:30 PM
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I have thought about those people I have seen or read about who say they have forgiven the person who brutally murdered their daughter. They have forgiven, but that certainly doesn't mean they will EVER forget... and it doesnt' mean that the murderer is now a welcome guest in their home.

I forgive but forgiveness does not mean that a reconciliation needs to take place.
Forgiveness can mean I don't hold a grudge against you any more...it doesn't mean I have become stupid *LOL*
Hmmmm.
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Old 03-07-2008, 09:36 PM
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Cats - I believe that forgiveness is a form of letting go of what has happened and handing over judgement for it to a higher power. I actually feel enlightened when I manage to forgive. I no longer feel the desire for them to hurt like they hurt me, I no longer feel like they should pay, why? Because I know in my heart, that their higher power is in control, I actually feel pity for them, what they have to face for what they have done is bigger than anything I could ever do to them.

Forgiveness is not acceptance, forgiveness is no longer allowing them to effect you any more, not allowing their actions to hurt you any more. Forgiveness is for you, not them. Resentments, hate, anger can't reside inside your body next to peace and calm and faith. I want peace and calm so I choose to let go of what they did, it's not my problem any more, HP has that covered. I never forget that it happened, but with forgiveness, I find peace and confort. Someone more qualified has the situation under control, HP.

Even when I forgive, I still feel the pangs of sadness and hurt that it ever happened in the first place and I mourn that, I say a prayer for the person, because I know that if they find their HP, then and only then will they truely be sorry for what they did. Which is all I ever really wanted.

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Old 03-09-2008, 01:22 PM
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I believe that forgiveness does not mean that you forget what happened (or, as Best put it, become stupid again....). When I forgave my exah, it released me from the power that he had over my life-when I held onto resentment, bitterness, and anger he was constantly at the center of my thoughts and that robbed me of peace. Forgiveness DOES NOT mean that I will allow him access to my heart again. Not ever. Period.

Opening yourself up to continued mistreatment/abuse does not equal forgiveness. It equals, in a lot of cases, denial of your feelings and giving in to that pesky 'rescue' gene that we codies have. It equals being duped by fear, obligation, and guilt brought on by listening to the addict tell us how badly we treated them and how they never would have done the things they did had we been better wives, husbands, mothers, fathers, whatever.

Forgiveness is not for them, it is for us.
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Old 03-09-2008, 03:20 PM
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Amen, Amen, Amen!!!! Thank you all!!!
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Old 03-09-2008, 03:37 PM
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THe ability to forgive is a virtue. But its also another tool that an addict can use against you. I heard a saying once...it went something like this...

Hurting someone that you know will forgive you is the cruelest thing of all...

When I read this statement, my heart stopped for a moment. Although I forgave my exah many times over, I realize that he expected forgiveness from me. He thought that forgiveness was guaranteed...all he had to do was apologize and make nicey-nice for a while and all would be forgiven and forgotten. And ya know what, it worked. So many times I went thru the motions of forgiveness without REALLY forgiving him.

The act of forgiving him became almost habitual but there wasn't anything truly 'forgiving' about it.

But I think I turned a corner when I decided to forgive my exah not because he asked for my forgiveness...and not because he expected it...but because I just grew tired of carrying all that resentment and pain around. When I finally got to the point of true forgiveness, it was because I was doing it for myself and my own well being rather than bestowing a gift of some kind on the person who hurt me.

I think the motivation behind your forgiveness is just as important (if not more so) than the actual act of forgiveness itself. Does this make any sense?
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Old 03-09-2008, 04:00 PM
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I continue to be amazed at the wisdom found here on SR!

Last night, I awoke, and couldn't get back to sleep. So, I was surfing the net. And guess what I came upon? You got it! An article on forgiveness!!!

It's from the mayo clinic, a source I love and is highly respected. Here it is in it's entirety. And you'll soon see why I continue to be so amazed by the wisdom here at SR. Without any PhD's you've all got the answers!!!

Forgiveness: How to let go of grudges and bitterness
When someone you care about hurts you, you can hold on to anger, resentment and thoughts of revenge or embrace forgiveness and move forward.
Katherine M. Piderman, Ph.D.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nearly everyone has been hurt by the actions or words of another. Your mother criticized your parenting skills. Your friend gossiped about you. Your partner had an affair. These wounds can leave you with lasting feelings of anger, bitterness and even vengeance.

But when you don't practice forgiveness, you may be the one who pays most dearly. By embracing forgiveness, you embrace peace, hope, gratitude and joy. Here, Katherine M. Piderman, Ph.D., staff chaplain at Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn., discusses forgiveness and how it can lead you down the path of physical, emotional and spiritual well-being.

What is forgiveness?
There's no one definition of forgiveness. But in general, forgiveness is a decision to let go of resentments and thoughts of revenge. Forgiveness is the act of untying yourself from thoughts and feelings that bind you to the offense committed against you. This can reduce the power these feelings otherwise have over you, so that you can a live freer and happier life in the present. Forgiveness can even lead to feelings of understanding, empathy and compassion for the one who hurt you.

Doesn't forgiving someone mean you're forgetting or condoning what happened?
Absolutely not! Forgiving isn't the same as forgetting what happened to you. The act that hurt or offended you may always remain a part of your life. But forgiveness can lessen its grip on you and help you focus on other, positive parts of your life. Forgiveness also doesn't mean that you deny the other person's responsibility for hurting you, and it doesn't minimize or justify the wrong. You can forgive the person without excusing the act.

What are the benefits of forgiving someone?
Researchers have recently become interested in studying the effects of being unforgiving and being forgiving. Evidence is mounting that holding on to grudges and bitterness results in long-term health problems. Forgiveness, on the other hand, offers numerous benefits, including:

Lower blood pressure
Stress reduction
Less hostility
Better anger management skills
Lower heart rate
Lower risk of alcohol or substance abuse
Fewer depression symptoms
Fewer anxiety symptoms
Reduction in chronic pain
More friendships
Healthier relationships
Greater religious or spiritual well-being
Improved psychological well-being
Why do we hold grudges and become resentful and unforgiving?
The people most likely to hurt us are those closest to us — our partners, friends, siblings and parents. When we're hurt by someone we love and trust — whether it's a lie, betrayal, rejection, abuse or insult — it can be extremely difficult to overcome. And even minor offenses can turn into huge conflicts.

When you experience hurt or harm from someone's actions or words, whether this is intended or not, you may begin experiencing negative feelings such as anger, confusion or sadness, especially when it's someone close to you. These feelings may start out small. But if you don't deal with them quickly, they can grow bigger and more powerful. They may even begin to crowd out positive feelings. Grudges filled with resentment, vengeance and hostility take root when you dwell on hurtful events or situations, replaying them in your mind many times.

Soon, you may find yourself swallowed up by your own bitterness or sense of injustice. You may feel trapped and may not see a way out. It's very hard to let go of grudges at this point and instead you may remain resentful and unforgiving.

How do I know it's time to try to embrace forgiveness?
When we hold on to pain, old grudges, bitterness and even hatred, many areas of our lives can suffer. When we're unforgiving, it's we who pay the price over and over. We may bring our anger and bitterness into every relationship and new experience. Our lives may be so wrapped up in the wrong that we can't enjoy the present. Other signs that it may be time to consider forgiveness include:

Dwelling on the events surrounding the offense
Hearing from others that you have a chip on your shoulder or that you're wallowing in self-pity
Being avoided by family and friends because they don't enjoy being around you
Having angry outbursts at the smallest perceived slights
Often feeling misunderstood
Drinking excessively, smoking or using drugs to try to cope with your pain
Having symptoms of depression or anxiety
Being consumed by a desire for revenge or punishment
Automatically thinking the worst about people or situations
Regretting the loss of a valued relationship
Feeling like your life lacks meaning or purpose
Feeling at odds with your religious or spiritual beliefs
The bottom line is that you may often feel miserable in your current life.

How do I reach a state of forgiveness?
Forgiveness is a commitment to a process of change. It can be difficult and it can take time. Everyone moves toward forgiveness a little differently. One step is to recognize the value of forgiveness and its importance in our lives at a given time. Another is to reflect on the facts of the situation, how we've reacted, and how this combination has affected our lives, our health and our well-being. Then, as we are ready, we can actively choose to forgive the one who has offended us. In this way, we move away from our role as a victim and release the control and power the offending person and situation have had in our lives.

Forgiveness also means that we change old patterns of beliefs and actions that are driven by our bitterness. As we let go of grudges, we'll no longer define our lives by how we've been hurt, and we may even find compassion and understanding.

What happens if I can't forgive someone?
Forgiveness can be very challenging. It may be particularly hard to forgive someone who doesn't admit wrong or doesn't speak of their sorrow. Keep in mind that the key benefits of forgiveness are for you. If you find yourself stuck, it may be helpful to take some time to talk with a person you've found to be wise and compassionate, such as a spiritual leader, a mental health provider or an unbiased family member or friend.

It may also be helpful to reflect on times you've hurt others and on those who have forgiven you. As you recall how you felt, it may help you to understand the position of the person who hurt you. It can also be beneficial to pray, use guided meditation or journal. In any case, if the intention to forgive is present, forgiveness will come in its time.

Does forgiveness guarantee reconciliation?
Not always. In some cases, reconciliation may be impossible because the offender has died. In other cases, reconciliation may not be appropriate, especially if you were attacked or assaulted. But even in those cases, forgiveness is still possible, even if reconciliation isn't.

On the other hand, if the hurtful event involved a family member or friend whose relationship you otherwise value, forgiveness may lead to reconciliation. This may not happen quickly, as you both may need time to re-establish trust. But in the end, your relationship may very well be one that is rich and fulfilling.

What if I have to interact with the person who hurt me but I don't want to?
These situations are difficult. If the hurt involves a family member, it may not always be possible to avoid him or her entirely. You may be invited to the same family holiday gatherings, for instance. If you've reached a state of forgiveness, you may be able to enjoy these gatherings without bringing up the old hurts. If you haven't reached forgiveness, these gatherings may be tense and stressful for everyone, particularly if other family members have chosen sides in the conflict.

So how do you handle this? First, remember that you do have a choice whether to attend or not attend family get-togethers. Respect yourself and do what seems best. If you choose to go, don't be surprised by a certain amount of awkwardness and perhaps even more intense feelings. It's important to keep an eye on those feelings. You don't want them to lead you to be unjust or unkind in return for what was done to you.

Also, avoid drinking too much alcohol as a way to try to numb your feelings or feel better — it'll likely backfire. And keep an open heart and mind. People do change, and perhaps the offender will want to apologize or make amends. You also may find that the gathering helps you to move forward with forgiveness.

How do I know when I've truly forgiven someone?
Forgiveness may result in sincerely spoken words such as "I forgive you" or tender actions that fit the relationship. But more than this, forgiveness brings a kind of peace that helps you go on with life. The offense is no longer front and center in your thoughts or feelings. Your hostility, resentment and misery have made way for compassion, kindness and peace.

Also, remember that forgiveness often isn't a one-time thing. It begins with a decision, but because memories or another set of words or actions may trigger old feelings, you may need to recommit to forgiveness over and over again.

What if the person I'm forgiving doesn't change?
Getting the other person to change their actions, behavior or words isn't the point of forgiveness. In fact, the other person may never change or apologize for the offense. Think of forgiveness more about how it can change your life — by bringing you more peace, happiness, and emotional and spiritual healing.

Forgiveness takes away the power the other person continues to wield in your life. Through forgiveness, you choose to no longer define yourself as a victim. Forgiveness is done primarily for yourself, and less so for the person who wronged you.

What if I'm the one who needs forgiveness?
It may help to spend some time thinking about the offense you've committed and trying to determine the effect it has had on others. Unless it may cause more harm or distress, consider admitting the wrong you've done to those you've harmed, speaking of your sincere sorrow or regret, and specifically asking for forgiveness — without making excuses.

But if this seems unwise because it may further harm or distress, don't do it — it's not about making yourself feel better by apologizing. You don't want to add salt to a painful wound. Also, keep in mind that you can't force someone to forgive you. They will need to move to forgiveness in their own time.

In any case, we have to be willing to forgive ourselves. Holding on to resentment against yourself can be just as toxic as holding on to resentment against someone else. Recognize that poor behavior or mistakes don't make you worthless or bad.

Accept the fact that you — like everyone else — aren't perfect. Accept yourself despite your faults. Admit your mistakes. Commit to treating others with compassion, empathy and respect. And again, talking with a spiritual leader, mental health provider or trusted friend or relative may be helpful.

Forgiveness of yourself or someone else, though not easy, can transform your life. Instead of dwelling on the injustice and revenge, instead of being angry and bitter, you can move toward a life of peace, compassion, mercy, joy and kindness.
Now, can you blame me for being so amazed at the brillance shown here by my SR friends and family????

Thanks for sharing!

Shalom!
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Old 03-09-2008, 07:27 PM
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Evidently someone should be taking notes here! We could open up the Miracle Whip Clinic (since Mayo is already taken.....)
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:56 PM
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The thing I have found with forgiveness, is that if the person I'm forgiving is truelly sorry for what they did, I don't mean lip service sorry, but heart felt sorry, I have no problem with forgiving them. The ones that were never sorry, never apologized and never changed, those have taken years to forgive. Some I've managed to, others I still work hard to. But I keep trying, for me, not them.

I also found that once some of them died and there would never be a chance for them to ever make amends to me, it was easier to let go of a lot and finelly move on.

I used to weild my forgiveness like a weapon. I would use it as a negotiation tool, "I can forgive you if you change" "I'll never forgive you until you quit using" I was trying to control someone else. Other times, it just hurt too much to forgive because to forgive meant that I had to face what had happened and I was using my anger and hurt as a shield from having to really accept that certain things happened. In this instance, once I did manage to forgive, it hurt bad because when I faced the enormaty of it all, I had to finely face it, walk through it, experience the hurt and finelly move forward and let all that hurt go.

It's not just a choice, it can be really hard work to do, but I've never regretted forgiving people (unless I allowed them to do the same thing again), I have regretted not forgiving them.

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Old 03-10-2008, 01:28 AM
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I've heard it said that forgiveness is us letting go of the pain attached to an action. I've also heard it said that the antidote to resentment is forgiveness.

For me, it truly is letting go of the pain and resentment that I may have once attached. That gives it all back to God and often opens my heart to compassion for the sickness behind the deed. Doesn't mean I allow it to happen again, or even have anything to do with the person who did it. But it does allow me to finally detach with compassion, if not love, and just let go of the poison.

I know that when the time comes, I'd rather go to my grave with a heart full of forgiveness than one filled with resentments.

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Old 03-10-2008, 12:02 PM
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Great thread, Cats,
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