Duck Poop and Bunny Slippers
Nature Girl
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Originally Posted by mooselips 
I'm thinking I shall turn it ito a ghostly campfire kind of tale....
complete with the horrendous ending......
You'll have... to wait.....BE prepared....it's an ugly..... frightening tale,
starring our sweet.............feathered friends.
.............OoOoOoOOoo...(place spooky sounds HERE)
complete with the horrendous ending......
You'll have... to wait.....BE prepared....it's an ugly..... frightening tale,
starring our sweet.............feathered friends.
.............OoOoOoOOoo...(place spooky sounds HERE)
I love a good hair raising story around the campfire. I'll bring the wienies and you bring the stories and we can scare ourselves to death.
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Join Date: Aug 2002
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I love a good hair raising story around the campfire. I'll bring the wienies and you bring the stories and we can scare ourselves to death.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Calif
Posts: 1,007
Hi Ann
Oh my such a decision not to feed the poor babies anymore...boo hoo!
Funny you should write about the ducks because recently I have been feeding the poor little doe(s). It started by my throwing them pieces of apple and now, I've got the entire deer population standing below my deck waiting.
Mr. Dev was kind of upset with me the other day when he went to have his "after dinner" apple and there weren't anymore. Oopps, what's a codie to do? The poor little things were so hungry.
Anyway, I promised I wouldn't do it anymore and yesterday Mr. Dev said "now that you have attracted the entire deer population to our property, come see what they did to our plants!"
Well, that's because he made me stop feeding them. Poor things they had to find something else to munch on.
Sorry about the Bunny Slippers though! Yipes!
Hugs, Devastated
Funny you should write about the ducks because recently I have been feeding the poor little doe(s). It started by my throwing them pieces of apple and now, I've got the entire deer population standing below my deck waiting.
Mr. Dev was kind of upset with me the other day when he went to have his "after dinner" apple and there weren't anymore. Oopps, what's a codie to do? The poor little things were so hungry.
Anyway, I promised I wouldn't do it anymore and yesterday Mr. Dev said "now that you have attracted the entire deer population to our property, come see what they did to our plants!"
Well, that's because he made me stop feeding them. Poor things they had to find something else to munch on.
Sorry about the Bunny Slippers though! Yipes!
Hugs, Devastated
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Out on the Ocean Blue
Posts: 272
Loved your story Ann - I'm jealous - those slippers you rec'd are too cute - and the camp fire - weiners and marshmallows are on my to do list for this summer - I'll bring the beach and the ocean OK?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a State of Grace
Posts: 100
Dear Ann,
Oh My Gosh, Thank you, That was so funny and what a lesson!
While we are all waiting anxiously for Moose to tell us her very scary story, I will share my "Nature Lesson from God". Also, Devastated, this is NOT directed at you. This Lesson was so important to me that I printed it out on 01/16/2007 and reflect upon it often. Promise!
Anyway, Right after I found out that my AB, who is now in recovery, was smoking crack last December, I searched on the internet to find out what I needed to do about my behavior because I knew I was enabling him to continue to use. (Which, by the way is how I found SR.) While searching I found this article:
Deer Need a Little "Tough Love" in Winter
by Jim Knight
MSU Extension Wildlife Specialist
01/14/98 BOZEMAN -- The deer you plan to feed over the winter may need some "tough love" instead.
Just as people have learned that sometimes well-meant help facilitates unhealthy behavior, so winter feeding of deer is unhealthy -- or even deadly -- for deer, says Jim Knight, Montana State University Extension wildlife specialist.
Feeding seems like a generous answer to starving wildlife at first, says Knight. However, most people don't know that some common feeds can harm deer or change their behavior to the point that it leads to their destruction.
"Many people think that feeding deer in a hard winter can do nothing but help," says Knight. "That's not always the case." Knight describes the following scene he witnessed during the winter of 1996-97.
A tearful woman was talking to a central Montana wildlife biologist.
"We can’t afford any more food, and the poor things are dying," the woman complained. "Every day more and more come to the feeders, but we’re already spending $100 a month. Isn’t there something you can do?"
"I’m sorry, ma’am," the wildlife biologist said, "but you’re drawing deer from all over the area. They aren’t used to a diet of hay and corn, so I’m afraid you’re going to have more of this," he said, pointing to two frozen carcasses of yearling deer only feet from hay-filled feeders.
This scene is repeated many times each winter in Montana, says Knight.
Feeding deer hay or corn can kill them, because they cannot always digest it. Deer digestion involves protozoa and bacteria that help break down food. Different micro-organisms help digest different types of vegetation. If a deer has been feeding on aspen or willows, it has built up the micro-organisms that digest only this kind of vegetation. If this same deer suddenly fills its stomach with corn or hay, it may not have enough of the corn- and hay-digesting micro-organisms in its stomach to digest the food. A deer can starve to death with a full stomach.
In addition, deer can become fixated on a food source, says Knight. Deer will stay near a sure food source, even an inadequate one, rather than seek more sufficient food in other areas.
Once food is discovered, deer concentrate around a feeder rather than scattering through the available winter range. Often, they remain in an artificial feeding area getting only half the food they need rather than fighting the snow to use natural browse. They quickly deplete any close-by forage and can stay in a feeder area until they starve to death. This is why spring searches often reveal concentrations of dead deer within the immediate vicinity of feed areas.
So if you still decide to feed deer, you must feed every day, says Knight. If you become ill and can no longer feed, the deer that depend on you for food will suffer. Any interruption, whether due to depleted funds, a vacation, a snow storm or a midwinter move to a warmer climate, will eliminate part or all of a deer’s diet. Once a feeding program starts, it must continue until spring when delicate new growth lures deer to resume foraging away from your feeder.
And, another problem is that deer won't "divvy up" feed equally.
Deer need 3.5 pounds of good browse daily. If you aren't feeding this much for each one, some will be undernourished. Even if you provide this much food per deer per day on average, some deer will eat five pounds leaving other deer with too little. So some deer will starve.
In addition, artificial feeding makes deer abnormally competitive.
Competition between deer in natural situations usually is limited, because natural food sources are scattered. In artificial feeding situations, deer often become combative, striking one another with hooves to assure themselves a share of the food. Young deer, the ones that need the food most, are kept away by larger or stronger deer.
Artificial feeding also can spread disease.
When deer are abnormally close to one another, contagious diseases or parasites are more easily spread. Wildlife pathologists now suspect that artificially-fed deer in high populations may develop disorders that lead to peculiar habits, such as eating hair from themselves and other deer.
Early last spring, Knight says he had the unpleasant experience of seeing a yearling buck infested with black, wort-like growths. These growths, which are caused by a contagious virus, had completely covered the deer’s face. The blinded animal was running into fences, trees and other obstructions and had severely cut itself before being put out of its misery by a wildlife biologist. This deer was killed within a half mile of the woman’s feed station mentioned earlier.
The consequences of artificial feeding mentioned up to now are direct and easily observed. There are, however, other less obvious implications.
Many deer visiting feed stations are carrying fawns. If the food being provided is not as abundant as natural browse, not only the doe, but also her fawns may be undernourished.
Artificial feeding may force deer to ignore their instincts. Deer have evolved to fear man. This has helped them survive. Artificial feeding forces them to ignore the presence of people. In some cases, this could be their downfall.
Finally, artificial feeding would have to increase infinitely to feed all the animals that would come.
If you found the perfect diet that provided all necessary nutrients, and if you were able to feed the equivalent of 3.5 pounds per deer of good browse daily, and if you were able to get the feed divided equally among the animals, and if you were able to minimize the spread of disease due to the animals being closer together than they would be naturally, even then your problems would not be at an end.
Next year, the perfectly fed and healthy animals' offspring would come with their mothers. Each year, you would need to provide more feed for the new generations.
In truth, you may hurt more deer than you help if you feed them.
There is a way to help, however.
"Create and maintain a natural habitat and combine that with proper hunting. It's the only way to minimize starvation and work for both deer health and humane treatment," says Knight. "If deer populations aren't controlled by man or other predators, you will have starvation."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This article spoke to me so much when I first read it. I knew it was a lesson. I knew I needed to look at and change my behavior. Otherwise, I might accidently kill him with my love.
Lithloren
Oh My Gosh, Thank you, That was so funny and what a lesson!
While we are all waiting anxiously for Moose to tell us her very scary story, I will share my "Nature Lesson from God". Also, Devastated, this is NOT directed at you. This Lesson was so important to me that I printed it out on 01/16/2007 and reflect upon it often. Promise!
Anyway, Right after I found out that my AB, who is now in recovery, was smoking crack last December, I searched on the internet to find out what I needed to do about my behavior because I knew I was enabling him to continue to use. (Which, by the way is how I found SR.) While searching I found this article:
Deer Need a Little "Tough Love" in Winter
by Jim Knight
MSU Extension Wildlife Specialist
01/14/98 BOZEMAN -- The deer you plan to feed over the winter may need some "tough love" instead.
Just as people have learned that sometimes well-meant help facilitates unhealthy behavior, so winter feeding of deer is unhealthy -- or even deadly -- for deer, says Jim Knight, Montana State University Extension wildlife specialist.
Feeding seems like a generous answer to starving wildlife at first, says Knight. However, most people don't know that some common feeds can harm deer or change their behavior to the point that it leads to their destruction.
"Many people think that feeding deer in a hard winter can do nothing but help," says Knight. "That's not always the case." Knight describes the following scene he witnessed during the winter of 1996-97.
A tearful woman was talking to a central Montana wildlife biologist.
"We can’t afford any more food, and the poor things are dying," the woman complained. "Every day more and more come to the feeders, but we’re already spending $100 a month. Isn’t there something you can do?"
"I’m sorry, ma’am," the wildlife biologist said, "but you’re drawing deer from all over the area. They aren’t used to a diet of hay and corn, so I’m afraid you’re going to have more of this," he said, pointing to two frozen carcasses of yearling deer only feet from hay-filled feeders.
This scene is repeated many times each winter in Montana, says Knight.
Feeding deer hay or corn can kill them, because they cannot always digest it. Deer digestion involves protozoa and bacteria that help break down food. Different micro-organisms help digest different types of vegetation. If a deer has been feeding on aspen or willows, it has built up the micro-organisms that digest only this kind of vegetation. If this same deer suddenly fills its stomach with corn or hay, it may not have enough of the corn- and hay-digesting micro-organisms in its stomach to digest the food. A deer can starve to death with a full stomach.
In addition, deer can become fixated on a food source, says Knight. Deer will stay near a sure food source, even an inadequate one, rather than seek more sufficient food in other areas.
Once food is discovered, deer concentrate around a feeder rather than scattering through the available winter range. Often, they remain in an artificial feeding area getting only half the food they need rather than fighting the snow to use natural browse. They quickly deplete any close-by forage and can stay in a feeder area until they starve to death. This is why spring searches often reveal concentrations of dead deer within the immediate vicinity of feed areas.
So if you still decide to feed deer, you must feed every day, says Knight. If you become ill and can no longer feed, the deer that depend on you for food will suffer. Any interruption, whether due to depleted funds, a vacation, a snow storm or a midwinter move to a warmer climate, will eliminate part or all of a deer’s diet. Once a feeding program starts, it must continue until spring when delicate new growth lures deer to resume foraging away from your feeder.
And, another problem is that deer won't "divvy up" feed equally.
Deer need 3.5 pounds of good browse daily. If you aren't feeding this much for each one, some will be undernourished. Even if you provide this much food per deer per day on average, some deer will eat five pounds leaving other deer with too little. So some deer will starve.
In addition, artificial feeding makes deer abnormally competitive.
Competition between deer in natural situations usually is limited, because natural food sources are scattered. In artificial feeding situations, deer often become combative, striking one another with hooves to assure themselves a share of the food. Young deer, the ones that need the food most, are kept away by larger or stronger deer.
Artificial feeding also can spread disease.
When deer are abnormally close to one another, contagious diseases or parasites are more easily spread. Wildlife pathologists now suspect that artificially-fed deer in high populations may develop disorders that lead to peculiar habits, such as eating hair from themselves and other deer.
Early last spring, Knight says he had the unpleasant experience of seeing a yearling buck infested with black, wort-like growths. These growths, which are caused by a contagious virus, had completely covered the deer’s face. The blinded animal was running into fences, trees and other obstructions and had severely cut itself before being put out of its misery by a wildlife biologist. This deer was killed within a half mile of the woman’s feed station mentioned earlier.
The consequences of artificial feeding mentioned up to now are direct and easily observed. There are, however, other less obvious implications.
Many deer visiting feed stations are carrying fawns. If the food being provided is not as abundant as natural browse, not only the doe, but also her fawns may be undernourished.
Artificial feeding may force deer to ignore their instincts. Deer have evolved to fear man. This has helped them survive. Artificial feeding forces them to ignore the presence of people. In some cases, this could be their downfall.
Finally, artificial feeding would have to increase infinitely to feed all the animals that would come.
If you found the perfect diet that provided all necessary nutrients, and if you were able to feed the equivalent of 3.5 pounds per deer of good browse daily, and if you were able to get the feed divided equally among the animals, and if you were able to minimize the spread of disease due to the animals being closer together than they would be naturally, even then your problems would not be at an end.
Next year, the perfectly fed and healthy animals' offspring would come with their mothers. Each year, you would need to provide more feed for the new generations.
In truth, you may hurt more deer than you help if you feed them.
There is a way to help, however.
"Create and maintain a natural habitat and combine that with proper hunting. It's the only way to minimize starvation and work for both deer health and humane treatment," says Knight. "If deer populations aren't controlled by man or other predators, you will have starvation."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This article spoke to me so much when I first read it. I knew it was a lesson. I knew I needed to look at and change my behavior. Otherwise, I might accidently kill him with my love.
Lithloren
Nature Girl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Well, I have compromised, lol. Just as I decided not to feed them, I heard on The Weather Network how the mama birds need lots of food right now to have her babies, and I have noticed that Mr. Duck always lets Mrs. Duck eat first so now I know why.
So....they still get a little food....on the lawn. One feeding a day, on the lawn, and that seems to keep them happy. So far they haven't pooped on my deck again so it works for me. In another week or two, when she has hatched her babies, there will be no more feeding. :sweat
It's a beautiful warm sunny day here today, so I think I'll go for a walk and see what other wildlife is having babies right now. I haven't seen my little foxes for quite a while and my guess is that they are busy with babies who are too young to show off in front of my place. I am so blessed to have nature at its finest all around me here and grateful that winter is over and I can get out and enjoy every minute of good weather.
I'll post a picture of the baby ducks when I get to see them, hopefully soon and I am happy you all are enjoying them as much as I am....except for the poop.
Hugs
So....they still get a little food....on the lawn. One feeding a day, on the lawn, and that seems to keep them happy. So far they haven't pooped on my deck again so it works for me. In another week or two, when she has hatched her babies, there will be no more feeding. :sweat
It's a beautiful warm sunny day here today, so I think I'll go for a walk and see what other wildlife is having babies right now. I haven't seen my little foxes for quite a while and my guess is that they are busy with babies who are too young to show off in front of my place. I am so blessed to have nature at its finest all around me here and grateful that winter is over and I can get out and enjoy every minute of good weather.
I'll post a picture of the baby ducks when I get to see them, hopefully soon and I am happy you all are enjoying them as much as I am....except for the poop.
Hugs
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Tawas, MI
Posts: 3,683
Good compromise, Ann. You get to enjoy them. Momma has a bit more food. And no poop on your deck. Everyone is happy
Last night I went with my husband to his golf course and right outside their maintenance building there is a momma turkey sitting on her clutch of eggs, there are 3 baby foxes not far from one of the greens and "Earl the Squirrel" (this is the one that we fostered 4 years ago) has had another litter inside of the maintenance building's wall. You can hear them playing inside. So anytime I want a shot of nature, I just go to the course. Hugs, Marle
Last night I went with my husband to his golf course and right outside their maintenance building there is a momma turkey sitting on her clutch of eggs, there are 3 baby foxes not far from one of the greens and "Earl the Squirrel" (this is the one that we fostered 4 years ago) has had another litter inside of the maintenance building's wall. You can hear them playing inside. So anytime I want a shot of nature, I just go to the course. Hugs, Marle
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Calif
Posts: 1,007
Lithloren
Thanks for that article. I feel so bad now! Story of my life. I think I'm doing a good thing and instead I'm creating monsters that end up fighting! Damn, and they were all such good friends before I started feeding them.
Kidding aside, we have nothing but wilderness here for the deer; however, I have noticed them butting the other smaller ones when I fed them. I will not ever do that again!
I promise I won't feel sorry for them anymore and know that they were doing fine before I started "butting" in their lives.
See what happens when the child ends up in prison, I've got to find someone else to take care of.
Don't mean to hi-jack Ann's post but one other new thing I did learn after my sister ending up trapping baby opossums was when they are born they aren't any bigger than a honey bee. Their mom carries them around in a pouch and if she had to swim the pouch closes up so they are safe. Wildlife people said if you ever see one that got hit by a car, and they have a pouch, chances are they have babies still alive because they are so protected. Hard to believe that though huh?
Hugs, Devastated
Kidding aside, we have nothing but wilderness here for the deer; however, I have noticed them butting the other smaller ones when I fed them. I will not ever do that again!
I promise I won't feel sorry for them anymore and know that they were doing fine before I started "butting" in their lives.
See what happens when the child ends up in prison, I've got to find someone else to take care of.
Don't mean to hi-jack Ann's post but one other new thing I did learn after my sister ending up trapping baby opossums was when they are born they aren't any bigger than a honey bee. Their mom carries them around in a pouch and if she had to swim the pouch closes up so they are safe. Wildlife people said if you ever see one that got hit by a car, and they have a pouch, chances are they have babies still alive because they are so protected. Hard to believe that though huh?
Hugs, Devastated
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In my little piece of heaven
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I too am a duck magnet. I stopped traffic on a busy street today to let a momma duck and her babies cross the street... the driver behind me was a bit irritated with me until he realized what was going on...then he and his wife smiled and waved as they passed me. It was a lovely moment.
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a State of Grace
Posts: 100
Ann,
Sorry if I hi-jacked your thread. I didn't mean to. For some reason I thought my lesson was similar to yours.
Devastated,
Thank you for what you wrote, I just wanted to hug you when I read your reply!
Me Too!!!
Big Hugs,
Lithloren
P.S. That's really interesting about opossums. I did not know that.
Sorry if I hi-jacked your thread. I didn't mean to. For some reason I thought my lesson was similar to yours.
Devastated,
Thank you for what you wrote, I just wanted to hug you when I read your reply!
Originally Posted by devastated
Story of my life. I think I'm doing a good thing and instead I'm creating monsters that end up fighting!
I promise I won't feel sorry for them anymore and know that they were doing fine before I started "butting" in their lives.
I promise I won't feel sorry for them anymore and know that they were doing fine before I started "butting" in their lives.
Big Hugs,
Lithloren
P.S. That's really interesting about opossums. I did not know that.
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