minnie

This is such an interesting thread and my brain is too tired to participate. (I have a confession to make - had one too many wines last night and today my life was verging on the unmanageable. So I am trying very hard not to be a hypocrite today.)

Equus - you make some interesting points about the British and I couldn't agree more. I am getting more and more frustrated with attitudes in this country. Many people are content to do minimal thinking, take their opinions from tabloids and follow the herd - in fact, many are scared to do anything other than that. Being an individual is seen as vital as far as rights are concerned and freaky as far as truly having your own opinions or ability to think. I could go on forever - and I might yet in the morning.

I do a lot of reading on the BBC relationship message boards and I am shocked on a daily basis by attitudes on there. So many of the "codie" (just using that as shorthand) tendencies are in abundance, regardless of the presence of addiction, and attempts to demonstrate a healthier alternative are not only ignored, but actually ridiculed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/h2/h2....th.sex&&sort=U

Rant over.

As far as obsessive thinking is concerned - well, concern has been expressed by those around me that I am obsessive about my recovery. I don't think I am. I think I am curious. And also, I know that I have a lot of healthy thinking to catch up on and I have thrown myself headlong into reading and learning so that I don't waste another minute of my life. Far rather be obsessive about learning than what I used to obsess about.

FormerDoormat

Some folks like Equus are "deep thinkers," other folks like myself are "deep feelers." That is, we tend to focus more on emotions (our own and those of others), so we tend to "feel our way through life." It's not that we aren't capable of careful analysis, we just find it more difficult and tedius, and we'd much rather leave the task to others.

I value analytical thinkers for being able to focus on details that I don't care to dwell on, for figuring out why things work, for defining a process, for helping me see things from a different perspective.

Emotional thinkers also focus on details. We are sensitive to the human condition, to how our actions affect others, to the plight of animals. For example, when I see a dog tied to a tree, day in and out, without proper food or shelter, living a solitary life with no contact from humans or other animals, I can feel it's sadness. I can feel it's loneliness. I am aware it lives a life of quiet desperation. I can feel it's longing to be touched, appreciated, and loved. I can feel it's yearning to be free. And I can't turn my back on it.

So, I turn the car around, and one by one, I rescue those lost souls, give them food and shelter, speak to them softly, stroke them gently, show them what's it's like to feel loved and wanted. Then I help them find new homes where they receive plenty of love and attention, where they can sleep inside and be warm and dry, where they are appreciated, where they are no longer invisible. And when they drive away with their new families, I think back on their former lives, and I know I've set them free.

I suppose that's why it took me so long to let go of my exAB. I could feel his pain, I could feel his loneliness, I was aware he lived a life of quiet desperation, I could feel his longing to fit in. I could feel his yearning to be free of alcoholism. But I didn't have the power to set him free.

I think what Equus said is true. The world is made up of analytical thinkers and emotional thinkers, and it's a better place because of it. I learn so much from her posts and from other analytical thinkers who post here. So I come here to learn what I can and share what I can.

While I'm not a musician like Jazzman, I am an artist. And I, too, go to "that quiet place" where he goes when he's strumming his guitar. Only in my quiet place I'm holding a paintbrush. That quiet place is a special place that those of us involved in the arts found long ago. It's not hard to find. All it takes is a momentary shift from the left side of the brain to the right side of the brain. That's the non-verbal side of the brain that Jazzman goes with the strum of his guitar and finds peace.

Analytical thinkers tend to rely more on the left side of their brains. But with practice they can learn how to "come on over to our side." To a place that's quiet and peaceful, to a place that fosters creativity, to a place where you'll feel free from worry, and no words are running through your mind. If you'd like to find Jazzman's place, get yourself a copy of "Thinking on the Right Side of the Brain" (forget the author). Then you'll understand what Jazzman is talking about.

minnie

Very interesting points, FD.

I used to be a total "feeler", but I am developing the "thinking" bit too. And I have Equus to thank for that, actually. The amount of times she has made my brain hurt! And I guess it works both ways, cos I could swear I saw her give someone a virtual hug the other day.

equus

Hehehehehe.... partly why I don't see any diagnostic recognition in the near future but I know what you mean.

I think I spent so many years feeling as though a choice to be alone was strange and yet I observed there were very few people who's realtionship i could or would live with.

What often interests me is not the individual that conforms - I think that is understandable, to a greater or lesser extent we all do; the thing that fascinates me is the fear of difference when there seems to be no observable threat from that difference. It's the behaviour towards difference that I think ultimately coerces individuals to conform and given the right circumstances accept the unacceptable.

I think obsession is a word that is context specific when used casually. We expect career people to be driven by careers, in acedemia no less than what would be called obsession here is the minimum expectation of effort. Philosophers, holy folk, even fiction authors spend huge quantities of time contemplating the nature of 'stuff' - 'us'.

I've just spent the last nearly 3 hours, first cooking which I love, absorbed happily just in smells, colours, and rythms of cutting, mixing and tossing. I ate enjoying the flavour, then curled up and rested with D on the sofa - kind of platted! Not once in that time did I feel a compulsive or invasive thought, just drift and telly. He goes for a shower and I come in here and enjoy the thoughts of individualism 'vs' the norm in relationships. For me, that's a fine evening! I think also it's the difference between enjoying thinking and obsessive thinking - at least it is by the dictionary definition of the word.

minnie

Quite. How did we, as a society, reach that point? It disturbs me that we are so judgemental. You only have to switch on the TV any night of the week to see people being put to the public vote.

I've gone v. off thread here and am not in any shape to verbalise my thoughts. Hope you catch my drift.

splendra

I totally enjoyed my obsessive thoughts it was like getting high I loved getting deeper and deeper analyzing more and more trying to reach perfect understanding being the the great open one the one who would not could not judge only understand floating freely in the giant space between my ears....my 17 year old son read me this: " a fool gains understanding while a simple person gains wisdom" he cut me off at the knees and I just had to laugh out loud now, that is the true Tao...

No social pressure...just sharing....

Jazzman

I'm thinking I need to stick to comic relief... my brain hurts.

cwohio

you guys are way over my head on this thread - that would be me sitting at the back of the classroom with the "dunce cap" on! LOL

Jazzman

I know christie, maybe I'll start up again tomorrow. This has been a tough week, working too many nights, not enough sleep. Or maybe I'll just stick to the back of the class for a few days... some spit balls will get juiced up again..

cwohio

well shoot a couple at me to keep me awake will ya!? LOL

JessicaNAJ

Chris....Hope you don't mind if I join you back here. I'm not really doing too much thinking these days, seems to get me in trouble.

Cap3

Everyone is different of course.
Some are deep thinkers,and some are not.
heard ,that no one on their death beds,wished they had learned more.
For life is a mystery.
They wished they had spent more time ,with their loved ones,and friends,laughing,loving carring and keeping in total awe,and wonder,like a child about life.
The great inventors of our time and before our time,were great thinkers.
different strokes for the many different folks....

splendra

OHHHH((((CAP))))

I love your answer....

equus

I think obsession starts where balance stops!! If I began refusing a cuddle on the sofa (like hell I would!) to research, think, learn or even fight a cause THEN I'd be worried.

Thought is not in oppostion to emotions; our feelings often arise from our perception (thoughts) of events. Thinking more doesn't mean feeling less, it just means more self awareness of the connection between the two.

If you feel it's a dangerous thing then you must stay away from it and do as you see best. But I will do as I see best and I'm happy with it, I have caution, it does no harm to double check every now and again but this check has simply made me more content.

I learn from D about the sun, the clouds, the plants and bugs - I still walk in teh feilds full of wonder but it seems richer, it ISN'T either/or.

Zoey

I hate words, first one was dysfunctional, arn't we all dysfunctional??? We are all human and all different.
Next was denial.
I asked a couple of A's were you in denial??
"No, they had no idea that the alcohol was the problem, all their friends drank, and they didn't sit around discussing addiction, empty calories, etc. etc.
One young man was trying to get a business started so he wanted to socialize with the business men, and they all drank. He just assumed this is the life of businessmen. Then his buddies drank to watch sports, so this is life, part of being a man..
Wife not happy, but he is trying to fit and make money. He thought he should watch the clock closer and get home sooner, never dawned on him the alcohol kept him from watching the clock. Then hualed off to treatment where he learned about what alcohol was doing to him. Then once he knew this and then slipped it could be denial.

Then my other thought is, if people do not like me, or they want to controll me, or they think they are really smart, then they come up with, I don't want you to be obessed with this.
Those that like me think I am much smarter than I am, those that don't like me think I am a dumb fool.
My hardest lesson to learn in life was, not everyone can or will like me.
I cannot declare they are jealous, or that it is their lose. How would I know???? I just have to accept it. Any of this make sense ??
We do not label great scientists obsessive. Has anyone called Bill Gates obsessive??
I just do not understand words. Great topic.
In our grief when there is a lose, we could be said to be obsessed with guilt, etc. but isn't it just human nature and grief takes time and feeling it all.????.

Girlfriend

Hey Clancy

This is a DEEP thread and a good one.

I, too, don't like to be defined by words. They become labels. Labels become stereotypical and general. How can we possibly be described with a word? We're much too complicated for that.

It's like "Oh, so you're an alcoholic, huh?" (I'm a recovering alcoholic. That's the best description of it for me) "Oh, you go to THAT church!" (What does that mean? What kind of church are you referring to)

AND, my pet peeve of all pet peeves......."It's too bad about her handicap, isn't it?" I have a surrogate 77 yr old Mom that took me under her wing two months after my Mom died of a heart attack.

Myrtle has had several TIA's in her lifetime (small strokes), so she physically shakes, her body has tremors and her speech is like that of Katherine Hepburn. It takes her longer to speak, but I understand all of what she says.

When ladies say that about Myrtle, I'll say "What handicap? Myrtle is no more handicapped than you or I. We all have our own "handicaps"." They usually just look at me with a surprised look and drop the subject.

To me, Myrtle is a beautiful lady with a heart of gold. So what if her speech is shaky and so is her body? She has the heart of a survivor and to me, that's not handicapped.

I hope that all made sense.

Zoey

Girlfriend Hi..
Thanks for your view on words.
I always thought about the saying, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me" That never seemed right to me somehow, but didn't know why, untill it dawned on me words can kill.

(Such as a boy that realizes he is gay, and has heard pious family members say, I would disown any family member that would bring such shame on to my family)
Before support groups some committed suicide, some still do). That was probably when I realized words can kill.

I do know the psycriatric Dr. has to fill out a form for insurance, that is fine, but one little gal, kept saying, "the Dr. said I am paranoid". I finally said, "Try not to say that about yourself, as I believe any of us can be paranoid at times, that is part of being human"
So, guess it could be said, I am a bit obsessed about words??

I am so glad that AA taught, we try to not call anyone an alcoholic, that is up to the person to say it. It is fine here on SR to use AH etc. that gives a short hand version of the problem. Also I feel it is best to not say should or always to family members and friends that are having a bad time.

I would say equus has a deep interest and curiosity and enjoys obtaining knowledge, and for a good cause.
I like the sayng, "I am into this for right now."
Thoughts on words could go on forever I guess.
Bottom line for me seems to be, who is saying it and why.



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Jazzman

Bravo!

In the "grand scheme" of things, all that matters is the legacy of our memories we leave behind with our loved ones.

"And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make" - John Lennon