Hatguysgirl

My husband (or soon to be ex) is staying on his new girlfriends couch to save up for a new place. I had been sending him pictures of the kids every few days, and making basic conversation with him. I had been trying to keep him involved in his kids lives, since he had been responding and seemed interested in being friends. Since Thanksgiving, when he told me he was staying with the new girl (although calling her his girlfriend is me, he still insists their friends with benefits, and I doubt that even at this point) he's been totally withdrawn and has barely responded to me and takes a few days to respond each time. I finally told him I was giving up since he clearly didn't want anything to do with us. He responded that he doesn't know what he wants, but it's not that he doesn't want anything to do with us, it's just too hard to let go of his girls when he sees and talks to them. I'm not sure if I'm still included in the grouping 'his girls' or not, I did tell him he can't tell me he has feelings for me while he isn't actively ready to work on our relationship so I may or may not be. Who knows. I was totally fine with going no contact. We have an ultrasound in a few days which I decided if he remembers and asks to come that he can, but if he forgets, I'm not going to remind him. If he forgets it won't look good for him at the child support hearing where they will determine if he gets supervised or unsupervised visitation. I did decide to ask for a soberlink if they will order it, I'd love a few kid free hours but he's an alcoholic, he's going to drink if he can and the kids are too little. (Selfishly hoping he forgets that too.)

I've been feeling much better, my anxiety is, like magic, just, gone. My appetite is back, I'm not throwing up any more, I can sleep again. Overall life has much improved since I kicked him out. But of course I still miss him. 12 times a day something that I know he would think is funny happens and I want to share it with him. But he's distanced himself almost entirely, I was getting only a few word responses at the end. So I won't go back to that. I have done some research on attachment styles and he definitely has an avoidant attachment style, and actually the last time we didn't talk for a few weeks he had expressed that he wanted to be friends, and we did pretty well with it right up until he got mad that I had mentioned that he's an alcoholic on Facebook (everyone knows, I thought he was open about it) and he lost his mind, again. So overall I think going no contact would be a good thing. However, there's the kids. We got and decorated a tree yesterday. I of course wanted to send him pictures, but am sick of the lack of response. But does that matter? Theyre his kids, and when his other kids Mom's went no contact he totally dropped out of their lives, and went into a deep depression pretty quickly after. I know that's not on me, but still, it takes me no effort to send a picture here and there, whether he responds or not.

Had an emergency last night, and when he got the messege he offered to come over right away. Which he would have had to get a ride from the girlfriend, who has a young child who would have been in bed at that point. It was unnecessary so of course he didn't, but it was surprising to me that he responded within an hour, so he isn't as detached as he's playing at. Frankly I think he's still trying to manipulate his way home without getting sober which won't work. It really would be nice if all addicts were as similar as they used to think. This is just all so confusing.

trailmix

In reading what you have just written it doesn't seem confusing to me at all. The difference is, you know another side of him other than the one he is displaying now, I don't.

He is avoidant. The ultimate selfish comment he made was about the kids.

Actually children are about - children, not really about the parents. Not that parents shouldn't have their own hobbies and outside activities etc etc - but responsibility for the children (as you already know) lies solely with the people that put them here, period. He is willing to forgo that responsibility for his own selfish purposes. That speaks volumes.

Because it hurts his feelings. ok.

I don't think sending him pictures etc really makes a difference? You can go no contact with him from your side, doesn't mean you have to block him. If he asks for an update or some pictures - I would go ahead and send them then. Him not asking or asking about them or wanting to see them is all about him, you don't need to support that perhaps? It does nothing for the kids. If things stay as they are now, I think perhaps he's just going to keep distancing anyway.

Could well be. Also the whole gf vs fwb etc. That's kind of sounds like stuff he is making up, don't you think?

Hatguysgirl

Agreed, his selfishness has been, in all of the various addictions he has focused on in the past, the biggest issue. When he distanced himself from his other kids I didn't press it too much as they were in different states and I couldn't do anything about it other than get him into counseling when his depression got scary. This time he's relatively close, and I'm not giving him any pushback on the new girl or his choices, we get along just fine. So it feels to me like he knows home is where he wants to be except that he cannot indulge his addictions here any longer. So his selfishness and desire to continue doing whatever he wants is the only thing getting in his way.

I guess I struggle with the sending him pictures thing for 2 reasons, 1 it might look better in the court situation if I keep sending them and he chooses not to respond. And 2 he will be able to blame me for withdrawing, which would be true. I'm tired of being his 'bad guy' as I have been for the past few years. Which gives him (in his mind) a reason to drink.

The whole girlfriend/fwb thing is just totally confusing to me. Nothing about it seems legitimate. It feels like he's set it up in such a way that he thinks it will make me give in somehow to his garbage. Go figure her husband is due home at Christmas and he 'hasnt heard back' from apartments he's applied for. It seems to me like he will show up on Christmas Eve begging homelessness and can't he just stay one night (No, he can't, because he would never leave and I know it.)

It's mostly confusing to me because he is so constantly conflicted, and I rarely am. I make up my mind and generally stick with it, unless I have a good reason not to. I know he isn't rational, but it's so hard for my logical brain to understand that he will literally choose to not make a choice until he's out of choices.

sage1969

There are apps like ourfamilywizard that document communications. You can send email (it actually prescreens before you send and catches swear words and things that might sound unfriendly). There's a calendar function for exchanges and appointments. You can also cc messages to attorneys or other professionals.

If you use an app like this it will allow you to go no contact on everything else but the app, yet still document that you're making an effort to communicate when necessary.

trailmix

I think the email solution sage suggested is a great idea.

It seems normal for him to be conflicted, it's part of addiction. I shouldn't do this, this is bad for me and everyone else - BUT it's good for me right because I can't really cope without it and besides, if all these people didn't pressure me I probably wouldn't want to drink and and and. You can justify anything, drug addiction requires it, the addiction requires it.

It might seem more logical if you think of his addiction as an actual "thing". Yes, it's really part of him, but it's all an "addictive voice" that talks to him, on behalf of the addiction. The addictive voice doesn't hold alliance to anything else or anyone else and it doesn't ever have to be logical.

The only thing the addiction is interested in is getting the drug. Not where he will sleep, not about his children or his home, but yes, I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up when the husband returns.

Hatguysgirl

I do like the idea of the communication app, but that would require HIM also agreeing to it, and I doubt he'd be on board.

It's so hard to come to terms with the fact that he's so enmeshed in his addictions that we don't matter any more. I mean, I know we do. He loves us, he just can't see that he can fix it. Or doesn't want to. I hate waiting for the other shoe to drop. I don't want him to just show up and make me tell him I can't help him. I keep having dreams about it. During the day I'm mostly fine, I miss him but I know that he isn't who he was any more. But my dreams kill me. The ones where he shows up and asks to come home and I have to tell him no.

Today is the ultrasound and I haven't heard from him asking what time it is. So I'm assuming he forgot. Which is good for me as far as court, bad on an emotional level.

Giving birth alone is going to be rough.

Hawkeye13

I think you should make it very clear before he is in “crisis poor me no where to go mode” that he is absolutely not welcome in your home and he needs to make other arrangements.

Have you ever checked with an attorney about his rights to be in the home since that was his residence for years, and he may still ( on paper ) look like he’s living there.

Where I live, he actually would have a legal claim to be in home if no domestic violence was involved and he had not been formally evicted. I would check with your local women’s center about free or cheap legal advice on your rights and how to manage this for your and your kids protection.

Don’t assume addiction will do the right thing and honor your request to stay gone if there isn’t another soft landing for him. It very likely won’t.

Please take care of you and deal with this worry early and decisively—

trailmix

There is a third option - he can't fix it. Expecting him to fix this in some way, with the same brain and emotions and history that got him here in the first place is perhaps not realistic.

Yes, in his own way he cares, in his own way he probably does love all of you a lot. That doesn't actually help you or the kids at all though. He may not now (or possibly ever) be capable of the type of really true, deep love that you are thinking of or that you experience for someone. You can't fix that.

When you have been in a relationship with someone, there is consideration for their wants, needs etc - it's part of the partnership. It's going to take a change of mind from you to change the way things "have been". He's not actually part of your home anymore.

He gets on board with the email app or he doesn't get communication, that's up to him if he wants to participate, you would be doing your part.

I think you'll find if you keep leaving options open for him, you are going to be working on his whims. Like Hawkeye mentioned, taking control of the situation is key, like telling him he is not welcome when the husband gets home.

He doesn't get to make these decisions anymore - again, not part of the unit. His decision making is not for the good of the family, it's for the good of him and only him.

Now the decisions are up to you.

Hatguysgirl

He might have a legal leg to stand on had he not left a few days before I filed for divorce. However, it's my house that I bought a few years before we met. So had he stayed I could have had him evicted within 10 days, but that's the only consideration he would have gotten for having lived here. It's more that he is likely to pull at my heartstrings. I'm just not looking forward to it.

The thing is, he could fix our relationship if he chose to get sober. I don't think he will do that until he doesn't see any other way to not be homeless, or maybe he might realize that it's not just me he walked away from, but his kids too. I told him at the beginning, and I maintain that if he gets sober, and stays that way for a year, we can try again. I'm not willing to let him get sober here though. He claims he wants his own place, and has mentioned that he will get sober at that point. I call bs on it, but I won't write him off entirely. He might. It might be too late for us, I won't know unless it happens. Meanwhile I'm moving on with my life.

It's hard to know what's right where there are the kids involved though. I'm in contact with his other 2 and undoubtedly they have unresolved issues that stem from his lack of contact with them. I really don't want my kids to have the same issues (of course their moms talked badly about him which I won't do, and they also along with his parents blamed ME for his lack of contact instead of putting it on him, which probably also had an impact.) I guess my kids will know that he's an addict which his older kids likely did not know until recently. Yes he has no control over us and we of him, I guess I just feel bad for the kids.

trailmix

If he continues to drink, the kids are going to have a hard time dealing with him anyway. I was in contact with my Father all his life, except for a year when I stopped talking to him. Alcoholics make terrible parents.

I did resent him a lot of the time, I was also angry with him a lot of the time and I found him incredibly annoying when drunk. All I'm saying is that as long as he continues to drink, they aren't missing much. That said, all they need to know is that he loves them, he just sucks at showing it.

You seem to have a high capacity for someone treating you poorly, don't you think that? I can't remember if I asked if there were drugs/alcohol in your house when you were growing up.

He took off and abandoned you and his children. He is living with another woman who already has a husband who will be showing up soon. The friends with benefits thing is to deflect from you thinking he has any real "feelings" for her, so you might be more forgiving. But the truth is, he's living with her and sleeping with her. That's horrendous that he talks about that to you like that's any kind of normal.

He doesn't keep in contact, he isn't keen to see his children (so hard to let them go you know - which is selfish at best but is probably more BS).

So now his plan is to get his own place and get sober. uh huh. Because you can't get sober living with your wife and children or with your girlfriend. Makes no sense, but that's addiction.

Does he work, is there any reason why he can't get his own place?

Hatguysgirl

No, I was not raised with addiction in the home. But, mental illness was rampant. My mother is bat crap crazy. I have a lot of empathy for the mental health issues, because they are not and have never been a choice.

The thing is, my usual move in these situations IS to cut people off. I haven't spoken with my mother in 16 years, as she won't seek help. I don't suffer under any illusions that I can change anyone. But I have seen some miraculous turnarounds. I have one friend who ended up in jail and going through rehab and came out a functional member of society who is an excellent mother and now coworker (I knew her before during and now after her addiction it's a coincidence we work together now.) I have another friend who is schizophrenic, has been doing everything from alcohol to heroin to crack since high school. She was my best friend for several years in high school, she was the sweetest, most beautiful girl, but her mother introduced them to all the drugs at a very young age, and along with the mental health issues she ended up being sex trafficked, homeless, jailed, the whole 9 yards. Today she is medicated and sober. I know for those 2 people having friends who could check on them here and there was instrumental to getting them where they are today.

Frankly I don't care about the girlfriend. She is who he went to when I kicked him out and filed for divorce. I only know the details because I have asked, he's not bringing her up, and seems embarrassed when I bring her up. It was an inappropriate relationship that probably would have led to physical cheating had I not found out about it. But, she's definitely a symptom of his addictions, I feel quite bad for her knowing what is in store for her if he doesn't drop every single one of the addictions.

Which is my personal requirement for fixing anything is that he get sober (fully and for a year) somewhere else. Then he can try to get me back. He does work, but had been spending way too much money on a hotel room for several months, which is why he's at the girlfriends supposedly, to save up money for security deposit. By no means am I wanting him to come home, or get him back as he is.

We had been doing okay as friends, he was coming by to visit the kids and do activities with them for a while. It feels to me like he got upset that I wasn't worried about him staying with the girlfriend as it was right after he told me that that he started to withdraw. Which is why I'm questioning whether my normal cut him off reaction is right or not. I know him well enough to know that he is unlikely to make the first move at any point in the future. Which is on him I know, but it just feels like I'm doing it to punish him and I also worry about the kids.

He hasn't been a GOOD spouse, but he really has never been that bad either. The withdrawing has actually been the worst thing he has really done. Other than choosing his addictions over us, which, he's an addict, when given an ultimatum that's pretty much what they do. Even lying and hiding things is unusual for him and why I imagined the worst when I first discovered the inappropriately hidden 'friendship.' He's been useless, but he's never actually treated me too badly. I just am no longer willing to tolerate a useless, lazy spouse who spends way too much money on his addictions.

trailmix

I hear what you're saying. I also have huge empathy for people with mental health issues.

The lying and hiding, he may just have gotten sloppier as his alcoholism progressed, hard to say.

It's interesting what you mention about punishment, I wasn't actually thinking along those lines. I guess a "for instance" would be, that you cut your Mother off, not to punish her probably but to save yourself?

That's more along the line I was thinking with your ex. There is also enabling. On the one hand you talk about how he will look in court, in the other you hold his hand for him to get pictures of his children. So I guess I'm a bit confused.

I also don't think alcoholism/addiction deserves punishment. People with addictions punish themselves enough (and it's also never my place to punish anyone, with few exceptions).

You are just a scapegoat for blame. There is nothing you can do or say that will not make you one in his mind, nothing. You could be the epitome of the perfect Mother, Wife and employee and it wouldn't matter at all. Because it's really not about you.

As for the pulling away, he's staying with a woman, sleeping with her and abandoned his family - seems to me like that would be a good time to pull away.

Now, all of this is based on the presumption that any of this hurts you in any way. For instance, you send a picture, he doesn't respond. You tell him when the ultrasound is, he doesn't bother to follow up or show, you might invite him to see the kids somewhere, he doesn't respond or makes an excuse.

If those things hurt you, that's a stellar reason to distance yourself. It doesn't mean you are "giving up" on him, or that you wouldn't answer a call for a ride to rehab, it just means that you want the best for yourself and your children.

You can still love him, just from a distance.

Hatguysgirl

That's the thing, it really doesn't hurt me any more when he doesn't respond. It just annoys me. It annoys me enough I don't have any desire left to try and be his friend really, because I KNOW he's doing it to annoy me. Since he noticed that I haven't been sending messeges he's been sending daily texts asking about Christmas, claiming that his phone just hasn't been sending his responses and he hadn't been ignoring me, etc, also has been sending daily 'gifts' on an online game we used to play together and I have continued playing in his absence. I don't know, I guess I'll keep on no contact through the court date and hope he forgets about it, then see if he does any better if I resume sending pictures after.