Friends of the opposite sex in recovery and beyond for addicts?
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Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 14
Friends of the opposite sex in recovery and beyond for addicts?
Hey all -
I have mixed feelings about something and would like your opinion.
My wife is currently in rehab and making "amazing new friends of both the female and male gender". I'm happy for her and her progress and support her 100% in my actions and my heart.
However...
Like most of us here, I too have trust issues with my addict wife. I caught her making out with a girl a few months ago in a bathroom (she was inebriated and I have no reason to think she would cheat with a guy - I think she minimized the effect it had on our trust regardless of gender however), and she had lied on many occasions about purchasing and consumption of liquor. Just to give context; so I have trust issues with her.
I saw her today for lunch and she started talking about how she plans on hangin out and going to do things with this new group of friends. My initial reaction was, "Great! Yes, Id love to meet everyone and find some sober activities for us to do!" She responded that she meant solo and that her therapist said she needs to have her own life outside of marriage (which I wholeheartedly support and encourage) and I mentioned that I agreed and support that, but I would like to meet them 1st.
She said she wasn't sure how they would feel and that she's met some really good new friends of both male and female gender.
Here is where I am having an issue and I know its MY issue, but still confused. To be transparent I am not comfortable with my wife hanging out solo or otherwise with any new BFF guy(s) she may have met. I believe that this does not put our relationship in a good place and that she , even if she is unaware, is still very mentally fragile and extremely vulnerable. I understand that all the close proximity, hugging, sharing and the lack of any real outside world, can make people "feel' close.
I'm not sure why I couldn't meet these people so that I could have a level of comfort, as I feel it is at the very least, the respectable thing to do and I would as well. Also personally I would not have any new friends of the opposite sex if my wife was not comfortable with it. I think it's important to build hedges around your relationship and not put yourself in a position to potentially fail.
What do I do? I want her to have her own friends to enjoy things with, but as a married couple it's hard for me to wrap my head around "mysterious rehab friends that may not be ok with meeting me..."
Is this a bad situation for her to be in? Should I just look the other way? Not trying to have my wife 13th step here lol.
In my opinion any relationship is built on mutual respect - I am torn as to how to respect my wifes wishes while not feeling like she is potentially endangering herself for a relapse and our family by a potential 13th step situation.
I have mixed feelings about something and would like your opinion.
My wife is currently in rehab and making "amazing new friends of both the female and male gender". I'm happy for her and her progress and support her 100% in my actions and my heart.
However...
Like most of us here, I too have trust issues with my addict wife. I caught her making out with a girl a few months ago in a bathroom (she was inebriated and I have no reason to think she would cheat with a guy - I think she minimized the effect it had on our trust regardless of gender however), and she had lied on many occasions about purchasing and consumption of liquor. Just to give context; so I have trust issues with her.
I saw her today for lunch and she started talking about how she plans on hangin out and going to do things with this new group of friends. My initial reaction was, "Great! Yes, Id love to meet everyone and find some sober activities for us to do!" She responded that she meant solo and that her therapist said she needs to have her own life outside of marriage (which I wholeheartedly support and encourage) and I mentioned that I agreed and support that, but I would like to meet them 1st.
She said she wasn't sure how they would feel and that she's met some really good new friends of both male and female gender.
Here is where I am having an issue and I know its MY issue, but still confused. To be transparent I am not comfortable with my wife hanging out solo or otherwise with any new BFF guy(s) she may have met. I believe that this does not put our relationship in a good place and that she , even if she is unaware, is still very mentally fragile and extremely vulnerable. I understand that all the close proximity, hugging, sharing and the lack of any real outside world, can make people "feel' close.
I'm not sure why I couldn't meet these people so that I could have a level of comfort, as I feel it is at the very least, the respectable thing to do and I would as well. Also personally I would not have any new friends of the opposite sex if my wife was not comfortable with it. I think it's important to build hedges around your relationship and not put yourself in a position to potentially fail.
What do I do? I want her to have her own friends to enjoy things with, but as a married couple it's hard for me to wrap my head around "mysterious rehab friends that may not be ok with meeting me..."
Is this a bad situation for her to be in? Should I just look the other way? Not trying to have my wife 13th step here lol.
In my opinion any relationship is built on mutual respect - I am torn as to how to respect my wifes wishes while not feeling like she is potentially endangering herself for a relapse and our family by a potential 13th step situation.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,646
I agree with you about all of this.
It's always best to look, I think, in these situations, on how it affects you, not her. She may well be fragile and vulnerable, but you can't protect her from herself (just like you couldn't protect her or control her alcoholism).
You shouldn't trust this, in my opinion. There is zero reason why she shouldn't introduce her new friends to you, that I can think of. She is excluding you, whatever her reasons are.
I would tell her it doesn't make sense to you and you aren't comfortable with it. Yes, it's a very good idea for her to have her own pursuits, everyone should, however excluding you from her social group is just odd.
This whole thing is a huge red flag.
It's always best to look, I think, in these situations, on how it affects you, not her. She may well be fragile and vulnerable, but you can't protect her from herself (just like you couldn't protect her or control her alcoholism).
You shouldn't trust this, in my opinion. There is zero reason why she shouldn't introduce her new friends to you, that I can think of. She is excluding you, whatever her reasons are.
I would tell her it doesn't make sense to you and you aren't comfortable with it. Yes, it's a very good idea for her to have her own pursuits, everyone should, however excluding you from her social group is just odd.
This whole thing is a huge red flag.
sage
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 704
This is a tough one, and really depends on what you've both agreed upon as far as whether monogamous or polyamorous . . . male, female "friends," that does not really matter if you haven't agreed on what your relationship will look like going forward.
I know that for me, I have had to make conscious decisions about how I manage *all* friendships in recovery (from both alcohol and codependency), whether platonic, with a sponsor, or romantic. Each of you will have to make conscious decisions in this way; worrying about what your partner is doing in rehab will only cause you stress. Until you can have these types of conversations together, all you can do is assess and work on your own various relationships.
I know that for me, I have had to make conscious decisions about how I manage *all* friendships in recovery (from both alcohol and codependency), whether platonic, with a sponsor, or romantic. Each of you will have to make conscious decisions in this way; worrying about what your partner is doing in rehab will only cause you stress. Until you can have these types of conversations together, all you can do is assess and work on your own various relationships.
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
Red flags all over it. I think you already know this but wanted confirmation and support with it.
Is this the life you want? Are you attending Al-anon to work on your inner issues? That would help you to get clarity.
I expect Codependent No More by Melody Beattie has been recommended to you, that is well worth reading. Again it would give you some clarity.
Trust your gut instinct also base her current and future behaviours on her past ones unless she has put lots of hard work into changing and working her program.
Is this the life you want? Are you attending Al-anon to work on your inner issues? That would help you to get clarity.
I expect Codependent No More by Melody Beattie has been recommended to you, that is well worth reading. Again it would give you some clarity.
Trust your gut instinct also base her current and future behaviours on her past ones unless she has put lots of hard work into changing and working her program.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Jason......I can understand your feelings and worries about this. I think that these kinds of fears are natural.
Being in the rehab facility is like being on a "special island" in many ways. (my words, lol). As yousay---close together and sharing deep feelings, etc.
But, then, the members disperse, for the most part, back to their various geographic places of residence---and their own "home" AA groups, which are recommended to be same sex groups, generally. A return to the "real" world, one woulld say.
As you, already seem to be aware of----a newly sober person's emotions can be all over the place and be a very new experience for them----and, very confusing to them. They may go through a period of questioning everything and be inclined to make impulsive decisions.
Jason---I am not a member of AA--so I am just telling you what my lone experience has been, around such folks. It is recommended, but not an actual rule--that one shoulld refrain frm making life-changing decisions for the first year, when possible.
I would strongly suggest that you take this recommendation seriously. This gives you some time to just see how things actually do unfold. Some things are just impossible to know---by either one of you, right now.
I suggest that you back way--way--off, right now. Give her all of the space she wants---free from your judgement or 'monitoring". As, she would probably take it as just that---"controlling" her!
It is not uncommon for those who are newly sobering to become totally engrossed in their AA group---almos to the exclusion of everything else in their lives---for a while.
Even in the extreme---rehab romances or 13th stepping in AA has about as much lasting as an ice cube in the Sahara Desert.
What I am trying to say, is, that time and space is on Your side. I would ay to give her all of the time and space she wants, for at least one year, and then re-evaluate.
Lots of changes casn take place between now and then. Nothing is written in stone.....yet....
This means, of course, that you don't just sit o n a shelf, waiting----it is absolutely imperative that you throw yourself into a programof your own and focus attention on yourself and your own welfare and that of the choldren. You need as much support as she does.
Early recovery i really, really hard. No doubt about it. This is not going to be easy for you----but, you have no choice but to fadcee the future and prepare yourself to deal with any changes that might come.
Being in the rehab facility is like being on a "special island" in many ways. (my words, lol). As yousay---close together and sharing deep feelings, etc.
But, then, the members disperse, for the most part, back to their various geographic places of residence---and their own "home" AA groups, which are recommended to be same sex groups, generally. A return to the "real" world, one woulld say.
As you, already seem to be aware of----a newly sober person's emotions can be all over the place and be a very new experience for them----and, very confusing to them. They may go through a period of questioning everything and be inclined to make impulsive decisions.
Jason---I am not a member of AA--so I am just telling you what my lone experience has been, around such folks. It is recommended, but not an actual rule--that one shoulld refrain frm making life-changing decisions for the first year, when possible.
I would strongly suggest that you take this recommendation seriously. This gives you some time to just see how things actually do unfold. Some things are just impossible to know---by either one of you, right now.
I suggest that you back way--way--off, right now. Give her all of the space she wants---free from your judgement or 'monitoring". As, she would probably take it as just that---"controlling" her!
It is not uncommon for those who are newly sobering to become totally engrossed in their AA group---almos to the exclusion of everything else in their lives---for a while.
Even in the extreme---rehab romances or 13th stepping in AA has about as much lasting as an ice cube in the Sahara Desert.
What I am trying to say, is, that time and space is on Your side. I would ay to give her all of the time and space she wants, for at least one year, and then re-evaluate.
Lots of changes casn take place between now and then. Nothing is written in stone.....yet....
This means, of course, that you don't just sit o n a shelf, waiting----it is absolutely imperative that you throw yourself into a programof your own and focus attention on yourself and your own welfare and that of the choldren. You need as much support as she does.
Early recovery i really, really hard. No doubt about it. This is not going to be easy for you----but, you have no choice but to fadcee the future and prepare yourself to deal with any changes that might come.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Yeah, what dandylion said with one caveat: That doesn't mean that you have to be okay with her meeting privately with people outside of her meetings. At any time you can pull the plug and walk away.
What you can't do (and never could, to be fair) is give her ultimatums or rules to live by and expect that to work to change her. If/when she starts stepping way outside your personal comfort zone it's time to do that re-evalutation - you don't have to wait a year. She may do something nuts right away. If she does, it wouldn't have made any difference if you had told her not to. You aren't her dad and she's of legal age (I'm assuming...)
Al Anon or therapy would/will really help you clarify what you can and can't live with and how to express that to her.
What you can't do (and never could, to be fair) is give her ultimatums or rules to live by and expect that to work to change her. If/when she starts stepping way outside your personal comfort zone it's time to do that re-evalutation - you don't have to wait a year. She may do something nuts right away. If she does, it wouldn't have made any difference if you had told her not to. You aren't her dad and she's of legal age (I'm assuming...)
Al Anon or therapy would/will really help you clarify what you can and can't live with and how to express that to her.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 1
Hmmm
Jason - Im glad I ran across this, I have heard and seen this play out on many occasions and your feelings are very valid. (I have a Masters in Counseling however no longer practice) so may be able to help shed some light on this.
Our values and needs become blurred and enmeshed in codependency; we don’t know where we end and the other person begins. As such, most clinical therapist will start a new client off with the "setting boundaries" speech. It's important to understand that it is about being "self-focused" is not about being selfish. It's about self-care.
The 1st thing I ask a client was "what does this boundaries accomplish?"
It appears that you both recognize, value and understand her need for independence. This is wonderful. However I do agree with you that she should not be endeavoring to forge bonds with members of the opposite sex as this can and often does lead to issues. She is likely feeling very close to these people and although there may not be a physical cheating, per say, there is also emotional cheating. Your spouse should be the main person to whom you confide in, and when a newly sober person beings to further push that door open outside of a group therapy session, it can become very dangerous for a relationship. I professionally always advise against.
Without having much of the context of your relationship with our wife, I can say the fact that you are even here posting about it shows you have a deep level of care for her. I would hope that she would also show this same level of care for you and ensure your feelings on the subject are able to be understood.
Focus on your own boundaries. If she decides to engage in relationships outside of your comfort zone, then you must ask yourself if is a relationship you are willing to stay in.
Our values and needs become blurred and enmeshed in codependency; we don’t know where we end and the other person begins. As such, most clinical therapist will start a new client off with the "setting boundaries" speech. It's important to understand that it is about being "self-focused" is not about being selfish. It's about self-care.
The 1st thing I ask a client was "what does this boundaries accomplish?"
It appears that you both recognize, value and understand her need for independence. This is wonderful. However I do agree with you that she should not be endeavoring to forge bonds with members of the opposite sex as this can and often does lead to issues. She is likely feeling very close to these people and although there may not be a physical cheating, per say, there is also emotional cheating. Your spouse should be the main person to whom you confide in, and when a newly sober person beings to further push that door open outside of a group therapy session, it can become very dangerous for a relationship. I professionally always advise against.
Without having much of the context of your relationship with our wife, I can say the fact that you are even here posting about it shows you have a deep level of care for her. I would hope that she would also show this same level of care for you and ensure your feelings on the subject are able to be understood.
Focus on your own boundaries. If she decides to engage in relationships outside of your comfort zone, then you must ask yourself if is a relationship you are willing to stay in.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by BeenThereB4 
Jason - Im glad I ran across this, I have heard and seen this play out on many occasions and your feelings are very valid. (I have a Masters in Counseling however no longer practice) so may be able to help shed some light on this.
Our values and needs become blurred and enmeshed in codependency; we don’t know where we end and the other person begins. As such, most clinical therapist will start a new client off with the "setting boundaries" speech. It's important to understand that it is about being "self-focused" is not about being selfish. It's about self-care.
The 1st thing I ask a client was "what does this boundaries accomplish?"
It appears that you both recognize, value and understand her need for independence. This is wonderful. However I do agree with you that she should not be endeavoring to forge bonds with members of the opposite sex as this can and often does lead to issues. She is likely feeling very close to these people and although there may not be a physical cheating, per say, there is also emotional cheating. Your spouse should be the main person to whom you confide in, and when a newly sober person beings to further push that door open outside of a group therapy session, it can become very dangerous for a relationship. I professionally always advise against.
Without having much of the context of your relationship with our wife, I can say the fact that you are even here posting about it shows you have a deep level of care for her. I would hope that she would also show this same level of care for you and ensure your feelings on the subject are able to be understood.
Focus on your own boundaries. If she decides to engage in relationships outside of your comfort zone, then you must ask yourself if is a relationship you are willing to stay in.
Our values and needs become blurred and enmeshed in codependency; we don’t know where we end and the other person begins. As such, most clinical therapist will start a new client off with the "setting boundaries" speech. It's important to understand that it is about being "self-focused" is not about being selfish. It's about self-care.
The 1st thing I ask a client was "what does this boundaries accomplish?"
It appears that you both recognize, value and understand her need for independence. This is wonderful. However I do agree with you that she should not be endeavoring to forge bonds with members of the opposite sex as this can and often does lead to issues. She is likely feeling very close to these people and although there may not be a physical cheating, per say, there is also emotional cheating. Your spouse should be the main person to whom you confide in, and when a newly sober person beings to further push that door open outside of a group therapy session, it can become very dangerous for a relationship. I professionally always advise against.
Without having much of the context of your relationship with our wife, I can say the fact that you are even here posting about it shows you have a deep level of care for her. I would hope that she would also show this same level of care for you and ensure your feelings on the subject are able to be understood.
Focus on your own boundaries. If she decides to engage in relationships outside of your comfort zone, then you must ask yourself if is a relationship you are willing to stay in.
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,699
Originally Posted by Jason0323
I am not comfortable with my wife hanging out solo or otherwise with any new BFF guy(s) she may have met. I believe that this does not put our relationship in a good place and that she, even if she is unaware, is still very mentally fragile and extremely vulnerable.......
Is this a bad situation for her to be in? Should I just look the other way? Not trying to have my wife 13th step here lol.
Is this a bad situation for her to be in? Should I just look the other way? Not trying to have my wife 13th step here lol.
If she is unwilling to give you that understanding it does NOT mean she is going to cheat, but it indicates little empathy for the pain you are experiencing secondary to her addiction. Perhaps that will evolve as she gets a little more recovery under her belt. AA's 12 Steps center on humbly admitting our own faults, looking at our own part in conflicts, accepting personal responsibility for mistakes, and going to great lengths to make amends for those mistakes.
In my life, (female, 40, 3 kids, medical professional, almost 5 months clean and sober from an addiction to prescription pain medication) I take my partner's concerns and requests VERY seriously. I am the person who broke trust (no cheating, but I certainly lied about my drug use), so, if I want restoration of trust, I owe him the work of restoration. He requests that I avoid giving rides or my phone number to men from my AA group, and he would like for me to introduce him to my group whenever possible. This is totally reasonable to me.
That's a lot of typing to say: You can't make her do what you want her to do. She will do what she wants in regard to alcohol, friends, and life. You can tell her your desires, watch her actions, and (in no hurry) decide if you are happy with your partnership.
I know that the process of letting go is SO difficult. You are doing great! Your needs and desires are totally valid, and I pray that her recovery flourishes so that she can more fully appreciate your love!
Take care.
-TC
Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 170
Jason,
It’s a wild ride, hang in there.
Some of these folks in rehab are going to be alcoholics, others heroine, oxy, meth, coke and god knows whatever else. For years, decades even. I wouldn’t trust one as far as I could throw them. At least not until they’ve genuinely regrown a conscience and done the work as it’s called. It takes time and in that time things may fall apart. You never know but you need to be prepared.
As I’m sure you’ve figured out addicts are master manipulators, liars and a whole slew of other colorful metaphors including selfish. Egomaniacs with an inferiority complex. External validation is like a drug to many, because shame is a big component of addiction.
Here they are in rehab telling their sob stories and how much they love their new “friends” after their first group session. It’s gross. Be wary.
With that said the advice above from other posters is sound. Protect yourself and your heart and expect weird $h1t.
It’s a wild ride, hang in there.
Some of these folks in rehab are going to be alcoholics, others heroine, oxy, meth, coke and god knows whatever else. For years, decades even. I wouldn’t trust one as far as I could throw them. At least not until they’ve genuinely regrown a conscience and done the work as it’s called. It takes time and in that time things may fall apart. You never know but you need to be prepared.
As I’m sure you’ve figured out addicts are master manipulators, liars and a whole slew of other colorful metaphors including selfish. Egomaniacs with an inferiority complex. External validation is like a drug to many, because shame is a big component of addiction.
Here they are in rehab telling their sob stories and how much they love their new “friends” after their first group session. It’s gross. Be wary.
With that said the advice above from other posters is sound. Protect yourself and your heart and expect weird $h1t.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: maine
Posts: 1,548
I understand about close new friends sharing a similar experience. I may be the outlier here, but here's the part that's standing out to me. *Why* is it a priority to keep the new folks and you from meeting? To me it doesn't make sense unless they're under the impression the marriage is over and will be surprised you're still in the picture?
Knowing someone's married doesn't stop people either, I know.
Knowing someone's married doesn't stop people either, I know.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by trailmix
Jason, how are you doing?
I just need to take it one day at a time. I will express my feelings to her (we have already spoken about this in a very limited capacity because I do not want to have her focusing on anything outside of being present in the moment while in rehab) in that I am not comfortable with her , outside of groups, hanging out with males or even a mixed group without me. Unfortunately there is broken trust. I do strongly believe she needs to have her own life outside of marriage, but I have read too many things that speak to it not being positive for our relationship for her to foster close intimate connections with the opposite sex. She does not hang out with guys she knew before rehab, and I am not comfortable with her doing so now.
I have faith that we can work through this. Everything is amplified right now as she is not home and I have limited access to her. SO our "closeness" is lacking.
Thank again all for the kind words and insight. At the end of the day I need to focus on what I can and cannot accept and we both need to respect each others boundaries. If she decides not to respect my feelings on this - then I can chose how to respond.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,646
I'm glad to hear you are in a better place about all of it.
You know when you said originally:
This is a common pattern from what I have read. Person goes to rehab, can't deal with spouse, drops out of contact and calls others (usually family) instead.
Attorney or not, I still don't get the connection. Obviously you have some understanding and compassion for addiction. Otherwise you wouldn't be supporting her in her attempt to get sober! I would think these other adults (new friends) would understand this.
Yes, it can go either way, they will stay in touch or that will mostly fall by the wayside as she steps back in to regular life. Some will relapse, unfortunately, it's inevitable probably. As long as she doesn't become their support when her sobriety is so new - codependency might kick in.
Anyway, those are just a couple of things I thought of, but you are right, you don't control this situation. These are just some things for you to look out for, for yourself.
I hope you will keep posting and keep us updated on how you are doing.
You know when you said originally:
that she would not call me to chat today, but did cal her parents - who also advised how great she sounds.
Attorney or not, I still don't get the connection. Obviously you have some understanding and compassion for addiction. Otherwise you wouldn't be supporting her in her attempt to get sober! I would think these other adults (new friends) would understand this.
Yes, it can go either way, they will stay in touch or that will mostly fall by the wayside as she steps back in to regular life. Some will relapse, unfortunately, it's inevitable probably. As long as she doesn't become their support when her sobriety is so new - codependency might kick in.
Anyway, those are just a couple of things I thought of, but you are right, you don't control this situation. These are just some things for you to look out for, for yourself.
I hope you will keep posting and keep us updated on how you are doing.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,909
She says I can meet her new friends but she just wasn't sure if they would be comfortable with it.
When I am out and about with my wife or a friend and we run into someone I know from AA, if the question of where we met comes up, I just shrug my shoulders and say "Our county is a small one, who knows?"
Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 122
Apologies in advance as I am sick with covid so skimmed a bit. The thing I wanted to share was my own experience of hanging out with my ex's rehab buddies. Whilst I understand the initial excitement of your wife finding her own tribe and wanting her to have that support, you really cannot fathom their dynamics nor will you truly integrate.
Believe I tried and they were all very nice people but as a non alcoholic/addict, alot of their "jokes" and "banter" is something you and I will never understand. If anything it just wound me up even more. One particular instance of me hanging out one saturday was when one of my ex's rehab friends brought his children for a festival downtown. I knew this guy's whole history (cocaine, sex, marujuana, you name it) and I liked the guy but something about seeing him with his kids just sparked a rage in me and I just couldn't speak to that guy again. He actually relapsed within a month according to my ex.
Your wife needs her tribe but do not think for a second you will get it (and nor should you). There is a reason why people say AA meetings are often the fun side of the coin, whereas AlAnon is more morose.
Apologies in advance if grammar/ spelling all over the place. I'll edit when less sick!
Believe I tried and they were all very nice people but as a non alcoholic/addict, alot of their "jokes" and "banter" is something you and I will never understand. If anything it just wound me up even more. One particular instance of me hanging out one saturday was when one of my ex's rehab friends brought his children for a festival downtown. I knew this guy's whole history (cocaine, sex, marujuana, you name it) and I liked the guy but something about seeing him with his kids just sparked a rage in me and I just couldn't speak to that guy again. He actually relapsed within a month according to my ex.
Your wife needs her tribe but do not think for a second you will get it (and nor should you). There is a reason why people say AA meetings are often the fun side of the coin, whereas AlAnon is more morose.
Apologies in advance if grammar/ spelling all over the place. I'll edit when less sick!
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