I'm turning cold
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Join Date: Aug 2021
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I'm turning cold
I've so often said that I no longer recognize my son but I'm starting to find myself unrecognizable as well. I was so happy when he finally got 30 days behind him, but he threw it away again, drinking on day 38. So all that hope I had left pretty quickly when I had to unlock his bedroom door because I heard him throwing up and was afraid of what degree he was passed out. How did this even become my life? So hungover son thought the day would consist of laying around because he didn't feel well--and I passive-aggressively gave him small tasks that required him to get up and move all day long and he did them all because you know he felt the typical guilt and shame following drinking. I feel almost nothing about that---and that is not who I've ever been. I'm glad he felt whatever he felt yesterday--he should. I hope he remembers it--but he won't. Worst of all, today we get to talk about it because I refuse to talk to him about anything while he's under the influence and considering he drank 1/2 of a half gallon of rum the night before, I cannot discern when he is no longer under the influence (on some level). I told him not to bring alcohol into my house and every time he has drank over the course of the last 4 months he has done it in my house. He waits until I go to bed. This time, the next morning, he just poured the remainder out knowing that I would insist on it and I swear to you I think his alcoholic brain gives him kudos for this crap. It makes me at least as angry if not more so as it is a glaring example of saying he knows and willfully chooses to defy the thing I insisted upon. He was once the person you could depend upon in every situation. He was once so kind and considerate. He was once so responsible and conscientious. It is so difficult to look upon the absence of all of that in your child. Then I look at myself and I wonder who this person is that just turns cold. I wonder who this person is that doesn't know what to do anymore. Maybe it's so I don't just explode, I don't know. So I guess today I break him down--that's sounds horrible. But what else is there to do? I've sat here and watched him self-sabotage for weeks, taking absolutely zero responsibility for anything, setting himself up for this---and then watching him show zero remorse for it (almost like what else could I do?). His reason? He was feeling a lot of anxiety. Yeah, buddy, I'll bet you were--a lot of anxiety about not drinking.
I'm just venting. Thank you for a safe place to do that. Most days I can choke it down---some days I just can't. Yesterday I did because that's how I got through the day. Today, knowing this conversation is looming, and knowing that I could pity him and accept it all, or scream at him and neither would make a bit of difference, just makes me physically ill.
I'm just venting. Thank you for a safe place to do that. Most days I can choke it down---some days I just can't. Yesterday I did because that's how I got through the day. Today, knowing this conversation is looming, and knowing that I could pity him and accept it all, or scream at him and neither would make a bit of difference, just makes me physically ill.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 9,005
Ugh Lynn, you all with alcoholic parents or children are in an entirely next level of suffering with your Qualifiers. I understand, unfortunately, being passive aggressive. I do it all the time.
Are you doing anything to help yourself detach and focus on yourself?
Are you doing anything to help yourself detach and focus on yourself?
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Lynn.......As I have shared with you, before....I know from personal experience how much the disappointment can make a person go blind with the Anger that it stirs---anger at the feeeling of sheer helplesness. The feeling of being backed into a corner, with no effective leverage or power to bring any change or peace of mind.
As you seem to recognize---Anger often protects oneself from the more painful feelings underneath of it---like fear and sadness and/or frustration and helplessness.
I, myself, reached the point that I knew that I could no longer tolerate alcoholism---the consequences of that alcoholism---under my own roof.
I learned in the hardest way that I had no control over my son---my alcoholic that I loved soo much----and, that I could no longer live in that mind torment.
I reached my absolute limit---really, beyond my limits---it was "killing" me---and, it wasn't helping him, either.
Like my son, and all other alcoholics---your son has a disease. I think it would help iyou if you understood more about the disease. I am not saying this to insult you or criticise you. I hope that you can hear that I am trying to help you.
As they say---this is now "above your pay grade". There is a time to reach out to the professionals and those with the experience, for help.
I am aware that you son has a dual diagnosis....and, I think it would be helpful to seek out those who are experienced in dual diagnoses----and, to learn more about dual diagnosis and the resources that can help you (and him) to deal with this.
This is simply too hard to walk alone---nobody can do it without support and help of the right kind.
As you seem to recognize---Anger often protects oneself from the more painful feelings underneath of it---like fear and sadness and/or frustration and helplessness.
I, myself, reached the point that I knew that I could no longer tolerate alcoholism---the consequences of that alcoholism---under my own roof.
I learned in the hardest way that I had no control over my son---my alcoholic that I loved soo much----and, that I could no longer live in that mind torment.
I reached my absolute limit---really, beyond my limits---it was "killing" me---and, it wasn't helping him, either.
Like my son, and all other alcoholics---your son has a disease. I think it would help iyou if you understood more about the disease. I am not saying this to insult you or criticise you. I hope that you can hear that I am trying to help you.
As they say---this is now "above your pay grade". There is a time to reach out to the professionals and those with the experience, for help.
I am aware that you son has a dual diagnosis....and, I think it would be helpful to seek out those who are experienced in dual diagnoses----and, to learn more about dual diagnosis and the resources that can help you (and him) to deal with this.
This is simply too hard to walk alone---nobody can do it without support and help of the right kind.
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Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by Bekindalways 
Ugh Lynn, you all with alcoholic parents or children are in an entirely next level of suffering with your Qualifiers. I understand, unfortunately, being passive aggressive. I do it all the time.
Are you doing anything to help yourself detach and focus on yourself?
Are you doing anything to help yourself detach and focus on yourself?
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Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by dandylion
Lynn.......As I have shared with you, before....I know from personal experience how much the disappointment can make a person go blind with the Anger that it stirs---anger at the feeeling of sheer helplesness. The feeling of being backed into a corner, with no effective leverage or power to bring any change or peace of mind.
As you seem to recognize---Anger often protects oneself from the more painful feelings underneath of it---like fear and sadness and/or frustration and helplessness.
I, myself, reached the point that I knew that I could no longer tolerate alcoholism---the consequences of that alcoholism---under my own roof.
I learned in the hardest way that I had no control over my son---my alcoholic that I loved soo much----and, that I could no longer live in that mind torment.
I reached my absolute limit---really, beyond my limits---it was "killing" me---and, it wasn't helping him, either.
Like my son, and all other alcoholics---your son has a disease. I think it would help iyou if you understood more about the disease. I am not saying this to insult you or criticise you. I hope that you can hear that I am trying to help you.
As they say---this is now "above your pay grade". There is a time to reach out to the professionals and those with the experience, for help.
I am aware that you son has a dual diagnosis....and, I think it would be helpful to seek out those who are experienced in dual diagnoses----and, to learn more about dual diagnosis and the resources that can help you (and him) to deal with this.
This is simply too hard to walk alone---nobody can do it without support and help of the right kind.
As you seem to recognize---Anger often protects oneself from the more painful feelings underneath of it---like fear and sadness and/or frustration and helplessness.
I, myself, reached the point that I knew that I could no longer tolerate alcoholism---the consequences of that alcoholism---under my own roof.
I learned in the hardest way that I had no control over my son---my alcoholic that I loved soo much----and, that I could no longer live in that mind torment.
I reached my absolute limit---really, beyond my limits---it was "killing" me---and, it wasn't helping him, either.
Like my son, and all other alcoholics---your son has a disease. I think it would help iyou if you understood more about the disease. I am not saying this to insult you or criticise you. I hope that you can hear that I am trying to help you.
As they say---this is now "above your pay grade". There is a time to reach out to the professionals and those with the experience, for help.
I am aware that you son has a dual diagnosis....and, I think it would be helpful to seek out those who are experienced in dual diagnoses----and, to learn more about dual diagnosis and the resources that can help you (and him) to deal with this.
This is simply too hard to walk alone---nobody can do it without support and help of the right kind.
I talked to him yesterday. I didn't sugar coat any of it. I was rough on him at times. I sobbed for a while. He did too. I asked a lot of questions this time. He answered a lot of them with a version of what should I do. I told him it didn't matter what I think---it matters what he is willing to do. While the connection, the communication, the honesty, all felt good---some semblance of my son I guess--only one thing lingers in my head and that is that he still believes that one day he can drink like a normal person. I told him about all that I've read here and other places about how destructive that belief is, and I told him that I believe that is a huge barrier to his sobriety because the notion of one day his relationship with alcohol is going to be normal makes it a lot easier to drink now. But...his headspace still isn't right. This is going to happen again. I'm dreading today as his brother is hurt and angry. He was sick yesterday but fired his warning shot that he intended to talk to him today. That's not going to go well. Worst of all, I see that I've taught him codependency well---he's trying to control the situation.
So yeah, helpless---that's how I feel. I hate it.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Lynn......I will tell you a little story----lol, and I hope it doesn't bore people, too much. At one time, when I was much younger, I got my first job in the department of psychiatry in a new large hospital. having in medical field for a few years---I thought I knew all about alcoholism. True, I did know the visible signs and symptoms on the human body---and, what to do when a person was in DTs, and pancreatitis, and having seizures, etc.....
In this new department, there was a large population of alcoholics being treated for psychological and emotional issues. Fortunately, there were several long recovering alcoholics on the staff--from counselors to psychiatrists. They had many years in their recovering process.
What I learned is that I didn't know JACK about the dynamics within the alcoholic brain and mind and heart and soul and their development. In addition, I didn't know anything about the dynamics within the families of the alcoholic. I had sooo much to learn---and I was fortunate to have these seasoned recovering alcoholics and professionals to take my hand and teach me.
I do get it that you have done a lot of reading. That is not a bad thing---in fact, I am always pushing that "knowledgeis power" on this forum.
For example---not to criticise you----that you don't know everything about the dynamcs within the alcoholic and loved ones. It is my opinion that taking a position of "lecturing" your son and doling out "punishments" to him....as a result you your (and your other son) hurt and disappointment is counter-productive to your son and to your own self. Just pouring more gasoline on the flame, so to speak. Actually drawing the "battle lines" even more distinctly. While having these "come to Jesus" sessions may give you and his brother some immediate relief of venting your anger---the overall result, in my opinion is not progress.
For the record, let me say that I do get it about having an overly fulll plate of domestic responsibilities. At one time, I was a single parent of three small children, while going to a graduate level program (to become a Physician Assistant)....with no help at all from their divorced father....kand living on food stamps and some public assistance. Wow--those were the days!! I really had to learn, the hard way, how to think outside of the box---and, to realine the priorities that were the most important to our overall survival. I was operating without a net---
So, Lynn, I have great empathy and understanding of the kinds of daily pressures that you are probably feeling.....
Maybe, it would help you to not look at the whole mountain ---as that can be too overwhelming---and begin to look at where you can make some baby steps---or, even, some micro mini-steps.
To begin climbing, you don't have to know where every step is---you just need to know where the first tep is.....
In this new department, there was a large population of alcoholics being treated for psychological and emotional issues. Fortunately, there were several long recovering alcoholics on the staff--from counselors to psychiatrists. They had many years in their recovering process.
What I learned is that I didn't know JACK about the dynamics within the alcoholic brain and mind and heart and soul and their development. In addition, I didn't know anything about the dynamics within the families of the alcoholic. I had sooo much to learn---and I was fortunate to have these seasoned recovering alcoholics and professionals to take my hand and teach me.
I do get it that you have done a lot of reading. That is not a bad thing---in fact, I am always pushing that "knowledgeis power" on this forum.
For example---not to criticise you----that you don't know everything about the dynamcs within the alcoholic and loved ones. It is my opinion that taking a position of "lecturing" your son and doling out "punishments" to him....as a result you your (and your other son) hurt and disappointment is counter-productive to your son and to your own self. Just pouring more gasoline on the flame, so to speak. Actually drawing the "battle lines" even more distinctly. While having these "come to Jesus" sessions may give you and his brother some immediate relief of venting your anger---the overall result, in my opinion is not progress.
For the record, let me say that I do get it about having an overly fulll plate of domestic responsibilities. At one time, I was a single parent of three small children, while going to a graduate level program (to become a Physician Assistant)....with no help at all from their divorced father....kand living on food stamps and some public assistance. Wow--those were the days!! I really had to learn, the hard way, how to think outside of the box---and, to realine the priorities that were the most important to our overall survival. I was operating without a net---
So, Lynn, I have great empathy and understanding of the kinds of daily pressures that you are probably feeling.....
Maybe, it would help you to not look at the whole mountain ---as that can be too overwhelming---and begin to look at where you can make some baby steps---or, even, some micro mini-steps.
To begin climbing, you don't have to know where every step is---you just need to know where the first tep is.....
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
ch I understand your caring for your senior dog is his waning years. I have been through this time---most recently, with my aging wonderful German Shepard. It is hard for me to even type this without the tears blinding me. I know the love that takes and the time and work it takes to properly attend to them.
I have no words that I can say except that I know what it is like.
I tried so hard to remember that it was my Priviledge to bring him comfort and love---that helped me to be a bit stronger, withing my self.
Every time I have gone through this, I have said...."No more animals for me---it hurts too much when they pass".
Guess what---the Universe always ends up sending another one to my door step!!!
I have no words that I can say except that I know what it is like.
I tried so hard to remember that it was my Priviledge to bring him comfort and love---that helped me to be a bit stronger, withing my self.
Every time I have gone through this, I have said...."No more animals for me---it hurts too much when they pass".
Guess what---the Universe always ends up sending another one to my door step!!!
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
Lynn, I hope you are attending alanon?? I understand you are busy, but I really
believe this needs to be a priority in your life now, and your other son needs alateen.
Having a husband, daughter, and son who are all in recovery from alcohol, the
question that comes to mind when I read your post is what is the consequence
for your son when he crosses your boundary?
Dandylion's post is gospel truth to me and the path I went down that almost crushed me....and
absolutely did not help my loved ones one single bit, but made everything even worse.
"For example---not to criticise you----that you don't know everything about the dynamcs within the alcoholic and loved ones. It is my opinion that taking a position of "lecturing" your son and doling out "punishments" to him....as a result you your (and your other son) hurt and disappointment is counter-productive to your son and to your own self. Just pouring more gasoline on the flame, so to speak. Actually drawing the "battle lines" even more distinctly. While having these "come to Jesus" sessions may give you and his brother some immediate relief of venting your anger---the overall result, in my opinion is not progress."
believe this needs to be a priority in your life now, and your other son needs alateen.
Having a husband, daughter, and son who are all in recovery from alcohol, the
question that comes to mind when I read your post is what is the consequence
for your son when he crosses your boundary?
Dandylion's post is gospel truth to me and the path I went down that almost crushed me....and
absolutely did not help my loved ones one single bit, but made everything even worse.
"For example---not to criticise you----that you don't know everything about the dynamcs within the alcoholic and loved ones. It is my opinion that taking a position of "lecturing" your son and doling out "punishments" to him....as a result you your (and your other son) hurt and disappointment is counter-productive to your son and to your own self. Just pouring more gasoline on the flame, so to speak. Actually drawing the "battle lines" even more distinctly. While having these "come to Jesus" sessions may give you and his brother some immediate relief of venting your anger---the overall result, in my opinion is not progress."
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Hi Lynn,
The one gift time gives us is the clarity we develop in the painful moments like you are walking through right now.
My qualifiers died in their disease creating chaos and havoc all their lives for those of us in the family. You will never have the power to give his sobriety but you have all the power to protect your other child and yourself from the insanity.
You set a boundary he can’t drink under your roof and he’s still there. Of course he’s going to drink! It’s what alcoholics not in recovery do.
Your house...your rules. Period. No lectures will change anything! Why waste your limited time and energy in such futility?
My dad was an alcoholic sociopath and I can be powered by bitchdust you would not believe! Anger and becoming a hellbich can be who I am but I close love and a path oh hope today... I work with dual diagnosis high recidivists everyday... I am making a documentary.
The only way you can hope for change is taking control of your home. Push baby bird out of his comfy nest. Buy him a week at a halfway house and enough food for a week and a pass for a bus so he can get to day labor.
You can’t save him but you can protect your other child. My mom didn’t protect us from the alcoholics who tortured us... it destroyed them and her in the end.
I survived because I am resilient...in my family of Origen genetics was the gun but environment pulled the trigger.
control your environment... create your peace and serenity for your home and let baby bird find his own wings. Give him a meeting list for AA and a big book for a housewarming.
You can do this and find your way back to yourself... nothing changes if nothing changes.
The one gift time gives us is the clarity we develop in the painful moments like you are walking through right now.
My qualifiers died in their disease creating chaos and havoc all their lives for those of us in the family. You will never have the power to give his sobriety but you have all the power to protect your other child and yourself from the insanity.
You set a boundary he can’t drink under your roof and he’s still there. Of course he’s going to drink! It’s what alcoholics not in recovery do.
Your house...your rules. Period. No lectures will change anything! Why waste your limited time and energy in such futility?
My dad was an alcoholic sociopath and I can be powered by bitchdust you would not believe! Anger and becoming a hellbich can be who I am but I close love and a path oh hope today... I work with dual diagnosis high recidivists everyday... I am making a documentary.
The only way you can hope for change is taking control of your home. Push baby bird out of his comfy nest. Buy him a week at a halfway house and enough food for a week and a pass for a bus so he can get to day labor.
You can’t save him but you can protect your other child. My mom didn’t protect us from the alcoholics who tortured us... it destroyed them and her in the end.
I survived because I am resilient...in my family of Origen genetics was the gun but environment pulled the trigger.
control your environment... create your peace and serenity for your home and let baby bird find his own wings. Give him a meeting list for AA and a big book for a housewarming.
You can do this and find your way back to yourself... nothing changes if nothing changes.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 64
I'm just going to respond to everything in one place. I have been angry here before at what was just said to me again---kick him out. And yet I am humbly understanding why you all keep saying it. I'm not saying I'm there--I'm not saying I can do it--I'm not saying that if I did it I could hold my ground--and I'm definitely not saying that if I did it I wouldn't be worse off worrying myself to death. This is why I haven't made the threat or taken the action--yet. But I do see it--I told I won't live like this and it isn't a matter of will---it's a matter of survival. I can't live like this.
My son stewed for 3 days and then decided he was going to go off on his brother and his brother refused to step outside to be screamed out. I mean really, who walks outside with you when you call your shot and tell them you're going to yell at them? And thank God he didn't because my son was blind with rage. I have never seen him like that (he's 22) and frankly it scared the crap out of me. I had to scream at him because he started kicking his brother's car. It was a horrifically volatile and embarrassing spectacle. He walked off (in the neighborhood) and I ended up going to find him because I was not ok with his state of mind. He reached his breaking point. And if anything is ever funny in this jacked situation, I gave him pretty much the talk you all just gave me---how it wasn't productive and it made things worse not better and it was really more for him to feel like he is heard, etc. So yeah, I know you're all right.
Al-Anon. I don't want to be offensive and it works for you that's fantastic. I went to Al-Anon first (online) and it is not for me. It isn't the faith piece (I know that it is for some) it's the cult-like experience. A bunch of people with rehearsed responses and scripted "sharing". That is not my jam. I'm not a sugar coat it person. I'm not a put flowers and rainbows all around this steaming pile of crap person either. I'm a freestyler
I need help. I know that. Al-Anon isn't the help I need. And I'm a lot better at helping than receiving help, so there's that. I'm going to go start a new post about my next step.
My son stewed for 3 days and then decided he was going to go off on his brother and his brother refused to step outside to be screamed out. I mean really, who walks outside with you when you call your shot and tell them you're going to yell at them? And thank God he didn't because my son was blind with rage. I have never seen him like that (he's 22) and frankly it scared the crap out of me. I had to scream at him because he started kicking his brother's car. It was a horrifically volatile and embarrassing spectacle. He walked off (in the neighborhood) and I ended up going to find him because I was not ok with his state of mind. He reached his breaking point. And if anything is ever funny in this jacked situation, I gave him pretty much the talk you all just gave me---how it wasn't productive and it made things worse not better and it was really more for him to feel like he is heard, etc. So yeah, I know you're all right.
Al-Anon. I don't want to be offensive and it works for you that's fantastic. I went to Al-Anon first (online) and it is not for me. It isn't the faith piece (I know that it is for some) it's the cult-like experience. A bunch of people with rehearsed responses and scripted "sharing". That is not my jam. I'm not a sugar coat it person. I'm not a put flowers and rainbows all around this steaming pile of crap person either. I'm a freestyler
I need help. I know that. Al-Anon isn't the help I need. And I'm a lot better at helping than receiving help, so there's that. I'm going to go start a new post about my next step.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
Most all people who have attended alanon will tell you that they had to go to several
meetings before they found one that "fit". I understand you don't think it can benefit
you, but I have to say I've never heard alanon described as a place where things are
sugar-coated??? Put flowers and rainbows around steaming pile of crap? Even my
worst meeting was none of the things you have described. Online meetings are
admittedly bereft of the in person support and fellowship & friendships that
naturally form. Good alanon meetings give support and help one to begin the
really hard work of starting real change in their lives. It is the hardest work
most ever have done, with real life changing, emotionally healthy and healing
outcomes. But alanoners/codependents must be as committed to change
their unhealthy ways as alcoholics must be to stop drinking & truly embrace
recovery.
meetings before they found one that "fit". I understand you don't think it can benefit
you, but I have to say I've never heard alanon described as a place where things are
sugar-coated??? Put flowers and rainbows around steaming pile of crap? Even my
worst meeting was none of the things you have described. Online meetings are
admittedly bereft of the in person support and fellowship & friendships that
naturally form. Good alanon meetings give support and help one to begin the
really hard work of starting real change in their lives. It is the hardest work
most ever have done, with real life changing, emotionally healthy and healing
outcomes. But alanoners/codependents must be as committed to change
their unhealthy ways as alcoholics must be to stop drinking & truly embrace
recovery.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 259
Something that was pointed out to me on here that I think applies to you is "compassion fatigue." If you look it up, you'll find it refers mainly to medical care professionals, but can also apply to caretakers and people experiencing secondary trauma (such as from living with an addict.)
I think the symptoms listed, like mood swings and detachment fit what you're describing. Common treatments for it are also things we talk about a lot on this forum, such as eating well, staying hydrated, getting good sleep, therapy, etc.
I know it sounds harsh, but your rules and boundaries are meaningless unless you enforce them. Addicts will always push your boundaries, testing them for weakness and trying to nudge them a bit further. You have a rule not to drink in your house, but unless the rule has consequences, he's not going to follow it. You have to determine what rules and consequences work best for you, based on what you're willing and able to follow through on. If you are unwilling to kick him out and make him find his own place, then you'll need to either just drop the rule, or think of another way that will create consequences he will actually heed. Some people are only kept from speeding when they think there's a cop, you know?
It feels like your whole family is reaching a breaking point in this crisis. Your addicted son is unable and unwilling to stop drinking, his brother is overcome with pain and anger, and you are overwhelmed and detached. If kicking him out is not an option that you'll consider, all of you are going to need to find strong boundaries to keep a wall between you and the chaos.
You cannot control his actions or addiction, you can only control your responses to them. If long conversations about needing to quit are difficult for you and unproductive for him, why have them? Stepping back from the need for those talks may help reduce your dread and stress. I get how tough this situation is. It makes everyone involved feel trapped and powerless. Sometimes the best thing you can do for your own mental health is accept you are powerless to cure his addiction, and shift your focus to yourself instead.
I understand what you're saying about alanon, I didn't like it either. I didn't like the religious aspect of it, and I didn't like how it flowed so rigidly. It's not for everyone. I find a lot of help posting and replying on here, as well as a weekly zoom meeting with a group of family and friends of the addicts who went to the rehab facility my AH first went to. Everyone's gotta find the support system that works for them.
I think the symptoms listed, like mood swings and detachment fit what you're describing. Common treatments for it are also things we talk about a lot on this forum, such as eating well, staying hydrated, getting good sleep, therapy, etc.
I know it sounds harsh, but your rules and boundaries are meaningless unless you enforce them. Addicts will always push your boundaries, testing them for weakness and trying to nudge them a bit further. You have a rule not to drink in your house, but unless the rule has consequences, he's not going to follow it. You have to determine what rules and consequences work best for you, based on what you're willing and able to follow through on. If you are unwilling to kick him out and make him find his own place, then you'll need to either just drop the rule, or think of another way that will create consequences he will actually heed. Some people are only kept from speeding when they think there's a cop, you know?
It feels like your whole family is reaching a breaking point in this crisis. Your addicted son is unable and unwilling to stop drinking, his brother is overcome with pain and anger, and you are overwhelmed and detached. If kicking him out is not an option that you'll consider, all of you are going to need to find strong boundaries to keep a wall between you and the chaos.
You cannot control his actions or addiction, you can only control your responses to them. If long conversations about needing to quit are difficult for you and unproductive for him, why have them? Stepping back from the need for those talks may help reduce your dread and stress. I get how tough this situation is. It makes everyone involved feel trapped and powerless. Sometimes the best thing you can do for your own mental health is accept you are powerless to cure his addiction, and shift your focus to yourself instead.
I understand what you're saying about alanon, I didn't like it either. I didn't like the religious aspect of it, and I didn't like how it flowed so rigidly. It's not for everyone. I find a lot of help posting and replying on here, as well as a weekly zoom meeting with a group of family and friends of the addicts who went to the rehab facility my AH first went to. Everyone's gotta find the support system that works for them.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by mylifeismine
Most all people who have attended alanon will tell you that they had to go to several
meetings before they found one that "fit". I understand you don't think it can benefit
you, but I have to say I've never heard alanon described as a place where things are
sugar-coated??? Put flowers and rainbows around steaming pile of crap? Even my
worst meeting was none of the things you have described. Online meetings are
admittedly bereft of the in person support and fellowship & friendships that
naturally form. Good alanon meetings give support and help one to begin the
really hard work of starting real change in their lives. It is the hardest work
most ever have done, with real life changing, emotionally healthy and healing
outcomes. But alanoners/codependents must be as committed to change
their unhealthy ways as alcoholics must be to stop drinking & truly embrace
recovery.
meetings before they found one that "fit". I understand you don't think it can benefit
you, but I have to say I've never heard alanon described as a place where things are
sugar-coated??? Put flowers and rainbows around steaming pile of crap? Even my
worst meeting was none of the things you have described. Online meetings are
admittedly bereft of the in person support and fellowship & friendships that
naturally form. Good alanon meetings give support and help one to begin the
really hard work of starting real change in their lives. It is the hardest work
most ever have done, with real life changing, emotionally healthy and healing
outcomes. But alanoners/codependents must be as committed to change
their unhealthy ways as alcoholics must be to stop drinking & truly embrace
recovery.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by Cookie314
Something that was pointed out to me on here that I think applies to you is "compassion fatigue." If you look it up, you'll find it refers mainly to medical care professionals, but can also apply to caretakers and people experiencing secondary trauma (such as from living with an addict.)
I think the symptoms listed, like mood swings and detachment fit what you're describing. Common treatments for it are also things we talk about a lot on this forum, such as eating well, staying hydrated, getting good sleep, therapy, etc.
I know it sounds harsh, but your rules and boundaries are meaningless unless you enforce them. Addicts will always push your boundaries, testing them for weakness and trying to nudge them a bit further. You have a rule not to drink in your house, but unless the rule has consequences, he's not going to follow it. You have to determine what rules and consequences work best for you, based on what you're willing and able to follow through on. If you are unwilling to kick him out and make him find his own place, then you'll need to either just drop the rule, or think of another way that will create consequences he will actually heed. Some people are only kept from speeding when they think there's a cop, you know?
It feels like your whole family is reaching a breaking point in this crisis. Your addicted son is unable and unwilling to stop drinking, his brother is overcome with pain and anger, and you are overwhelmed and detached. If kicking him out is not an option that you'll consider, all of you are going to need to find strong boundaries to keep a wall between you and the chaos.
You cannot control his actions or addiction, you can only control your responses to them. If long conversations about needing to quit are difficult for you and unproductive for him, why have them? Stepping back from the need for those talks may help reduce your dread and stress. I get how tough this situation is. It makes everyone involved feel trapped and powerless. Sometimes the best thing you can do for your own mental health is accept you are powerless to cure his addiction, and shift your focus to yourself instead.
I understand what you're saying about alanon, I didn't like it either. I didn't like the religious aspect of it, and I didn't like how it flowed so rigidly. It's not for everyone. I find a lot of help posting and replying on here, as well as a weekly zoom meeting with a group of family and friends of the addicts who went to the rehab facility my AH first went to. Everyone's gotta find the support system that works for them.
I think the symptoms listed, like mood swings and detachment fit what you're describing. Common treatments for it are also things we talk about a lot on this forum, such as eating well, staying hydrated, getting good sleep, therapy, etc.
I know it sounds harsh, but your rules and boundaries are meaningless unless you enforce them. Addicts will always push your boundaries, testing them for weakness and trying to nudge them a bit further. You have a rule not to drink in your house, but unless the rule has consequences, he's not going to follow it. You have to determine what rules and consequences work best for you, based on what you're willing and able to follow through on. If you are unwilling to kick him out and make him find his own place, then you'll need to either just drop the rule, or think of another way that will create consequences he will actually heed. Some people are only kept from speeding when they think there's a cop, you know?
It feels like your whole family is reaching a breaking point in this crisis. Your addicted son is unable and unwilling to stop drinking, his brother is overcome with pain and anger, and you are overwhelmed and detached. If kicking him out is not an option that you'll consider, all of you are going to need to find strong boundaries to keep a wall between you and the chaos.
You cannot control his actions or addiction, you can only control your responses to them. If long conversations about needing to quit are difficult for you and unproductive for him, why have them? Stepping back from the need for those talks may help reduce your dread and stress. I get how tough this situation is. It makes everyone involved feel trapped and powerless. Sometimes the best thing you can do for your own mental health is accept you are powerless to cure his addiction, and shift your focus to yourself instead.
I understand what you're saying about alanon, I didn't like it either. I didn't like the religious aspect of it, and I didn't like how it flowed so rigidly. It's not for everyone. I find a lot of help posting and replying on here, as well as a weekly zoom meeting with a group of family and friends of the addicts who went to the rehab facility my AH first went to. Everyone's gotta find the support system that works for them.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
I get it that you want a different support group Is your younger son getting any support
himself? He might like alanon? In the family dynamic of living with active alcoholism,
the alcoholic is the center of attention and drains everyone emotionally, so other
kids can feel unimportant and left out. They need help understanding addiction, the
family dynamic it creates, understanding their own anger, frustration and resentment
towards their sibling, and why lecturing/yelling is not their role and very unhealthy for
all. A good addiction trained therapist can really help.
Is your younger son getting any supporthimself? He might like alanon? In the family dynamic of living with active alcoholism,
the alcoholic is the center of attention and drains everyone emotionally, so other
kids can feel unimportant and left out. They need help understanding addiction, the
family dynamic it creates, understanding their own anger, frustration and resentment
towards their sibling, and why lecturing/yelling is not their role and very unhealthy for
all. A good addiction trained therapist can really help.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 142
Gotta say my first thought was "why hasn't she kicked him out yet?". Then I read some more of your posts and your and your son's story and I understood why. I get you are nearing the end of your rope. I get that it is unbelievably hard. But (you knew that was coming, didn't you?), you obviously see that what you are doing, what you have tried, what you have refused to do, what you have refused to try--it is not working. For you or either of your sons. It seems to me that you see yourself headed to kicking him out when you have totally run out of ways to try to help. What everyone here is saying is that that IS the only way to help. It's not his fault and you love him, but HE is the one with the DISEASE. And with this disease, HE is the only one who can treat it. And he will not make a move to do so as long as you are making it easy for him not to. I am sorry this is harsh. But it is the way it is. Don't wait until your compassion is gone. I wish you well.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 336
I know a lot of people also like SMARTRecovery Friends & Family meetings/support. Different culture, different philosophy, similar connection to people who have firsthand experience. Haven’t seen it mentioned here, but if it has or you’re already aware, then my apologies!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by mylifeismine
I get it that you want a different support group Is your younger son getting any support
himself? He might like alanon? In the family dynamic of living with active alcoholism,
the alcoholic is the center of attention and drains everyone emotionally, so other
kids can feel unimportant and left out. They need help understanding addiction, the
family dynamic it creates, understanding their own anger, frustration and resentment
towards their sibling, and why lecturing/yelling is not their role and very unhealthy for
all. A good addiction trained therapist can really help.
Is your younger son getting any supporthimself? He might like alanon? In the family dynamic of living with active alcoholism,
the alcoholic is the center of attention and drains everyone emotionally, so other
kids can feel unimportant and left out. They need help understanding addiction, the
family dynamic it creates, understanding their own anger, frustration and resentment
towards their sibling, and why lecturing/yelling is not their role and very unhealthy for
all. A good addiction trained therapist can really help.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by dbyrer
Gotta say my first thought was "why hasn't she kicked him out yet?". Then I read some more of your posts and your and your son's story and I understood why. I get you are nearing the end of your rope. I get that it is unbelievably hard. But (you knew that was coming, didn't you?), you obviously see that what you are doing, what you have tried, what you have refused to do, what you have refused to try--it is not working. For you or either of your sons. It seems to me that you see yourself headed to kicking him out when you have totally run out of ways to try to help. What everyone here is saying is that that IS the only way to help. It's not his fault and you love him, but HE is the one with the DISEASE. And with this disease, HE is the only one who can treat it. And he will not make a move to do so as long as you are making it easy for him not to. I am sorry this is harsh. But it is the way it is. Don't wait until your compassion is gone. I wish you well.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by edoering
I know a lot of people also like SMARTRecovery Friends & Family meetings/support. Different culture, different philosophy, similar connection to people who have firsthand experience. Haven’t seen it mentioned here, but if it has or you’re already aware, then my apologies!
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