AH is back home
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Originally Posted by Cookie314 
I'm doing alright. More tired than anything else honestly. This week is shut down at the plant, but it puts maintenance (my department) into overdrive, so the whole week has been 10 hour days that start at 5 am. I'm definitely going to sleep away most of this weekend.
Things are tense and awkward with my AH, but not antagonistic. He's been attending his meetings and seeing a counselor, hopefully he keeps that up. If he can maintain this sobriety is gives me hope for retaining a friendship after our separation.
Things are tense and awkward with my AH, but not antagonistic. He's been attending his meetings and seeing a counselor, hopefully he keeps that up. If he can maintain this sobriety is gives me hope for retaining a friendship after our separation.
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Things seemed a little better last night when I got home. AH was mowing the lawn, and seemed in better spirits than he's been in a while. He feels the medications are helping (I guess it's actuality naltrexone he's using, in addition to other things), and hasn't had the serious cravings because of it. In addition he said he still feels pain over the divorce, but some excitement too. He's trying to put a more positive spin on things, and hopes he can get into being healthier and a better state mentally.
It was a pleasant evening all things considered. Ofc that made it bittersweet for me. It creates twinges of hurt and anger that he hasn't seemed to perk up like this until I'm ready to leave the picture. Though I realize that also isn't fair to either of us and the feeling passes relatively quickly. It's a glimpse to how things used to be when we were first together, which leaves me a little melancholy. I also realize this isn't the first time he's returned from treatment feeling reinvigorated, and we still both need time separately to focus on recovery.
I hope our optimism stays with both of us, and he's able to maintain his sobriety. Perhaps part of what is kicking him towards this is the fact that divorce is so different from what we've both been doing up to this point. We'll have to see if the phrase "sometimes doing something different makes all the difference" holds true.
It was a pleasant evening all things considered. Ofc that made it bittersweet for me. It creates twinges of hurt and anger that he hasn't seemed to perk up like this until I'm ready to leave the picture. Though I realize that also isn't fair to either of us and the feeling passes relatively quickly. It's a glimpse to how things used to be when we were first together, which leaves me a little melancholy. I also realize this isn't the first time he's returned from treatment feeling reinvigorated, and we still both need time separately to focus on recovery.
I hope our optimism stays with both of us, and he's able to maintain his sobriety. Perhaps part of what is kicking him towards this is the fact that divorce is so different from what we've both been doing up to this point. We'll have to see if the phrase "sometimes doing something different makes all the difference" holds true.
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Originally Posted by Cookie314
Things seemed a little better last night when I got home. AH was mowing the lawn, and seemed in better spirits than he's been in a while. He feels the medications are helping (I guess it's actuality naltrexone he's using, in addition to other things), and hasn't had the serious cravings because of it. In addition he said he still feels pain over the divorce, but some excitement too. He's trying to put a more positive spin on things, and hopes he can get into being healthier and a better state mentally.
It was a pleasant evening all things considered. Ofc that made it bittersweet for me. It creates twinges of hurt and anger that he hasn't seemed to perk up like this until I'm ready to leave the picture. Though I realize that also isn't fair to either of us and the feeling passes relatively quickly. It's a glimpse to how things used to be when we were first together, which leaves me a little melancholy. I also realize this isn't the first time he's returned from treatment feeling reinvigorated, and we still both need time separately to focus on recovery.
I hope our optimism stays with both of us, and he's able to maintain his sobriety. Perhaps part of what is kicking him towards this is the fact that divorce is so different from what we've both been doing up to this point. We'll have to see if the phrase "sometimes doing something different makes all the difference" holds true.
It was a pleasant evening all things considered. Ofc that made it bittersweet for me. It creates twinges of hurt and anger that he hasn't seemed to perk up like this until I'm ready to leave the picture. Though I realize that also isn't fair to either of us and the feeling passes relatively quickly. It's a glimpse to how things used to be when we were first together, which leaves me a little melancholy. I also realize this isn't the first time he's returned from treatment feeling reinvigorated, and we still both need time separately to focus on recovery.
I hope our optimism stays with both of us, and he's able to maintain his sobriety. Perhaps part of what is kicking him towards this is the fact that divorce is so different from what we've both been doing up to this point. We'll have to see if the phrase "sometimes doing something different makes all the difference" holds true.
Maybe you’ll end up friends, maybe not, but it’s time for the focus to be on you.
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Cookie, I had an extremely amiable divorce many years ago and while we are great friends today, there was a necessary period for both of us where we needed to let go and focus not on maintaining friendship but on ourselves and who we were outside the relationship. At first it was very tempting to focus on "being friends"--not just for ourselves but to make all the people in our circle more comfortable--but our expectations were not very reasonable in this regard, and by keeping the focus there, we weren't focused on ourselves, and our individual healing and grief.
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We made no formal or informal agreement on contact, but I definitely stopped pushing myself to be at events I knew he would be at while I worked on myself. It ended up being low contact, mostly around logistical arrangements for the divorce and transfer of the condo into my name only, and care of our dog. But the social contact was reduced to almost nothing for many months, and we gave each other the space to heal individually.
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That seems like a decent method. It will be nice to focus on ourselves for a while I think. The lower contact will likely happen naturally as we both get busy with our individual lives. I'll have to focus all my doting on the kitty from now on!
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
Cookie, I had an extremely amiable divorce many years ago and while we are great friends today, there was a necessary period for both of us where we needed to let go and focus not on maintaining friendship but on ourselves and who we were outside the relationship. At first it was very tempting to focus on "being friends"--not just for ourselves but to make all the people in our circle more comfortable--but our expectations were not very reasonable in this regard, and by keeping the focus there, we weren't focused on ourselves, and our individual healing and grief.
My ex and I are on friendly terms as well.
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As an update, AH and I talked more today. It went OK, but was also very frustrating to me. He said his counselor wanted him to talk to me more, because he doesn't really understand why I'm divorcing him.
I did my best to gather my thoughts, and some advice, and read this to him for some of my reasons:
"The base reason for the divorce is because my trust has been broken. I have put my health largely to the side in interest of always trying to do what is best for you and your recovery. It has been frustrating to me when I try to communicate openly with you, but don't get communication from you in turn.
It hurts when I try to create healthy boundaries, and they are ignored, circumvented, or thrown in my face. It hurts when I try to bring up crossed boundaries, and you respond with yelling, insults, dismissing my feelings, deflecting the argument, etc.
I have tried to set up counseling for us for a couple of years now, but it is always ignored or shut down. It feels like being gaslighted. As if when i try to point out things that are wrong or need work, I'm being told that I'm the only one who has an issue.
You seem very dedicated to recovery, and I hope you succeed. That said, in the past when you have begun steps to recovery, any relapses are marked with blaming me and lashing out. I need you to prove to me that you can focus on recovery, and find healthy coping mechanisms that don't use me as a crutch or scapegoat.
It is very stressful to be told you'd kill yourself without me, and respond to stresses between us suicidally. I know this ideation is terrible for you too, and something you are working on and getting help with. But the fact is is that your standoff with the police was a true breaking point for me. It was terrifying. I have never fully realized my complete lack of control over your choices or actions until that point. I can't keep living in the fear that something I do or say is going to result in that. When you are drinking, you are a very different person. I can't live in fear of you having another relapse of that level, and part of living together and creating a recovery environment is giving you that trust. Especially since I know your trust in yourself is hurting too."
After I read off what i wrote down. He talked about how diagnoses at the rehab center, and his suicidal ideation, and how he's not in control when he's drinking, and his counselor describes it as being a different person when drunk. I told him that even if he's not able to control himself or remember blackouts, it's still him doing those things. He said his counselor describes it differently, and she was taken aback that i had filed for divorce, and felt like I didn't really understand addiction. This made me so angry that I couldn't even respond, which is when we took a break to make dinner. He did qualify it that he didn't give her all the info i had just given him, but I still just didn't know how to respond to that. I'm glad we stopped when we did.
For those of you who have been through AA and experienced alcoholism first hand, were you told to think of it as being a separate person? Everything I've read so far has pointed towards thinking of "you" and "drunk you" as an excuse. Like "oh but I'm not really like that, I was just drunk! It's my disease, not me!" Then to have him append it with saying "his counselor" felt I didn't really understand alcoholism?! I had to focus on my breathing for a solid 3 minutes at least I was so angry about that. Even though he's sober right now, or maybe especially because he's sober, discussions with him get so damn twisted around. Seeing it for what it is only served to give me more practice at controlling my breathing.
Afterword he apologized for the way he had acted and what he had done, and was very affectionate. I told him I do forgive him, but I'm still firm on my decision to separate. I feel very frustrated with him. I think he is still acting so remorseful and affectionate because he still thinks there's a chance I will back out of the divorce, which ofc makes me wary that his pleasantries will dry up when he realizes I'm holding firm on that choice.
Naturally, he's also insistent on how willing he is to go to couple's counseling now. Because of course he is. I told him I don't think I can do it right now, I think separation and focusing on our individual recoveries is the best choice. He agreed and said he understood, and that I don't have to justify how I'm feeling to him. I think the times he's agreeing with me are when I'm most suspicious and off-base. I know he uses "agreeing" and being reasonable to defuse tension and placate me. This in turn makes me try to discern his underlying motivation and plans, then feel confused because maybe he really is agreeing, then irritated again because even knowing the tricks doesn't always make them less effective.
My mom and sister commented on how he claims to be so shook up and disoriented, but not so much that he can't get a lawyer set up the same day. They also commented on his points about my not understanding addiction being used to throw me off and put me in the defensive. I don't know. It's quite likely, he's brilliant and cunning, but also can be very spiteful. I hate how he makes me question everything, even now. At least the bonus to the confusion and anger he creates in me is the fact it reaffirms that I'm making the right choice. I'm ready to get away from this roller coaster.
I did my best to gather my thoughts, and some advice, and read this to him for some of my reasons:
"The base reason for the divorce is because my trust has been broken. I have put my health largely to the side in interest of always trying to do what is best for you and your recovery. It has been frustrating to me when I try to communicate openly with you, but don't get communication from you in turn.
It hurts when I try to create healthy boundaries, and they are ignored, circumvented, or thrown in my face. It hurts when I try to bring up crossed boundaries, and you respond with yelling, insults, dismissing my feelings, deflecting the argument, etc.
I have tried to set up counseling for us for a couple of years now, but it is always ignored or shut down. It feels like being gaslighted. As if when i try to point out things that are wrong or need work, I'm being told that I'm the only one who has an issue.
You seem very dedicated to recovery, and I hope you succeed. That said, in the past when you have begun steps to recovery, any relapses are marked with blaming me and lashing out. I need you to prove to me that you can focus on recovery, and find healthy coping mechanisms that don't use me as a crutch or scapegoat.
It is very stressful to be told you'd kill yourself without me, and respond to stresses between us suicidally. I know this ideation is terrible for you too, and something you are working on and getting help with. But the fact is is that your standoff with the police was a true breaking point for me. It was terrifying. I have never fully realized my complete lack of control over your choices or actions until that point. I can't keep living in the fear that something I do or say is going to result in that. When you are drinking, you are a very different person. I can't live in fear of you having another relapse of that level, and part of living together and creating a recovery environment is giving you that trust. Especially since I know your trust in yourself is hurting too."
After I read off what i wrote down. He talked about how diagnoses at the rehab center, and his suicidal ideation, and how he's not in control when he's drinking, and his counselor describes it as being a different person when drunk. I told him that even if he's not able to control himself or remember blackouts, it's still him doing those things. He said his counselor describes it differently, and she was taken aback that i had filed for divorce, and felt like I didn't really understand addiction. This made me so angry that I couldn't even respond, which is when we took a break to make dinner. He did qualify it that he didn't give her all the info i had just given him, but I still just didn't know how to respond to that. I'm glad we stopped when we did.
For those of you who have been through AA and experienced alcoholism first hand, were you told to think of it as being a separate person? Everything I've read so far has pointed towards thinking of "you" and "drunk you" as an excuse. Like "oh but I'm not really like that, I was just drunk! It's my disease, not me!" Then to have him append it with saying "his counselor" felt I didn't really understand alcoholism?! I had to focus on my breathing for a solid 3 minutes at least I was so angry about that. Even though he's sober right now, or maybe especially because he's sober, discussions with him get so damn twisted around. Seeing it for what it is only served to give me more practice at controlling my breathing.
Afterword he apologized for the way he had acted and what he had done, and was very affectionate. I told him I do forgive him, but I'm still firm on my decision to separate. I feel very frustrated with him. I think he is still acting so remorseful and affectionate because he still thinks there's a chance I will back out of the divorce, which ofc makes me wary that his pleasantries will dry up when he realizes I'm holding firm on that choice.
Naturally, he's also insistent on how willing he is to go to couple's counseling now. Because of course he is. I told him I don't think I can do it right now, I think separation and focusing on our individual recoveries is the best choice. He agreed and said he understood, and that I don't have to justify how I'm feeling to him. I think the times he's agreeing with me are when I'm most suspicious and off-base. I know he uses "agreeing" and being reasonable to defuse tension and placate me. This in turn makes me try to discern his underlying motivation and plans, then feel confused because maybe he really is agreeing, then irritated again because even knowing the tricks doesn't always make them less effective.
My mom and sister commented on how he claims to be so shook up and disoriented, but not so much that he can't get a lawyer set up the same day. They also commented on his points about my not understanding addiction being used to throw me off and put me in the defensive. I don't know. It's quite likely, he's brilliant and cunning, but also can be very spiteful. I hate how he makes me question everything, even now. At least the bonus to the confusion and anger he creates in me is the fact it reaffirms that I'm making the right choice. I'm ready to get away from this roller coaster.
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Cookie, I've been away for a few days so am just catching up here. Like so many others here, I'm impressed by your ability to "say what you mean, mean what you say, and not say it mean." (That's a bit of Alanon wisdom.) I know I had nothing even approaching the degree of clarity you seem to have.
Like others posting here, I am on friendly terms with XAH. We are 6 years divorced, and there were many times in those first few years where I truly thought I'd never speak to him again. It took time to come to a place where I had healed my anger and pain and could accept him as he was, knowing what I could trust him for and what I could not. That may be your situation also, and it may not. I don't think there's any way to know that now, but I DO think it's absolutely certain that you are doing the right thing at this point. That's the best any of us can hope for.
You have a truly mighty internal compass, Cookie. Keep your eye on the North Star of your soul. You can't go wrong.
Like others posting here, I am on friendly terms with XAH. We are 6 years divorced, and there were many times in those first few years where I truly thought I'd never speak to him again. It took time to come to a place where I had healed my anger and pain and could accept him as he was, knowing what I could trust him for and what I could not. That may be your situation also, and it may not. I don't think there's any way to know that now, but I DO think it's absolutely certain that you are doing the right thing at this point. That's the best any of us can hope for.
You have a truly mighty internal compass, Cookie. Keep your eye on the North Star of your soul. You can't go wrong.
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Cookie, I want to echo honeypig’s praise but also I want to say that you don’t have to defend your decision to separate to anyone. Not your husband, not his counselor, not us, not anyone.
The sooner you can actually physically separate, the sooner you can begin to get some perspective on how you have been living, on who you are, on who he is, everything. Time and distance are very informative.
He is not two people. He is one person, living with addiction. Until he can take responsibility for what happens when he drinks, his recovery will be in jeopardy.
The sooner you can actually physically separate, the sooner you can begin to get some perspective on how you have been living, on who you are, on who he is, everything. Time and distance are very informative.
He is not two people. He is one person, living with addiction. Until he can take responsibility for what happens when he drinks, his recovery will be in jeopardy.
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Cookie.....congrats on standing your ground. lol...it sounds like he is pushing on every hot button that he Knows that you have.
I understand how angry you must feel at what he said that the counselor said. It would be interesting to have been a fly on the wall while he was describing you to the counselor. You can be pretty sure that he painted you in an unfavorable light---with him as the poor suffering victim of your Witchood.
So very smart of you to end the discussion at that point and end that particular engagement. Brilliant action.
Remembering the value of not to JADE (if you don't want to).
J---justify yourself
A--Argue with the alcoholic
D---defend yourself
E---explain yourself
This all can be very wearing....and, his goal will, probably be to wear you down. The big danger for you, I suspect, will be for self-doubt to start to creep in. Self doubt will be your enemy.---as it will tend to undermine your self confidence. If you start to see this happening---I suggest that you will keep your distance--both physically and emotionally from him.
This brings back memories of when I was divorcing my first husband---the father of my three small children. We stayed in the house for three months before he was willing to move out. He waged a concerted campaign for most of that time to get me to reverse my decision. He, too, tried to push every button. He wasn't even an alcoholic. That was decades ago---the children are adults---and, I hear "by the grapevine", that he hasn't changed one single molecule.
I made the right decision.
I understand how angry you must feel at what he said that the counselor said. It would be interesting to have been a fly on the wall while he was describing you to the counselor. You can be pretty sure that he painted you in an unfavorable light---with him as the poor suffering victim of your Witchood.
So very smart of you to end the discussion at that point and end that particular engagement. Brilliant action.
Remembering the value of not to JADE (if you don't want to).
J---justify yourself
A--Argue with the alcoholic
D---defend yourself
E---explain yourself
This all can be very wearing....and, his goal will, probably be to wear you down. The big danger for you, I suspect, will be for self-doubt to start to creep in. Self doubt will be your enemy.---as it will tend to undermine your self confidence. If you start to see this happening---I suggest that you will keep your distance--both physically and emotionally from him.
This brings back memories of when I was divorcing my first husband---the father of my three small children. We stayed in the house for three months before he was willing to move out. He waged a concerted campaign for most of that time to get me to reverse my decision. He, too, tried to push every button. He wasn't even an alcoholic. That was decades ago---the children are adults---and, I hear "by the grapevine", that he hasn't changed one single molecule.
I made the right decision.
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Dandylion, I love the acronym. And you're absolutely right. I feel the self doubt even now, and it definitely increases the feeling of urgency in needing to distance myself. I do wonder how much he really said our what he emphasized to his counselor. It speaks to a large degree of wilful ignorance to feel completely blindsided by the divorce. Sh*t, one of the boundaries I laid out after his first week long binge in April was that I would not tolerate being told to f*ck off, and treated so disrespectfully again. This is certainly a battle of attrition he's going for, he's definitely pushing more physical contact than he used to (hand holding, head leaning, etc) all the time. It's a strange dynamic in my head to feel both affection towards him in kind, with simultaneous irritation at the increased contact. I'll have to be more firm with physical distance.
To honeypig, thank you, I think I'll save that quote for later. I agree time and distance will be my allies in navigating what I can and can't trust him for. I think the feeling of questioning him and my own feelings on his actions is what makes me craziest. I still hope we can retain friendship or at least good terms, but I definitely agree some distance for now will help that.
To sparklekitty, thank you as well. It helps to hear others affirm my sense that seeing himself as "another person" while drinking feels like an excuse. I realize the counselor may be trying to get him to a place of mental stability, and I only have his interpretation of her words, but that doesn't seem like the right thing to teach him. How do you take responsibility for your actions of you don't feel like "you" did them? I'm not sure how soon I can physically move out, but I'll try to talk to my lawyer about it.
To honeypig, thank you, I think I'll save that quote for later. I agree time and distance will be my allies in navigating what I can and can't trust him for. I think the feeling of questioning him and my own feelings on his actions is what makes me craziest. I still hope we can retain friendship or at least good terms, but I definitely agree some distance for now will help that.
To sparklekitty, thank you as well. It helps to hear others affirm my sense that seeing himself as "another person" while drinking feels like an excuse. I realize the counselor may be trying to get him to a place of mental stability, and I only have his interpretation of her words, but that doesn't seem like the right thing to teach him. How do you take responsibility for your actions of you don't feel like "you" did them? I'm not sure how soon I can physically move out, but I'll try to talk to my lawyer about it.
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Cookie - I too admire your insight and internal compass. It seems you have a strong sense of what direction you need to take for true healing for yourself. That being said, as others have mentioned, this can be a very difficult and wearing time. IMO, I really think you need to do everything you can to get out of the same house as your AH.
You’ve mentioned how he is increasing his affection toward you. He knows that’s a way to get back “in” because he knows that you desire and crave this physical connection, probably a matter of time before he will seek more intimacy…cuddling, consoling you or needing to be consoled because of how broken he feels, sleeping together etc… He will work every angle to wear your boundaries, push the envelope to draw you closer and hopefully buy him more time to work on keeping you around. Perhaps he will try another tactic…even show irritation or annoyance that YOU are pushing this divorce and attempting to engage you by way of disengaging himself, casting blame off himself and onto you, or trying desperately to convince you that he is “different now”, so you are tempted to get into a discussion. I know, such twists and turns and crazy scenarios. Wait for it. It will come.
Your posts show that it’s already started, he is attempting to use his counselor and counseling sessions as fodder to undermine your confidence, to feed your self doubt. YOU live with his addiction and it’s effects on you every. Single. Moment. You do very much understand his addiction and the effects on you-and have first hand knowledge because you are living in the vortex of his crazy, unpredictable, unhealthy life! You feel acutely the backlash of his blame and fury when he is out of control. Yay for him that he is in the beginning of his recovery! Always have hope he’ll continue on that path, but it’s not your role to be there every step of the way to make sure he succeeds. That is solely up to him. You need to focus on your own road to recovery. What does that mean for you?
if there is no way for you to get out of the same house right away, it is important to carve out a spot where you can be alone, sleep separately and decompress. I hope you have that option. It will remain awkward and tension will continue to rise and resolve will take a hit. That push and pull between you will be very difficult to navigate I suspect. Try to focus on those gut feelings you have to extricate yourself from the situation at hand. Do whatever it takes to get into a safe, healthy, calm place.
I wish you the best, continued strength and endurance to march forward with yourself intact.
You’ve mentioned how he is increasing his affection toward you. He knows that’s a way to get back “in” because he knows that you desire and crave this physical connection, probably a matter of time before he will seek more intimacy…cuddling, consoling you or needing to be consoled because of how broken he feels, sleeping together etc… He will work every angle to wear your boundaries, push the envelope to draw you closer and hopefully buy him more time to work on keeping you around. Perhaps he will try another tactic…even show irritation or annoyance that YOU are pushing this divorce and attempting to engage you by way of disengaging himself, casting blame off himself and onto you, or trying desperately to convince you that he is “different now”, so you are tempted to get into a discussion. I know, such twists and turns and crazy scenarios. Wait for it. It will come.
Your posts show that it’s already started, he is attempting to use his counselor and counseling sessions as fodder to undermine your confidence, to feed your self doubt. YOU live with his addiction and it’s effects on you every. Single. Moment. You do very much understand his addiction and the effects on you-and have first hand knowledge because you are living in the vortex of his crazy, unpredictable, unhealthy life! You feel acutely the backlash of his blame and fury when he is out of control. Yay for him that he is in the beginning of his recovery! Always have hope he’ll continue on that path, but it’s not your role to be there every step of the way to make sure he succeeds. That is solely up to him. You need to focus on your own road to recovery. What does that mean for you?
if there is no way for you to get out of the same house right away, it is important to carve out a spot where you can be alone, sleep separately and decompress. I hope you have that option. It will remain awkward and tension will continue to rise and resolve will take a hit. That push and pull between you will be very difficult to navigate I suspect. Try to focus on those gut feelings you have to extricate yourself from the situation at hand. Do whatever it takes to get into a safe, healthy, calm place.
I wish you the best, continued strength and endurance to march forward with yourself intact.
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Originally Posted by Cookie314
How do you take responsibility for your actions of you don't feel like "you" did them? I'm not sure how soon I can physically move out, but I'll try to talk to my lawyer about it.
- The biggest problem in our relationship was my alcoholism
- I treated you "pretty badly" when I was drunk
- I'm not "myself" when I'm drunk
- We should sweep all this under the carpet now because I stopped drinking.
I'm going to guess that's how he sees it, which would explain his surprise.
All of that is beside the point, as you know. This has nothing to do with him (per se). It might take you years to forgive him (or maybe never), might take you years before you trust him at all (or maybe never), but that is not his business.
You two are not a "unit", his feelings don't get transferred to you somehow. He will hopefully figure this all out some day (or not), but that's not about you, at all.
I would be very careful with "affection" as well. One thing leads to another and you are no doubt feeling pretty hurt and vulnerable right now. Keeping yourself safe mentally and physically is really important. Looks like you have the "mentally" part, maybe just be aware of the other?
As for housing. If he is going to take over the mortgage you two need to hightail it down to the bank perhaps (or you could go on a fact finding mission alone). Generally when you take someone off the mortgage/deed the remaining person must qualify for a new mortgage on their own. Can he? If not another option might be to keep your name on the mortgage and have him take out a line of credit or some other product to have him pay you out and you two can have a contract that the house is his all but say $1.00. Or, you keep a "piece" of the house and he pays you out say half, there are tons of options, the bank should be able to give you those.
I wouldn't necessarily tell them why you are looking at options right now. If they ask maybe you are thinking of buying a holiday home with your Mom/Dad/Sister or something.
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