Having an issue with alcoholism being a disease...help
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
Mr Magic was sober when I met him, and was sober for about 13 years of our marriage. I thought I understood the disease, but I didn't. Then he had serious chronic back problems and started taking pain meds. To see him, not getting high, but getting addicted, was an awakening. Seeing the personality change, the behaviors change, the rationalizations, and the excuses was truly frightening. This was a man who had great recovery at one time, and through no choice of his own was swallowed by that debilitating disease.
He became obsessed with having a large supply, started buying it on the black market, started selling it to support the habit. And I wanted so badly to beleive that what was happenning right in front of my eyes wasn't.
The best decision I ever made was to find help for myself. Knowing it is a disease isn't going to make me ok. I had a lot of work to do to get out of the hole I allowed that disease to drag me into.
I also realize that sobriety isn't a guarantee, at any stage of recovery. That mental illness is there, waiting, like a vulture. Hugs, Magic
He became obsessed with having a large supply, started buying it on the black market, started selling it to support the habit. And I wanted so badly to beleive that what was happenning right in front of my eyes wasn't.
The best decision I ever made was to find help for myself. Knowing it is a disease isn't going to make me ok. I had a lot of work to do to get out of the hole I allowed that disease to drag me into.
I also realize that sobriety isn't a guarantee, at any stage of recovery. That mental illness is there, waiting, like a vulture. Hugs, Magic
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 17
The disease model is really just about insurance
If someone did not decide that alcoholism is a disease, then the alcoholic could not be helped by the insurance. We all have issues and hangups, and I hate to say it, but many are biologically based. Serial killers and other murderers have different brain structures than the rest of us...how much understanding should we give them?
What makes us human is the ability (found in the cerebral cortex) to consciously overcome the bad wiring that can be found in the rest of the brain. It is easier for some than others, but we all have issues that we deal with on a regular basis....some are more destructive and obvious than others, but no one's brain is perfect.
The main thing is we have to all recognize our struggles and work on ways to work through them. If it is something we have been doing for years, then it is going to be harder to change because our brain is wired to do the same thing it has been doing for years, but we can still change.
Just some food for thought...
What makes us human is the ability (found in the cerebral cortex) to consciously overcome the bad wiring that can be found in the rest of the brain. It is easier for some than others, but we all have issues that we deal with on a regular basis....some are more destructive and obvious than others, but no one's brain is perfect.
The main thing is we have to all recognize our struggles and work on ways to work through them. If it is something we have been doing for years, then it is going to be harder to change because our brain is wired to do the same thing it has been doing for years, but we can still change.
Just some food for thought...
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 46
I agree with Prodigal's post that said that alcoholism is different than cancer or Alzheimer's because the alcoholic chooses to continue to supply his/her "needs." In my opinion, alcoholism is a self-inflicted disease. Kinda like the difference between suicide and murder - one you bring on yourself, the other you get whether you want it or not.
Obesity has now been categorized as a disease, and one I think, as an obese person myself, that is self-inflicted. The only difference is that my obesity is probably not going to cause me to kill someone when I am driving - unless I lose control of my car while eating! It has consequences for people other than myself in terms of medical and insurance costs. I might not be making my family members miserable when I eat, but what I do does affect other people. Of course, that is true of all the choices we make in our life - and, after all, I have to eat in order to live. I've just gotten that a little turned around. The alcoholic does not have to drink in order to live. He's just gotten that turned around, too!
The thing to keep in mind with self-inflicted diseases like alcoholism and obesity is that no one else can choose for you to stop doing the things that cause the disease. But YOU can - and that's why it's hard for me to think in terms of disease when I think of alcholism. I cannot consciously choose to stop having Alzheimer's or Lou Gehrig's disease or any of the host of other diseases that people are afflicted with. But the only way I can get sober is by choosing to do it. Big difference as far as I am concerned.
So should I be compassionate regarding the alcoholic? Well, if I'm not living with him, it's easier. I should be compassionate just because he/she is human. If I'm going to have compassion for someone, it's far easier for me to be compassionate for someone who suffers from problems that he didn't cause himself in the first place.
Obesity has now been categorized as a disease, and one I think, as an obese person myself, that is self-inflicted. The only difference is that my obesity is probably not going to cause me to kill someone when I am driving - unless I lose control of my car while eating! It has consequences for people other than myself in terms of medical and insurance costs. I might not be making my family members miserable when I eat, but what I do does affect other people. Of course, that is true of all the choices we make in our life - and, after all, I have to eat in order to live. I've just gotten that a little turned around. The alcoholic does not have to drink in order to live. He's just gotten that turned around, too!
The thing to keep in mind with self-inflicted diseases like alcoholism and obesity is that no one else can choose for you to stop doing the things that cause the disease. But YOU can - and that's why it's hard for me to think in terms of disease when I think of alcholism. I cannot consciously choose to stop having Alzheimer's or Lou Gehrig's disease or any of the host of other diseases that people are afflicted with. But the only way I can get sober is by choosing to do it. Big difference as far as I am concerned.
So should I be compassionate regarding the alcoholic? Well, if I'm not living with him, it's easier. I should be compassionate just because he/she is human. If I'm going to have compassion for someone, it's far easier for me to be compassionate for someone who suffers from problems that he didn't cause himself in the first place.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 727
Hey all,when an alcoholic horsetheif sobers up what do you have left?A sober horsetheif..Still a horsetheif,though.Until, he/she is in some kind of recovery program.Or gets some kind of help..For change..the inside..The disease concept,hmmm.I didnt go for it myself,either.,at first..Ive heard it said in the rooms that alcoholism ,is deemed a disease,by the medical proffession..,Im more open to it,and use it in reference to alcoholism. Its a sickenss of the body,mind and spirit.Not all diseases are a sickness of the ,mind and,spirit.Ive seen some pretty ill folks,and their spirits seem to be great,even though they are going through so much phyically.,and their minds are intact,...This is a great topic.
Thanks for letting me share,
god Bless,,take care!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for letting me share,
god Bless,,take care!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Cap3; 12-07-2004 at 08:32 PM. Reason: adding to post.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 105
I found it very distrubing that my EX As disease was suddenly cured the day I told him I wanted a divorce. Cured just like that ( snap fingers). Not a drink in over a year, not even that want of a drink. I went thru with the divorce. Put him thru hell (according to him), but still no drink.
His disease was cured with no support group, no AA. He went to a six week out-patient program. That was it.
Disease = bull****
Choice = he made a bad one night after nite after nite.
This guy drink 1/2 gallon of gin every nite, mever missed an evening with the bottle.
Just my 2 cents.
take care
His disease was cured with no support group, no AA. He went to a six week out-patient program. That was it.
Disease = bull****
Choice = he made a bad one night after nite after nite.
This guy drink 1/2 gallon of gin every nite, mever missed an evening with the bottle.
Just my 2 cents.
take care
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewiston ID
Posts: 3
I'll say it again
(AA Book) "Alcohol was not our problem but mearly a symptom, what we truely suffer from is a soal sickness"
I am going to have to agree with this quote because after I got comfortable with myself and the way things were going I no longer wanted to drowned my brain in drugs and alcohol. There was no more overbearing pain to deal with. It was all regular life things on lifes terms and I can handle that.
Not to mention who wants to be told that they are differnet then their fellow man. I am not a cancer patient, I am a person who did'nt know how to live within the bounderies of society. I was a piece of crap and proud of it. Through recovery I dont look at myself like that anymore, therefore I dont have to use to be "cool"
I am going to have to agree with this quote because after I got comfortable with myself and the way things were going I no longer wanted to drowned my brain in drugs and alcohol. There was no more overbearing pain to deal with. It was all regular life things on lifes terms and I can handle that.
Not to mention who wants to be told that they are differnet then their fellow man. I am not a cancer patient, I am a person who did'nt know how to live within the bounderies of society. I was a piece of crap and proud of it. Through recovery I dont look at myself like that anymore, therefore I dont have to use to be "cool"
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
Part of coming to some sort of peace within myself was to quit trying to figure out others' intentions. Taking alcoholism personally, whether a disease or not, only made me feel a victim. I was looking for someone to blame, an outlet for my anger, frustration, loneliness, and fear. Looking at my own life, decisions, and behaviors made me realize that people do things because of what drives them. They don't do them to make my life hell. In fact, the only one who has the power to make my life hell is me.
Life isn't a story book. There are very few people who even look like they live that, and I question if even they don't have personal challenges to face. Sitting in self pity for the hand I was dealt was my own choice. Finding a way to prevail when faced with adversity is a skill I needed to learn.
Trying to figure out others intentions is a never ending cycle of futility. Taking the focus off of others, and putting it on my own recovery is my way to break the cycle and begin moving forward. Hugs, Magic
Life isn't a story book. There are very few people who even look like they live that, and I question if even they don't have personal challenges to face. Sitting in self pity for the hand I was dealt was my own choice. Finding a way to prevail when faced with adversity is a skill I needed to learn.
Trying to figure out others intentions is a never ending cycle of futility. Taking the focus off of others, and putting it on my own recovery is my way to break the cycle and begin moving forward. Hugs, Magic
Last edited by Magichappens; 12-08-2004 at 05:13 AM. Reason: sp
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