qtpi

Pretend you are watching TV with the mute button on. Watch the actions. Ignore the words.

trailmix

Yes, action, not words.

I this can be a tough road to take. Sometimes we get so used to listening to the words and kind of setting our hat on them that when they don't happen or when something nasty happens (fight, being accused of being too introverted, sensitive, misunderstanding) that we can buy in to it, even temporarily.

The "actions not words" approach isn't as easy as it sounds. You kind of have to carry on your life as normal but be more critical in how you view what's happening around you and to you. That's not always easy, it's much easier to fall back in to the status quo.

Also, as you seek answers through their actions, don't imagine there won't be push back. No one likes to have the ball in their court, now the onus is on them to make a move and they may not really want to. The proof is in the pudding.

When you think of the counselling you two have done do you believe that this had propelled your relationship in to a better place? Do you feel that you are making progress? Has anything changed?

dandylion

I think that is quite astounding that the couples counselor doesn't realize what a Major issue that the drinking is in the relationship.
If you can't be totally open with the counselor....and, need to discuss which issues to even discuss in the sessions with your husband....you are really getting short-changed....
One of the main reasons that marriage counselor will not usually take on a couple.....if active addiction is in the picture....is that it is not an even playing field for the non-drinking spouse. It can make the situation even worse for the non-drinker. Of course, the alcoholic is never fully present, either. They will continue to try to defend their drinking and place blame elsewhere.
Also, counselors who are not really trained in addiction will often miss the clues, and can, often be manipulated by the often manipulative alcoholic.....
In these kinds of situations, individual counseling for both parties is usually recommended.....

Damaged2

Good question and, yes, things have gotten a little better. We've been doing this for about 6 months and what's improved is how we talk to each other. Our fights used to be simply horrible! Cutting each other to the core, deliberately saying things to hurt each other, me crying so hard I could barely breathe. We still fight, but we're a lot more careful now, and she's given us language to use so that we're communicating and hearing each other, not just lashing out. We also have something to refer to when we need to talk about something: "Remember what our counselor said about this?" I feel like this is a real improvement, although we definitely have a long way to go. My AH is willing to go, I'll give him that. Although I'm the one who makes the appointments, and has to remind him of the day/time. Almost every single time he's forgotten, which used to trigger me that he's not very invested, but I'm trying to let that go. I think deep down he knows that his drinking (or really the behaviors that surround it) is a core issue and one that we're going to have to address eventually. And, of course, he dreads it.

Thank you for responding!

Damaged2

I deliberately chose a counselor with experience in addiction. At the time is was because our son is an addict (heroin/meth) so I felt our counselor would need experience in what we're dealing with on that front. She is very savvy and I think she strongly suspects that my AH's drinking is an issue. But I also think she recognizes that it's something we're going to have to bring up, which I fully intend to do. The great thing for me about this forum is that typing out my thoughts, and then answering your questions, makes me really see what's going on. It's like talking to a good friend : ). So when I typed out that we had discussed what to discuss with the counselor, I fully realized that that was not good. In fact, though, it was the first time we'd done that. I think my AH was very scared that I was going to bring up his drinking --- because for the first time I had called him an alcoholic. I think deep down he knows it's an issue in our relationship and will need to be addressed eventually. I'm trying to give him the grace to get there on his own. But if he doesn't, I will address it in counseling.

I don't really have anyone to talk to in my real life so you can't know how much I appreciate you and everyone who has taken the time to weigh in.

Damaged2

Trailmix - I've really been thinking a lot about what you said in response to my original post. It scared me a lot. I wanted to ignore it and think that you're wrong, you don't know me and my husband. But the fact that I can't stop replaying your words in my mind is an indication to me that I need to pay attention to what you're saying. You made a lot of good points, and your analogy about being smacked in the head hit home. Abuse is abuse.

"If you suddenly became extroverted and wore a tool/cleaning supplies belt and became Ms. Fixit, he would just find something new."

This made me chuckle --- the visual of it --- but you are 100% right. He would find something new. And this actually helped a lot. You helped me like myself the way I am. I'm not a bad person. Yes, I'm introverted. That's just the way I am and always have been. But I'm kind, and loving, and loyal. And I work really hard (usually 9-10 hour days at my job). And I did all the child-rearing stuff when our kids were little --- shopping, cooking, laundry, cleaning, getting them to/from school, making sure they did homework. Almost all of it. And I have a great relationship with both of my kids, even our son who is an addict (heroin/meth - he's currently in recovery). They call me when they need to talk or need some advice, and sometimes they call me just to say hello. They are wonderful people, in spite of everything they dealt with growing up.

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of friends. Part of it is my introversion, but a bigger part of it is that my AH isolated us years ago. I used to have a bigger social circle, but when our son started having issues, my husband would forbid me from talking to anyone about what was going on. What he would actually say when I was getting ready to go out and meet someone (family or friends) is: "You're not going to say anything about J are you?" I had fully intended to talk about what was happening in my life --- that's what you do with friends. But then my husband would talk me out of it and I would feel disloyal if I said anything. So I wouldn't say anything. But, of course, that was all I could think about so I would appear distant and checked out when I was with other people and eventually it just got a lot easier to avoid talking to anyone other than work people or my husband.

So the irony now is that my AH says he's afraid of our future together because he's the only one I have in my life and it's too much pressure for him to be the only person that I lean on. Ha!

It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic. And now I feel like I can't reach out to any of my friends because even though I think I'm a pretty great person, I'm actually a lousy friend because I haven't reached out over the years. So now it would seem like I'm only reaching out because I need something. And I don't trust myself that I could maintain contact, and I really don't want to be that person who only reaches out when they need something, and then disappears again. Like the girls in high school who were only friends with you when they weren't dating someone, but disappeared when they had a boyfriend.

dandylion

Damaged......think about it this way---you have not become disconnected from friends and family because it is your nature to be a "fair -weather friend"....but, because you have become isolated in order to serve your husbands desires...and, you silenced your voice in order to satisfy him.
You did so because you acquiesced to the control of your partner. (the how and why of this, we can explore, later.
You Know that you are not a "fair-weather friend". Anyone who you reach out to...either former people in your life or new acquaintences will see this in you...especially, if you give them an idea of what you have been under.

It is not typical, for even "introverts" to totally isolate themselves from relationships. I suspect that you may placing too much blame on introversion. Even introverts have friends. All humans need some meaningful connections....we are basically, a social species.

Perhaps, you are too self-critical.....?!

I don't believe that you can be happy and thrive...to be your true potential...to thrive and not just exist....if you are kept under a bushel....and, live in a corner out of the Light.

pizza67

trailmix

And this is an example of that ohh you are too introverted / not doing enough situation.

Now you are too much of a burden!

Right.

I actually rolled my eyes after typing that. Why? Because really, that makes no sense.

Perhaps think of it this way. If you were so inclined and you are unhappy with your life, what great items for blame could you come up with. Most of us aren't set up to do that. We aren't nagging someone about their transgressions (you left the pan in the sink again!!) each day. Because we don't have to.

His life is obviously crumbling and he can either blame most of it on being an alcoholic or he can blame you, or the sun being too bright or the neighbour parking their car in front of your house or the world full of unruly, stupid people or anyone else, except himself.

Why? Because once he takes responsibility for his life and his situation he has to actually DO something about it (action, not words). It also means people would probably expect him to quit drinking.

PattyW123

This is so spot on but I keep finding hope as the good times last longer. He does APPEAR to be trying but any attempt at a real discussion is only answered with "oh, you're baiting me, I see" or "oh, just another game, I'm not going into your rabbit hole". This is over very simple stuff, just trying to have a civil discussion about how I felt during the abuse moment, though I'd never call it abuse to him because it leads to talks of him leaving "if that's what I think". He is truly 90% wonderful but on those 10% moments he becomes a total stranger. It only starts when I try to get his attention, like if he is drinking and I want to talk or cuddle, then this switch flips and I'm labeled as someone who never shuts up even though we are apart for the majority of the day. When I lost my job, I was "lazy". When I get a job, I'll "never follow through with it and just quit cuz that's how it always goes" (it doesn't). Most first days at new jobs he will start a massive fight the night before til I cry so hard that it shows in my face the next day. Lately it's been on the 3rd or 4th day that abuse begins, and sure enough I'm too ashamed to go to work because I can't hide my face. Again, I have held many jobs for long periods of time but whenever he gets bad, I stumble. And as I search for anything new he just reminds me how I "always fail at the follow through", with no recognition for holding the previous job. And again, this is rare but it's his favorite hit to take. To call me lazy or a quitter.

I guess I'm just here to vent because I'm 3 days into a new job and it's happening again but this time I'm not crying. I finally built my wall and am done letting the game continue. I will succeed. I will do well and put some money in my pocket so I am safe. He might think he has done it again but I will not give him the satisfaction of seeing me weak.

I am still staying with him because I do believe he sincerely sees and hates this side of himself as well. I just wish there was a blacklist for booze where you could tell stores not to sell to someone like him. If he couldn't get it, he would stop. But even bars will over serve him when I've pleaded with them to stop. High functioning.

He is a good guy on the 90% when he hasn't over indulged, but that 10% is getting harder to swallow. I hope he finds his reason because sober him hates drunk him as much as I do, sincerely. But I can't give up on the 90% that I love because he matches me perfectly and we have decades under our belt.

Rambling, but just writing it as I feel now. This seems like a safe space to just put it all on the table and not be judged for staying for the Jekyll. I'm just not going to acknowledge Hyde anymore and see if he goes away.

edoering

Just used the Jekyll/Hyde metaphor again today! It’s a good one, and you’re so right, lots of people here get it!

Something to consider—at some point, Hyde might try to destroy the relationship and push you away so you’re not even invited to see Jekyll anymore.

My (soon to be ex) husband was his Dr. Jekyll for 6-7 years. With NO Mr. Hyde interruptions. I’d never met Hyde and thought I never would. I thought Jekyll “won” when my AH went to rehab before I met him. Addiction was a story in his past. If I’m honest, I secretly thought my husband was “cured” (even though I knew that’s not how addiction works, I thought we were special, haha!). And then when Hyde showed up it was like being married to a stranger, someone I’d never met before who looked like and sounded like my husband but was nothing like him. And basically overnight Hyde wanted a divorce, and that was it.

Sometimes it’s about if we can handle Hyde or not, but sometimes that option is taken off the table for us. Especially if Hyde sees us as a threat, someone or something that stands between our addicted loved one’s and their alcohol/drugs/etc.

FallenAngelina

One of the main illustrations of the story is that Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde are the same person. There is no separating them. Every active alcoholic is this character, this man with two faces. Important to know about our loved ones when we struggle to live with active alcoholism.

FallenAngelina

For me, it became about realizing how much of myself I was compromising and abandoning in order to handle Mr. Hyde. The healthier I got, the more I realized how very much of myself I had been minimizing so that the relationship could keep going.

AliLong

Holding Your sss's. This is hilarious because they do say the dumbest things, pick at the most ridiculous things!!! How dare you speak with an S extension!!! Good grief. Stories of alcholic attacks..should be a book. Although none of this funny ever, after leaving and being far far far away, its hideous!!!! So so so abusive!

PeacefulWater12

Thank you for sharing this, this became true for me as well. My first realisation was that I was bending myself into being a person I wasn't. Second realisation was that it didn't make any difference anyway. Late AH was going to pull his stuff REGARDLESS of what I was doing!

Booooom! It was all within him and his mental illness not about me at all. I was just an extra in his theatre play.

Freedom awaits once we can see that.