bluelight44

Hi everyone,

I hate to say it, but I have been in contact and have seen my XAB after breaking up with him about a month ago. He reached out and asked if we could talk when I was still raw. And believe me I know and understand the reason for going no contact. (I think now I need to have a conversation with him about that and explain that I can't be in touch for some time to allow for us to heal and move on.) I caved and we talked- but I did not agree to get back together or anything, although we have seen each other more than once. ugh. I really felt like this last break up was it. Him picking me up at the airport, swaying, was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

Now he has landed a new job- wonderful company, great position for him, great compensation. He feels he is on top of the world. And I find myself feeling like he might have cleaned up (maybe less week night drinking? I have no idea though.) his act a little now that he has to show up professionally in a demanding position. He seems like he is not drinking as much during the week because I am sure he can't show up to work hung over and do a good job. He is sort of acting more responsibly.. more so than when he was looking for a job and drinking during the day at least.

I often think about the progressiveness of alcoholism and try to see that in him. Granted I have only known this man for 8 months. He says he used to drink so much more (quantity) that it would frighten me. And that when anyone brings up his drinking, it is laughable because he used to drink so much more. Is he/ the alcoholism progressively getting worse? (He is a self proclaimed high functioning Alcoholic- like he is proud of it!) Is the alcoholism progressing? If so, why does it not appear so? It appears now he can control it a bit. Appear being the operative word. I know I don't see all of his drinking, so I can't ever know what he really does in his own time. But it seems it is not progressing in fact maybe there is less drinking- great new job that he is taking seriously and possibly making an effort to be able to perform well at work by not drinking so much mid week. I have seen him after work once and he seemed sober. Although, I am sure at his age, his health is declining even if the drinking is less. His body does not appear to be any healthier- in fact maybe worse.

I am sure he is drinking a lot on the weekends... probably thinking that's his time now to get it in.

He has asked me to join him at his family's Thanksgiving. I have basically said we broke up for very a clear reason. What do your parents even think?? (I can't believe I have actually considered going.)

I know I need to close the door and stop the communication. He is in such a soup of denial, and I am still stuck in the web. I should be out there meeting new people. But when I have seen him, at least I don't see him the same way I did when we were so in love. I see him as a selfish and childish man. I feel I have been slowly de-tangling, detaching and separating though. I think part of me wants that healthy resolution that can come with a break up, but I know that will never happen here.

Thanks for reading this ever so long essay....

LifeChangeNYC

NYCDoglvr

Maybe it helps to know both alcoholics and codependents are heavily affected by denial and rationalization. I stayed far to long with a recovering alcoholic because I thought "oh, he'll change." But people don't change. He's still an active alcoholic and the problems that lead to "no contact" are still there no matter what he says. When an alcoholic picks up a drink they have no control over how much they drink and what happens.

Alanon is a wonderful program that was a life-saver for me. I recommend it.

bluelight44

Listen, I don’t want to hurt your feelings and maybe I’m wrong but many addicts want someone to bring home on holidays just for the “appearance” that their life is stable and happy. Do you want to be that type of person? What if he, in fact is just using you?

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Thanks for your comments Life Change: I do see that I am being used to a degree. It's so sad because I don't think he fully intends to use me, but I do see it as how an addict functions. I think he truly wants me in his life not just for appearances- but obviously wanting a relationship is not as strong as the alcoholism. He even said it himself - how depressing or sad ( I can't remember his exact words) it is for a 51 year old man to go home to his family still single. Well, I know the ball is in his court if he wants a healthy relationship. I have been very clear on my needs and things I won't except.

Thanks again. I have been to a couple of Al Anon meetings and I plan to go back.

trailmix

There is no hard and fast rule here at all. My Father was an alcoholic all his life. He didn't drink every day. He also had a job that was located in a "dry" area - and I mean an area so far away from civilization that there was no alcohol (and none permitted). He was there for 2 weeks at a time.

He could catch up on his drinking on breaks away and when he got home.

He did this all his life.

So sure, maybe your XABF can drink a bit less for a while - or forever, doesn't make him "not" an alcoholic. Alcoholics can sometimes moderate their drinking when they have to or want to. Doesn't mean they always will or that they will even be able to tomorrow. Perhaps watch to see him start pushing the boundaries once he gets a little comfortable in his new job.

Progression of alcoholism doesn't necessarily mean progression of amount they are drinking. I am sure he is drinking enough to maintain alcoholic status? It's more about brain function/body function than amount of alcohol consumed. If you were an alcoholic that "only" drank 7 drinks a day for 30 years, no more/no less, would that be considered progression? As an aside, drinking 7 drinks a day at 25 is not the same as drinking 7 drinks a day at 45, when you have been an alcoholic for years.

So really nothing has changed at this point.

See, that is just weird thinking in my opinion. Who cares? He's 51, why is he worried what Mom and Dad are going to think when he shows up for dinner?

AnvilheadII

Granted I have only known this man for 8 months.

absolutely correct - you have only seen a very small snippet of his 51 YEARS of life. his drinking long preceded you, of which you have no experience with, and it will continue long after you.

it is best not to think you know what he is thinking. or feeling. because i assure you - you do not. no matter how long we have known another person, we are NEVER privvy to peeking inside their head and monitoring the thoughts zinging around. we do not know at any given time, what their motives are, agendas, what past event they might be responding to, or what thought they had four seconds ago.

Well, I know the ball is in his court if he wants a healthy relationship. I have been very clear on my needs and things I won't except.

this sounds as if you are quite willing to entertain the notion of re-upping with this guy. is that true? are you thinking that in the past MONTH he has made drastic, significant and long-lasting changes??? because he managed to GET a job and hasn't screwed it up.........yet?

drinking less is not the same as NOT drinking at all, ever. most addicts (unless they are far far progressed) can maintain for short bursts - to get what they want. appear to have their sh!t together, hide the over-consumption, pass a drug test, etc. the important point is SHORT TERM. i only have to gut it out for..........a week, 21 days, a month maybe....THEN i can "relax" and have a drink. in peace.

so what holds you back from shutting the door on this?

Ariesagain

“And believe me I know and understand the reason for going no contact. (I think now I need to have a conversation with him about that and explain that I can't be in touch for some time to allow for us to heal and move on.) ”

Please read these two sentences...do they go together?

You know, the true measure of a person isn’t how they act when things are going well, it’s what happens when they don’t go well. Sooner or later his facade will start to erode and the magic solution that is the new job will turn out to be...a job. And then maybe he starts performing poorly at that job and drinking more....you know whose fault that’s going to be? Yours. For not reading his mind, for not making his life perfect, for not “being cool.”

I swear I dated this guy. Everything is about his image. Does he want to take you to Thanksgiving because he thinks you would enjoy it? No, it’s because he’ll look bad if he shows up single. Nice.

From the outside, having followed your threads, you’re clearly a smart woman. It’s also clear that this relationship is seven kinds of messed up and yet you’re still very much involved. You see him as a “selfish and childish man.” Yes, he is. I think sometimes as women our nurturing instincts get screwed up and we keep seeing that child instead of the man. But he’s a 51-year-old adult.

The longer you stay involved on any level, the more entrenched you will get. His problems are much bigger than just alcoholism...that’s just something that you’re holding out hope is fixable, yes?

I very much hope you find it in yourself to move on. I can tell you that I never once, not one moment, looked back and was sorry I dumped my XAB, the one who sounds just like yours.

Wishing you strength and clarity...

bluelight44

Thanks Anvil Head. I appreciate your straight-forwardness.
I am not entertaining re-starting with him. I don't want to be in a relationship with him. He is clearly broken. I was just commenting on how if he wanted a gf- I was very clear about what was not working. He had his chance to shape up.

I am sure you are all correct in that he (or an addict) can pull things together for a little while. I am definitely seeing the truth through the roses now. If that makes sense...

bluelight44

Thank you Trailmix
This makes sense... I guess I was picturing the progression of alcoholism to look something like a falling apart of the external life - work, relationship (well I guess this is happening in this case), health, etc. Or a progression into a continued loss of control over the drinking, more drinking or accidents happening, DUI, etc.

What Anvil head pointed out I'm sure is the case- someone like this can pull it together when needed for a time. So maybe I am just seeing all these snipits of time that seem to be on different parts of the spectrum- but in the end he is drinking regularly, probably daily, and will probably always have the bottle by his side even if he seemingly shapes up for a new job.

I do feel like I am de tangling. All I see is the addiction now. I trust I will close this door for good soon. Thank you all for the continued support.
Coming here always helps so much.

trailmix

What you've just described is spot on in my opinion.

It can be increased drinking (and don't get me wrong, my Father still drank huge amounts when he could, at times). It's just not necessarily linear for everyone.

In fact if you read the newcomers forum there are many stories of people "pulling it together" for long periods of time. They may have been in recovery and decided hey! I think I can manage drinking, am I really even an alcoholic? So they try to maintain some kind of normal drinking (moderating). Some are successful for a couple of years even, but inevitably it all comes crashing down. I have yet to read 1 story where the person was successful.

Schne

Hopeworks

bluelight44

I'm so so sorry for your loss. This is all so tragic. And it sadly seems to be so common.

And I know you are giving me the best advice.

What i am seeing in his behavior right now is just a facade of "look another reason I don't have a problem.. I landed a fantastic job... my career is going up."
Thank you

velma929

Well, it could also be that his tolerance has increased, and he could actually be drinking more and better able to hide it.

I had a bf who asked me to his family's barbecue a year after our relationship ended. He'd never told them he had dumped me.

pdm22

I think it can be deceptive when you look at the most extreme example, worst case scenario. When you yourself are participating in something you don’t want to or aren’t ready to stop, or looking at someone else’s behavior, when you look at the worst case scenario, and think “well it’s not *that* bad”. And maybe it never will be, or maybe it’s not that bad *yet* and will get to that point eventually. But at some point you have to decide when it’s bad enough, for you.

Also, not long ago I was having a conversation with someone about her long term person, and we were discussing how for some people struggling with alcoholism and addiction, they might have that one thing that they are still good at, and hold it together for. Her person is able to hold it together for, and is very good at his job, but struggles with his relationships with women. Plus he’s destroying his health. So maybe getting to the point where employment is an issue won’t be what helps destroy him and take him out, but his health isn’t going to get any better if he keeps this up.

My best friend who died last year, was able to maintain his female friendships and relationship with his family, but had more “issues stuff” with his romantic relationships with guys, and taking care of himself financially, housing, manintaining employment were all thing that he struggled with. He didn’t destroy his relationships with his friends and family, but the alcohol/ substances being mixed took him out nonetheless (funny how that works :/ ).

Also there’s problem drinking, and then there’s alcohol dependence (where you are going to go into withdrawal when you stop). But if you are a problem drinker and don’t have a physical dependence (yet), but you are participating in high risk behavior, having problems with your relationships or employment, having financial problems, etc, so what that you can hold it together temporarily sometimes? All of the other things are still an issue all the same.

I don’t know, but it’s tricky, and it doesn’t play out the same way for everyone.

Sasha1972

You’ve only known him for eight months, and you’re already scrutinizing his behavior, trying to determine if he’s drinking and if so how much because you know you can’t trust him to be honest with you? I regret to say I see much more of the same in your future if you remain involved with him (including talking about your relationship, visiting his parents, having him pick you up at the airport, etc). Constant monitoring is not a good way to have any kind of relationship - it’s inherently unstable and leads to weird control games on the part of both the drinker and the non-drinker.

Eight months is not long in the drinking career of an alcoholic. Many of them have stretches when they function well, but these stretches get progressively shorter and the “lows” get worse. The pace of decline usually picks up towards the end.

Kokoro

Hiya,
I wanted to reply yesterday but got sidetracked. Had a look at some of your posts.

I have a genuine question; what makes you still want to keep in contact with him? He has been yelling at you and blaming you for his mistakes. He sounds horrid! He's 51...I'm 29 and I know that is just not on. Hell most 18 year olds would know that. He is acting out like a teenager.

I will share my experience and thoughts leading to my break up. Roughly 8 months into my relationship, I had discovered he was an alcoholic. At the time I put it down to various stressors happening at the time for him (I was stressed with new job, he had to jump through hoops to get his licence and professional job back, etc). I was like okay those stressors will pass. And he actually admitted to the problem which was key and agreed to abstinence and attending a program. He had another lapse 2 weeks after (which I only found out by accident) but still let it go.

Fast forward a year, job back (although still jumping some hoops but nearly coming to an end), had a new side business which was stressful but what he wanted and was getting better. He had, if I say so myself, a pretty, kind and loyal girl by his side whom he was going to put a ring on it. His other relationships were mending as well.

Yet he drank. And ****ed everything up.

What I am trying to get is even if things are going well, it does not stop them from being an alcoholic. There will ALWAYS be an excuse no matter what. Your guy has still not acknowledged he has a problem which is worrying. The time scale for how long he had been drinking as well is worrying.

Stay away from this guy hun. No contact really is the way to stop yourself on the slippery slope. I know, I struggled too with this but I know it is right. Functional alcoholism really is only a phase. I have seen it in the rooms as cautionary tales for myself.

Hugs X

bluelight44

Thank you Kokoro. I appreciate your comment and sharing your story. This has got to be the hardest thing I have walked through- and as I say that I know many of you have been involved with an A for much longer and endured so much more with kids, etc. Sometimes I feel silly for writing my story here since it is so clear what to do and I have only been involved with him for less than a year- yet it has been so hard, like I am stuck in silly putty or quick sand.

I just love this man so much. and as I try to go no contact, the idea of never having him in my life again seems unfathomable.

Since i have known him, he has said things all over the spectrum like "I am what society would call an alcoholic to in a fit of anger I don't really think the drinking is the problem with our relationship" -telling me I am the only one in his life who thinks it is. All classic stuff. So sometimes he admits to having a problem (in the beginning of our relationship he wanted to get help and get on Naltrexone which he did for a very short amount of time)

I guess what I am realizing and trying to assist myself in seeing is just that he is an addict (which will always be the case especially since he is not interested in changing his ways) and that is the most front and center issue- and as an addict will carry on with maintaining the addiction comes the manipulation (whether intentional/ conscious or not?) and the aggressiveness when receiving push back. I wish I could remember more the times he was cruel and aggressive with me- not the sweet and tender, playful times. And yes at 51 it is sad to see a man act like a teenager so much. Actually it's not very attractive.

To answer your question: What makes me want to still remain in contact with him? Great question- I guess I am afraid to loose him for good...? I have friends and support and can fill my free time with loved ones, so I don't think it is trying to fill a void- but he and I have become so close like we are best friends- So I feel like I am loosing a meaningful, close person out of my life. I know that all sounds screwed up to say given his history of behavior with me.

I am trying to tell myself that I will most likely meet another man and have a similar or even deeper connection with that might be even more magical than this one...

trailmix

Please don't feel that way. I never think that you know. I have read stories here of relationships that have gone on for a few weeks, some for 30 years. All of them are important. Your relationship might not have been for 30 years but that doesn't mean it wasn't important, doesn't mean that you didn't get very hurt and doesn't mean that your feelings are somehow wrong.

So 3 weeks, 30 years or 8 months, it's never about the time, it's about what you need to talk about and what you need support for. Now sometimes you might get a reply like - you are better off without him, time to move on! That might seem dismissive to you, I understand that and I'm sure it's hurtful sometimes, but never let a reply or different story diminish what you need and want to post. Heck post anytime you feel like it, lots of people here who care.

You can remember by writing it all down and reading it. Over and over.

Frankly, what you have written above does not sound very "magical", sounds more abusive and controlling? Instead of imagining the magical part, think about what it would be like living with someone who is abusive year after year after year.

Having children would be off the table, bringing children in to a household where you know the person is an active addict is just asking for heartbreak.

Maybe those thoughts are the ones to focus on right now? Having Dad drunk on the sofa when you return with the kids from soccer is no magical time? How about Christmas, when Dad is drunk or hung over. You basically become a single parent.

That's the reality.

Ariesagain

Here is a link to your previous threads. Please read your words, over and over.

Your truth isn’t ours, so it’s easier to ignore others’ posts.

But your words are YOURS... please pay attention to them.

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...archid=8734221