Aeryn

I have a dry family member (never worked a program, attended a bit of outpatient but never took it seriously) that has been "sober" for many years (quotes because he's not drinking but also not recovered). This person has recently moved near me and is back in my life and I'm finding him a nightmare to deal with and be around (I have a young daughter too).

He's negative, judgemental, angry, critical and overall just the most grumpy unhappy person on earth. He's always asking me for favors, never returning them and imposing his opinions on me (so annoying...unwanted advise).

First is this typical dry drunk behavior?

I have zero doubts...I'm one hundred percent sure he's not drinking and I don't see him picking up...but I also see an angry person I really would rather not have around....I'm sort of stuck with him a bit (I promised his dad) but my plan is to keep him at arm's length and interact with him minimally. That said in those few interactions any tips on how to deal with him?

My codie days are over so I'm not in it to save him...if he doesn't want to get real recovery that's on him (so no I have no plans to try to help him find a counselor or any of that..he knows about those resources and can do that himself should he change his mind)...but I do want our minimal interactions to be as pleasant as possible.

Ringo123

Good for you for wanting minimal contact. I once worked with a dry drunk--no one in the office wanted to interact with him and since I was the newbie, I had to do it. Thankfully I was sober in AA, did my best to be polite to the guy and not get sucked into his negativity.

I have been a dry drunk during my time in AA. I wouldn't have wanted to be around me back then! Thank goodness I didn't drink, I hit an emotional bottom and was able to 'start over' so to speak.

I wouldn't believe a word he says. A dry drunk can lie as much as a wet drunk. I hope you have a strong spine; your post indicates that you do. (smile) Heck, you get to practice assertiveness (not letting him getting over on you, standing your ground, limiting contact).

I suppose one might suggest you check out Al-Anon or CODA. You are wise to be pleasant but not help him. I have seen some of the most arrogant, irritable drunks get sober and turn out be decent people. (I am one of them.)

God bless you and good luck.

Aeryn

Thanks Ringo.....at least I know my situation is not unique...I laughed at the office guy no one wanted to talk to because my family member has the same problem at work, he was going on and on the other day about how people seemed afraid of him at work. LMAO....I was thinking well they don't want to hear all your complaining and anger!!

I'm going to have to do some yoga and meditation to work on my chi I suppose because it takes a lot for me to remain pleasant and not let him get under my skin.

hearthealth

I do. It sounds like my H. It's very difficult to have any two way comversation. It helps to realize that there will be no meaningful discussion.

Aeryn

Good advice....I often feel I'm being talked at not to...especially with the unwanted advice...what I've been trying to do is just nod while he says it then I say "I'll take that into consideration." Kind of like when I was with my XRAH and he was actively drinking and would be mean....then I would just say "ok" to a lot of the ranting.

It's new to me to have someone be dry...my only experience prior to this is with fully active wet A's and RA's. And he's been dry YEARS...he seems so miserable to me, it can't be fun to be him right now so I try to keep that in mind when I feel myself getting irritated with him, that way I have some sympathy and don't snap back.

tomsteve

Aeryn, do ya know what boundaries are, how to implement them, and enforce them?

and thanks,ringo. took away my uniqueness that i was the only person that ever was a dry drunk in AA!
it was pretty miserable from what i was told, but didnt recognize that until i got into solutions.

Givenup2018

I think he has a crap attitude, it is his character, cannot always blame it on the drink

Refiner

He was most likely a miserable, angry drunk. Take away the booze and he’s a miserable, angry person. “Drink” may have nothing to do with it.

wehav2day

Aeryn, sorry for what brings you here, but welcome nonetheless!

In my (non)expert opinion, it’s one of two things:

He’s a dry drunk, and sober but definitely not recovered

He’s a garden variety *******

Not sure which, but neither can be pleasant for you. Sounds like you know what to do. Minimal contact. Don’t take him personally.

Usually folks like that bring out deep gratitude that I don’t have to live in their head. Good luck.

wehav2day

Oops it fully bleeped my word. Donkey body part

Let’s go with garden variety jackwagon... lol

MindfulMan

My ex (thankfully) boss was a vicious toxic horrible person. She had issues when she was still drinking, but became a nightmare about a year after she got sober....after she'd "finished" working the steps. She seriously became one of the most miserable human beings I've ever had to deal with.

Nothing you can do. I had to see her every day until I left. Fortunately your interactions with your relative can be mercifully brief.

He may just be a bitter angry person, drunk or sober, but I've found there's a certain particular flavor of toxicity to an abusive person that's also abstinent but not sober.

Wamama48

I have been fortunate to never have met someone like the person you describe. How absolutely miserable. I can't understand why someone would keep living that way. There is so much help available. I think you are very wise to limit your time with him to almost nothing. How draining and sad to be around someone like that.

MindfulMan

OMG I love your dog. English Mastiff?

Pwned by a Rottweiler myself. Big dogs rule.

Sorry for the distraction, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Wamama48

Lol, yes she's an EM. Rotties are gorgeous, gentle dogs, and yes, big dogs rule. For future reference, if you ever get the chance to go hunting for edible mushrooms in the future, don't take your big dog. They don't watch where they are stepping. Lol

August252015

Oh yes, my family experienced this with my mother at various stages during her active alcoholism. In many ways it was the worst of the whole thing- she wasn't drinking but acted exactly like she was when drinking. It was at first confusing for a teen child, then infuriating, then frustrating then partially understood....

I echo the comments above about boundaries- I used to comment ALL the time that my family had no idea what they were. Since I have gotten sober- I am at 25 mo and change- setting and keeping them on MY side has been something huge I have learned and continue to learn and act upon.

To me, being a dry drunk is one of the worst things one can "do" in this disease. It is definitely a pejorative but an excruciatingly true one.

Best to you.

Aeryn

I agree with this and basically what everyone else said take the drink away from an angry miserable drunk and you're left with an angry miserable person (the whole drunk horse thief saying). I do think there is a flavor of toxicity to this above and beyond a regular angry person though, it's icky. It proves alcohol was the "solution" not the problem as they say in AA.

For everyone asking about boundaries I have an XRAH and I was with him when he was active so I have some practice...I just have to dust off some of the things I haven't needed for a while. I'm not going to let his misery or anger rub off on me that's for sure! As someone said it gives me gratitude that whatever is going on inside his head isn't going on inside mine! And as for the un-repaid favors I've caught on so it's time to stop those....no more help with the electric bill since I now know I won't be repaid....ugh...my bad....lesson learned.

Sleepyhollo

Almost 4 years ago my RAH quit drinking for 13 months and he was still a miserable person to be around, grumpy, reactive, always tired etc. He no longer had his one coping mechanism. He was exactly like his dad and got worse as time went on. After 13 months he started again and drank for a year before I was finally done. I gave him an ultimatum and sinc eh himself had gotten to a point where he felt like he needed to do something he did get treatment. He was sent to rehab (because of his job) and was there for 90 days, I cut off most contact during that time because he continued to be a manipulative ass. It took him 7 weeks before he finally started seeing his ways. He has been out for 15 months and is doing very well and has changed a lot. He is much less reactive, he no longer hates his job even though the job hasn’t changed (he now has healthy ways of dealing with the stress). So while some people are just a..holes regardless I also do believe that if someone really gets the right treatment and lots of therapy (which is a lot in 90 days of inaptient rehab and then continued meeting and therapy) and are motivated to change they can. But it takes a lot of work. His dad was an alcoholic and quit several years ago but never got any sort of treatment so he never changed.
Despite the fact that my RAH has changed a lot I really feel that it came too late for me. I have been with him for 16 years and during that time I suffered a lot and it really changed my feelings for him. We have had to work through a lot in marriage counseling which is needed regardless of whether we survive or not.

So yes people can change but it takes a lot of work and willingness to change. I myself have had to change my codependent ways and it hasn’t been easy. We’ve both changed a lot for the better but I don’t think I can come back from this....too much hurt over a long time. But at least whatever happens our kid will benefit from parents that are a lot less dysfunctional so hopefully we can stop the dysfunction cycle with her

Loveisallweneed

This sounds a lot like my dad! And what I believe to be part of my problem! I let him move in with me after my brother passed and three years later it took a huge row for him to leave! I don’t blame him for my problems with alcohol but it definitely didn’t help! Every girl needs her dad and well... he’s just not!! A very selfish angry man! And although sometimes I would say if I was that miserable I’d just drink, I don’t know if I would... if that makes sense! Men especially I feel don’t know how to deal with feelings, especially huge life experiences like losing his only son! But he makes me feel like I’m not enough! It can be very upsetting whether he means it or not!

MIRecovery

There will always be toxic people in our lives. My advice is to get rid of them as fast as you can. I had a new boss that was a dry drunk. I couldn’t get rid of the boss so I got rid of the job.

There are too many wonderful people in the world for me to waste time and energy on those that subtract from my life.

Alcohol was not the problem, alcohol was the solution. When our solution is taken away we better have some coping mechanisms to take its place.