AnvilheadII

would this behavior be "good enough" or "acceptable" for the babysitter, day care worker or teacher?

tomsteve

imo, they are confused and learning. they look at you for an answer because they trust you.
and no answer very well could be ingraining in them like,"mom doesnt say anything, so dad isnt drinking too much and its normal."

which could lead to a very messed up future for them

Sasha1972

You are in a really tough situation. No matter what you do (leave or stay), the kids' lives will be disrupted. The question is what kind of disruption? The disruption of not living with dad full time, or the disruption of living with an alcoholic father?

I left an alcoholic husband after 25 years. There were many reasons but my daughter was the biggest one. I knew that she would be better off with parents living in two different households than if she was living full time in an alcoholic household. In my case, this was absolutely the right decision. Kid was 6 when I left, so by now she has spent half her life with two households (currently only one, as her father's condition has deteriorated a lot).

When I left, I thought I knew the extent of my ex's drinking, but it was a lot more than I had guessed. He was pretty much drinking non-stop (bottles hidden everywhere), and it got even worse after I left. So it's possible that your husband may be drinking more than you see.

I think you have nothing to lose by considering your options. How could you get yourself into a position where you could support yourself financially if you left? What kinds of parenting arrangements might work so that your sons maintain contact with their father but are less exposed to his unpredictability and temper? This doesn't mean you have to get a divorce right away (or ever), but it's worth allowing yourself to think about what you could do.

I think it's significant that your kids are aware of their father's drinking and they're looking to you for clues as to whether this is okay and normal, or not.

aliciagr

Have you ever considered working with a therapist who might be able to help you weigh out the decision?

Also, have you discussed your concern about the kids with your husband? From what you posted, he used to drink more several years ago but reduced his drinking when you stopped and expressed concerns over the quantity he consumed. I see your concern too over the kids as they get older and how they may become desensitized to the dangers of alcohol, or put a positive twist on its use if they feel their dads behavior is normal or healthy. Might it prompt him to take another look at his behaviors and drinking pattern? I wont begin to try and advise what you should do, but my thoughts are with you. And, thank you for sharing.

Maudcat

Therapy can be helpful, with a good therapist who has expertise in addictions in families.
I attended therapy sessions early in sobriety.
I wanted to try to figure out why I could drink normally for so many years of my life, then bam!
I know lots more now about the condition than I did then.
I was also going to AA, which, at the end of the day, was not the program for me.
My therapist was a true blue 12 step guy, and he was not open to other programs.
We parted ways, amicably.
My point is, therapy is great and helpful.
With the right therapist.

PerSe

Maudcat & Aliciagr, thanks so much for that recommendation. Yes, I am working on getting in to see a therapist as well as going to the weekly alanon meetings.

It's so overwhelming - the degree to which our lives are enmeshed - the boys mainly, but also financially. After 18 years I know I would be alright being alone (if I get this job I'm hoping for), but it's so hard to imagine separating the boys from him. Hopefully the therapist can help me to sort all this out.

Thank you again.

LexieCat

It might be helpful to think of it as his separating HIMSELF from his family. Because that is exactly what alcohol does. I found myself MUCH less lonely living by myself than with an alcoholic who is "checked out" most of the time. No doubt kids experience something similar. Is it more hurtful to have dad living someplace else and getting to see him when he's "all there" (more or less), or to have him drunk, sleeping, or hungover so much of the time when he's living in the house?

dandylion

PerSe....a good move to see a therapist, I think.....
The domestic violence center could give you a good referral to the proper therapist...why don't you call and ask them.....
I understand that you are afraid of making him angry.....as you can see, there are sources of help to guide you in dealing with that part...
About your fear of separating the boys from him...if you are worried about the boys reaction....remember, first, that fears are not necessarily fact...
I see it said over and over, on this forum, how the children begin to relax after they are out of the alcoholic home....that they seem as relieved as the adult....
It does not mean that they lose contact with their father....(but, it might mean that the contact is contact is monitored or supervised in some way...and with good boundaries put into place)....

I think the more you find out the realities of the situation...and your rights,,,,and what help is really available....the more your fears will stop paralyzing you....
Keep reading and researching and reaching out for help....
Knowledge is power....
Knowing that you have support and help...that you don't have to walk this alone, will help....a lot!

FallenAngelina

This is what's called slapping a happy face sticker over a gas gauge that's on empty.

aliciagr

I know the boys are your top priority as they should be, but I think you also need to think about yourself in all of this. How you feel about the marriage and if its fulfilling to you, family life in general, etc.

My husband and I are expecting our first child. We have been separated a couple of months due to a catastrophic mess of last year when he was drinking and using drugs. We are working on things and I hope we can reconcile, but I also have concerns about the future and most of it is related to our child. I would also be ok on my own which is a blessing in itself, but the thing is-my husband is a good man, and life has been happy for us, except for those chunks of time when he binged. And so it leads to a lot of tough decisions on my part.

I attended Alanon for a while, but found therapy to be more helpful overall. I chose a psychologist who actually specialized in addiction medicine, so its not specific to the 12 step program which Ive found beneficial. There are a lot of resources out there for families, and even for children. Its great you are reaching out for support in various ways and taking your time to find the answers needed for you and your family.

PerSe

Thank you. I needed that. Yes I did.

TimeForMe

PerSe -

I grew up with an alcoholic father, and a mother who tried to protect us by minimizing the amount and impact of the alcohol consumption.

They divorced when I was 18. By that time, I could not stand being around my father. I then married an alcoholic and continued the cycle of denying / minimizing / covering up / cleaning up my now XAH's messes.

From my personal experience, and to answer your original question - it was NOT by any stretch or definition of the word, "better" that my father stayed.

In addition, I "learned" how to be co-dependent by my mother modeling that behavior, and I accepted unhealthy behavior in a partner because I never saw what a healthy marriage should look like.

So, when you wonder if it's "better" for your kids to not see their father on a daily basis, please also consider the family dynamics they are being modeled for them: what does a "healthy" marriage look like, what do "boundaries" look like; when is it ok to say "no" to someone's treatment of you. Your kids are learning how to be adults..from you...and from your husband.

Everyone else also has very good insight, whether or not an ACoA like myself.

Thanks for sharing your story. Thinking of you and your kids.

atalose

I know you feel overwhelmed, confused and unsure of things right now but one thing that is for sure it’s not healthy for children to grow up in an addictive environment. They are growing up in dysfunction with a non-addictive parent thinking it is not that bad.

I’m glad you are going to al-anon and looking into therapy. It’s hard for the non-drinking parent to see or realize how detrimental growing up with an addicted parent can be. What you see as normal and not so bad the outside healthy world thinks WTF, that’s how clouded and distorted our thinking becomes.

Just listen to the stores shared in al-anon, see how many of them grew up with addiction and vowed they would never ever marry an addict but they did. History does not repeat itself, people repeat history. Today, you have the ability to re-write your children’s history!

FallenAngelina

That your husband careens from drill sergeant to fun dad for no other reason than a few drinks is exactly what is damaging to children who grow up in homes where this is going on every single day. Add in a mother who thinks things are not so bad because the dad has good days and kids need their father and you've got a terribly toxic environment. There's no getting around it that an addiction in the home is torture on the entire family with repercussions that last a lifetime.

FireSprite

My honest opinion as an ACoA is that children cannot separate their parent from the addiction.

They cannot comprehend emotionally detaching with love from a parent at ages this young.

They cannot stop the way that living with active addiction & active codependency weave emotional damage directly alongside their fundamental growth as human beings. Nor can they tell you in words what's happening so you can keep the damage minimized as it happens - which, frankly, is also exhausting.

But that stuff WILL show. It'll show in their social skills and their neediness or their fears or boldness. It evidences so differently in children even living in the same family dynamic. Sometimes we can see the early behaviors in children based simply on their birth order in the family:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ic-family.html

FireSprite

Yep - they think, what can I do differently about myself to make sure Dad is having one of his GOOD days?

And in the absence of that happening, what is wrong with me that Dad is always so angry with me?

They can't NOT personalize every experience because the scope of their world IS that small & only focused on themselves. (as it should be at these ages)

FallenAngelina

Or ignores me or is so sad or is so preoccupied or whatever dad's drunken and hungover behavior is. This is what kids are left with, not the fun drunken dad memories. This is what they will replicate in their own adult intimate relationships. This is the damage on the children of an actively alcoholic parent. Children turn all of this into "what is wrong with me?"

Mango blast

Thinking of you. Sending good thoughts and warm wishes for GOODNESS in your life.

One day at a time... one breath at a time.

You are important.

You're asking great questions, getting curious and are open to receiving help. Those HUGE steps on a path in a good direction.

One day at a time... one breath at a time.

Trust in the process. It's simple, even if it seems counter-intuitive.... it didn't seem simple when I was hurting and caught up in my pain, but by following others who've been through this, I was able to connect with my intuition and gut feelings instead of reacting out of fear, obligation and guilt.

One day at a time... one breath at a time.