Do Alcoholics KNOW they are lying deliberately?
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Ituvia.....c an you go to the website that I just posted, above (Floyd P. garrett letters)....I had you in mind when I posted it....it deals with lying in one of those papers....in several of them, actually......
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ABF sat in my house and said that he will be back from rehab and we will be together forever. Not that I believed it wholeheartedly but just seems like something people will not be able to lie about so easily with a straight face.
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In general I agree, but on this particular issue, when I figured out that ex actually believed many of the strange things he said - he had not formed the conscious intent to lie - it helped me to see him as someone with mental health problems rather than just someone being a jerk, and that enabled me to feel a bit more compassion.
I see what you mean from your perspective. I think we are at a different stage cos I feel absolutely nothing for my ex be in compassion, hatred or love. I've never thought of my exes compulsive lying as a symptom of a mental health issue either. It was usually an ass covering exercise he knew full well he was engaging in.
I see what you mean from your perspective. I think we are at a different stage cos I feel absolutely nothing for my ex be in compassion, hatred or love. I've never thought of my exes compulsive lying as a symptom of a mental health issue either. It was usually an ass covering exercise he knew full well he was engaging in.
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
Ituvia.....c an you go to the website that I just posted, above (Floyd P. garrett letters)....I had you in mind when I posted it....it deals with lying in one of those papers....in several of them, actually......
Yes, Dandylion. I've read the papers multiple times
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I went through this "WHY" stage w/my XAH. I tried so hard to figure him out. Then one day, I realized I have to actually listen to myself. To look at actions, don't listen to words. His actions showed me he was not someone I could live with and grow old with. Our morals and values don't match up, and never will.
Eventually, you have to get past the WHY of anyone else's behaviors, and control the one thing you can, you own behaviors and reactions.
Eventually, you have to get past the WHY of anyone else's behaviors, and control the one thing you can, you own behaviors and reactions.
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Ituvia...if you have read the papers many times...then you are n ot ever going to get a better explanation of the alcoholic's behaviors, than that....
My advice is to stop looking for understanding.....
and start working on acceptance.....
It is going to take more weeks and months to get through the grieving process....so, you would be better of in searching for ways to help yourself navigate that....
LOL///go to the new thread that I just started....by Madea....she has some good advice for you...(For the brokenhearted)......
My advice is to stop looking for understanding.....
and start working on acceptance.....
It is going to take more weeks and months to get through the grieving process....so, you would be better of in searching for ways to help yourself navigate that....
LOL///go to the new thread that I just started....by Madea....she has some good advice for you...(For the brokenhearted)......
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Originally Posted by dandylion
My advice is to stop looking for understanding.....
and start working on acceptance.....
some good advice for you........
and start working on acceptance.....
some good advice for you........
You can turn the whole "why" thing around on yourself....
Why did you NEED to believe HIS LIES???
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
I think sometimes they know they are lying, and sometimes not.
Addiction happens in the brain, and the desire to use the substance becomes from a place very deep. Our body knows we need air. I dont even think about breathing, but if I suddenly have no air then I feel it. My brain begins to panic and then physical struggle begins. That I think is basically what someone who is reliant on substances feel when its withdrawn.
My husband lied for various reasons. To avoid conflict, to make excuses and cover up behaviors. He was also lying to himself and truly believed what he was saying. Some lies.. I dont even think they are lies really.. they are expressions of what they will be done in the future. Its like saying I will lose 5 pounds by the end of the month. Then I try to put action behind the words. It was with good intent that I made the vow to lose weight, but I didnt think of the daily struggle.
I think you need to give all of this time, and step back and see what actions he puts behind his words. He mentioned rehab.. from the experience I went through with my husband - finding the proper treatment that works is not always easy, and if something doesnt work then a person has to keep trying. My husband was in an outpatient, an inpatient with gaps in between that were filled with crazy behavior and more drug and alcohol use. He finally found what worked for him through therapy, but it wasnt a quick process.
Addiction happens in the brain, and the desire to use the substance becomes from a place very deep. Our body knows we need air. I dont even think about breathing, but if I suddenly have no air then I feel it. My brain begins to panic and then physical struggle begins. That I think is basically what someone who is reliant on substances feel when its withdrawn.
My husband lied for various reasons. To avoid conflict, to make excuses and cover up behaviors. He was also lying to himself and truly believed what he was saying. Some lies.. I dont even think they are lies really.. they are expressions of what they will be done in the future. Its like saying I will lose 5 pounds by the end of the month. Then I try to put action behind the words. It was with good intent that I made the vow to lose weight, but I didnt think of the daily struggle.
I think you need to give all of this time, and step back and see what actions he puts behind his words. He mentioned rehab.. from the experience I went through with my husband - finding the proper treatment that works is not always easy, and if something doesnt work then a person has to keep trying. My husband was in an outpatient, an inpatient with gaps in between that were filled with crazy behavior and more drug and alcohol use. He finally found what worked for him through therapy, but it wasnt a quick process.
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Why do you think that him lying about the girls and to the girls has anything to do with being an alcoholic? Some people are players. They lie because in some way, it is rewarding for them. Alcoholics lie to preserve their relationship with alcohol, and codependents lie and manipulate to preserve their relationship with their alcoholic partner, even when it is clearly damaging and self-destructive.
Do not over-analyze. Focus on his actions and your reaction.
Do not over-analyze. Focus on his actions and your reaction.
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you don't KNOW a thing about this guy, really. and that is where you keep letting yourself stay stuck.....there's the guy you thought you knew, you believed all his stories, all his lies, all his promises. and it turns out he was someone else entirely different.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Ituvia....it sounds like he was motivated by whatever felt good in that moment. It probably felt good when he implied marriage to her...and, it kept her on the hook....
It probably felt good when he promised "forever" to you, in that moment...because it kept you on the hook....
Immediate gratification....his gratification....
Just like a drink provides immediate gratification....
You do remember that alcohol messes up the frontal lobes...where logic. planning, and many other executive functions reside....it is sort of like a chemical lobotomy....
It probably felt good when he promised "forever" to you, in that moment...because it kept you on the hook....
Immediate gratification....his gratification....
Just like a drink provides immediate gratification....
You do remember that alcohol messes up the frontal lobes...where logic. planning, and many other executive functions reside....it is sort of like a chemical lobotomy....
My question is, will there be a moment where realization of this need for immediate gratification could be shifted? That its not all about being immediate and it affects others? That's all up to the person I am sure, even on both sides of the "lies." That's what recovery is for right?
Stepping back, letting things be, and realizing your self worth.
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How would you define lying? I think that it is very difficult to tell where lying starts...
My alcoholic friend never actually lied to me. When drunk he could become very dramatic but what he said then was all true. On the other hand he avoids to tell me things and just does not talk about them. When I ask he says that he does not want to answer. Instead of lying, he just does not tell me. He is a very bad liar and I can tell by his nose if he lies to me or not. If I want to get an information out of him, I can lead a conversation to the point where he will tell me anyway.
He knows that sooner or later I will find out anyway and to avoid the embarassment being caught lying to me, he tells me when he feels ready.
I know though that he lies to other people. But most of the time I would not say that he is actually lying...again: what exactly is lying?
My alcoholic friend never actually lied to me. When drunk he could become very dramatic but what he said then was all true. On the other hand he avoids to tell me things and just does not talk about them. When I ask he says that he does not want to answer. Instead of lying, he just does not tell me. He is a very bad liar and I can tell by his nose if he lies to me or not. If I want to get an information out of him, I can lead a conversation to the point where he will tell me anyway.
He knows that sooner or later I will find out anyway and to avoid the embarassment being caught lying to me, he tells me when he feels ready.
I know though that he lies to other people. But most of the time I would not say that he is actually lying...again: what exactly is lying?
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Ituvia....yes, it is in character for him and his friends. this is how some men talk about women, when others are not looking.....men, who at baseline, do not respect women....He just kept it hidden from you. And, you didn't look for it....but, it was all on his phone....
Just because he hasn't ever had a girlfriend doesn't mean that he is not a player....
He was playing...that makes him a player....he told two women, at the same time that he would be with them forever.....
this man is not good relationship material...he has proven that....
Did you watch the video that I suggested in the thread (\For the brokenhearted).....
This guy is the "leaves",,,,or, maybe, a "branch"....but, he is not the "root"!
Just because he hasn't ever had a girlfriend doesn't mean that he is not a player....
He was playing...that makes him a player....he told two women, at the same time that he would be with them forever.....
this man is not good relationship material...he has proven that....
Did you watch the video that I suggested in the thread (\For the brokenhearted).....
This guy is the "leaves",,,,or, maybe, a "branch"....but, he is not the "root"!
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The last guy I lived with was not an alcoholic, but I finally kicked him out when I discovered he'd lied to me about his AGE, of all things, for the five years I'd known him. He lied about a ton of things--lies of omission and just plain BS. I don't believe he ever cheated on me or lied about something that harmed me directly, but he lied to make himself look good. It was almost pathological with him--zero humility. He was like those ads for The Most Interesting Man in the World.
So yeah, some people just lie.
So yeah, some people just lie.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Originally Posted by BFT
How would you define lying? I think that it is very difficult to tell where lying starts...
My alcoholic friend never actually lied to me. When drunk he could become very dramatic but what he said then was all true. On the other hand he avoids to tell me things and just does not talk about them. When I ask he says that he does not want to answer. Instead of lying, he just does not tell me. He is a very bad liar and I can tell by his nose if he lies to me or not. If I want to get an information out of him, I can lead a conversation to the point where he will tell me anyway.
He knows that sooner or later I will find out anyway and to avoid the embarassment being caught lying to me, he tells me when he feels ready.
I know though that he lies to other people. But most of the time I would not say that he is actually lying...again: what exactly is lying?
My alcoholic friend never actually lied to me. When drunk he could become very dramatic but what he said then was all true. On the other hand he avoids to tell me things and just does not talk about them. When I ask he says that he does not want to answer. Instead of lying, he just does not tell me. He is a very bad liar and I can tell by his nose if he lies to me or not. If I want to get an information out of him, I can lead a conversation to the point where he will tell me anyway.
He knows that sooner or later I will find out anyway and to avoid the embarassment being caught lying to me, he tells me when he feels ready.
I know though that he lies to other people. But most of the time I would not say that he is actually lying...again: what exactly is lying?
ITUVIA,
Im sorry I dont know your whole story. Did you know your BF when he was sober? Do you know what he was like as a person - his values, behaviors? I actually do think substances can change a person. In fact I saw a thread a while back on this site where people were talking about all the crappy things they did when drinking or using. And how once substances were withdrawn they are not that person anymore. I agree with that idea.
But I dont think its safe to write off all behavioral issues, actions to the use of substances. And its especially hard to know who someone really is if you never knew them before.. the only other option I think is to see what they are like after (if) they obtain sobriety. It could be a long wait, and then he might not be who you had hoped.
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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Mine lied about pretty much everything. Yes the type of lies were different when it came to alcohol. Number of drinks they had, I'm not drunk....etc etc etc. Those were the easy ones. Its the I'm going to be working late lies, or the its not sex if its not intercourse lies, or the I only work with him lies, or the I promise to not make a public scene lies. or or or or or or or.
It became a constant stress trying to figure out if this or that was a lie. No I didn't wreck the car (then how did this $1500 damage happen). Or the covering up for the lies when others figured it out.
Perfect ability to lie whenever needed, or tell the truth whenever it served.
Poor us for not knowing the difference.
Don't miss it one bit!!!!!
It became a constant stress trying to figure out if this or that was a lie. No I didn't wreck the car (then how did this $1500 damage happen). Or the covering up for the lies when others figured it out.
Perfect ability to lie whenever needed, or tell the truth whenever it served.
Poor us for not knowing the difference.
Don't miss it one bit!!!!!
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