The Problem with the Cancer Logic
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The Problem with the Cancer Logic
We often hear Alcoholism being compared to other diseases. What exactly do they have in common? Let's assume cancer for a moment. A disease that chooses its victim. There is no cure. The disease makes its victim sick and while not socially acceptable to admit, also burdens the family with caretaking. We stick by our cancer patients despite the havoc that is wreaked by the disease. We aren't angry at them. We feel sorry for them and want to do whatever we can to make it better, even at the expense of our own lives sometimes.
Fast forward to Alcoholism. We often hear from the sick person that this is a disease just like cancer. And would we treat the A any different then if they had cancer. Would we kick them out on the streets in a moment of sickness. Would we allow them to sit in their own puke and **** after chemo? Ah - ha....but there is the differentiator. Chemo. Cancer patients (often) want to get better so they may choose chemo as a means. Treatment makes them sick, but it heals the beast inside. So we accept it. We stick by them through the treatment and take all the havoc it wreaks because they are doing it to get well. They are fighting.
Where active alcoholics differ is that they do not choose treatment. So how do we sit by and clean up the **** and the puke when not for nothing? When it's simply the result of irresponsibility of the A in leaving the disease untreated until it flares up and results in a binge? A binge that could have been prevented by treatment during a period of sobriety? But..... what if we assume that a symptom of the disease of alcoholism is the very thing that prevents As from getting help. What if A's are in fact stunted in responsibility and lack an awareness of this very characteristic? Due to the comorbid rate of the disease, how do we manage this if part of the disease may play a hand in treatment prevention?
As much as I would like to believe that logic because it would give me the answers to the madness of A, it doesn't exactly hold water. For several reasons.
1 - Millions of people with this disease have sought treatment and managed to stay clean. Through consistently working the AA program and/or treating underlying mental health conditions with medication and therapy, many have broken through the darkness.
2 - Proof of responsibility shown in other areas of life. Let me share an example; My Abf is prone to repeated sty infections. When they occur his eye puffs up to almost half it's size and he cannot wear his contact lenses. It is red and painful and forces him to wear his glasses in public, glasses which make him feel less attractive. He is a handsome man and has relied on his looks for most of his life. Throughout this last year of repeated relapses, during periods of sobriety he will treat the sty when it occurs as though it were the most important thing in the world. I watch the way he cleans it. The way he comes home with a bag from the drug store full of ingredients for treatment. From drops to ointments, to patches and disinfecting rinses. I observe the way he gets up from the couch and pauses the game to periodically change the wash rag. The way he spends hours in front of the mirror inspecting its healing progression. The way he scrubs his hands perfectly prior to touching the eye. Even the way he makes appointments to the opthomologist, interrupting his day to take the bus and have it looked at. The way he follows up. The phone calls. How he never stops until the eye is 100% healed.
Imagine his sobriety were he to value it as his eyelid.
3 - Choice. This comes down to choice for everyone. In my own life, I have already seen examples of my Abf's ability to make choices that affect the outcomes of his life that are for the good. From the way he treats his eye infection to staying a little late at work to close a deal, the A in my life has repeatedly shown the ability and awareness of what to do to solve a problem in order to affect an outcome. He is aware. He understands responsibility. There can be no insanity plea. But let's say the above was not true and the A had no awareness or was "missing" the responsibility gene through no fault of his own. Would we stay? Would we be obligated to?
My sister once asked me this; Would you choose to be or stay in a relationship with a confessed serial killer? Whose roots can be traced back to an abusive father and a grossly neglectful mother? Whose actions can be attributed to bullying early in life? What about bullying anyways? or let's say just a simple lesion on their brain is the likely reason behind the madness. Would you stay? Mind you this is in no way comparing an A to a serial killer, but the logic is the same.
Perhaps once we let go of our own deep feelings of responsibility as codependents, we can invite calm and peace back into our lives. That maybe it doesn't matter why people do the things they do. I read somewhere on this forum that we weren't blessed with this life to donate it to another.
Fast forward to Alcoholism. We often hear from the sick person that this is a disease just like cancer. And would we treat the A any different then if they had cancer. Would we kick them out on the streets in a moment of sickness. Would we allow them to sit in their own puke and **** after chemo? Ah - ha....but there is the differentiator. Chemo. Cancer patients (often) want to get better so they may choose chemo as a means. Treatment makes them sick, but it heals the beast inside. So we accept it. We stick by them through the treatment and take all the havoc it wreaks because they are doing it to get well. They are fighting.
Where active alcoholics differ is that they do not choose treatment. So how do we sit by and clean up the **** and the puke when not for nothing? When it's simply the result of irresponsibility of the A in leaving the disease untreated until it flares up and results in a binge? A binge that could have been prevented by treatment during a period of sobriety? But..... what if we assume that a symptom of the disease of alcoholism is the very thing that prevents As from getting help. What if A's are in fact stunted in responsibility and lack an awareness of this very characteristic? Due to the comorbid rate of the disease, how do we manage this if part of the disease may play a hand in treatment prevention?
As much as I would like to believe that logic because it would give me the answers to the madness of A, it doesn't exactly hold water. For several reasons.
1 - Millions of people with this disease have sought treatment and managed to stay clean. Through consistently working the AA program and/or treating underlying mental health conditions with medication and therapy, many have broken through the darkness.
2 - Proof of responsibility shown in other areas of life. Let me share an example; My Abf is prone to repeated sty infections. When they occur his eye puffs up to almost half it's size and he cannot wear his contact lenses. It is red and painful and forces him to wear his glasses in public, glasses which make him feel less attractive. He is a handsome man and has relied on his looks for most of his life. Throughout this last year of repeated relapses, during periods of sobriety he will treat the sty when it occurs as though it were the most important thing in the world. I watch the way he cleans it. The way he comes home with a bag from the drug store full of ingredients for treatment. From drops to ointments, to patches and disinfecting rinses. I observe the way he gets up from the couch and pauses the game to periodically change the wash rag. The way he spends hours in front of the mirror inspecting its healing progression. The way he scrubs his hands perfectly prior to touching the eye. Even the way he makes appointments to the opthomologist, interrupting his day to take the bus and have it looked at. The way he follows up. The phone calls. How he never stops until the eye is 100% healed.
Imagine his sobriety were he to value it as his eyelid.
3 - Choice. This comes down to choice for everyone. In my own life, I have already seen examples of my Abf's ability to make choices that affect the outcomes of his life that are for the good. From the way he treats his eye infection to staying a little late at work to close a deal, the A in my life has repeatedly shown the ability and awareness of what to do to solve a problem in order to affect an outcome. He is aware. He understands responsibility. There can be no insanity plea. But let's say the above was not true and the A had no awareness or was "missing" the responsibility gene through no fault of his own. Would we stay? Would we be obligated to?
My sister once asked me this; Would you choose to be or stay in a relationship with a confessed serial killer? Whose roots can be traced back to an abusive father and a grossly neglectful mother? Whose actions can be attributed to bullying early in life? What about bullying anyways? or let's say just a simple lesion on their brain is the likely reason behind the madness. Would you stay? Mind you this is in no way comparing an A to a serial killer, but the logic is the same.
Perhaps once we let go of our own deep feelings of responsibility as codependents, we can invite calm and peace back into our lives. That maybe it doesn't matter why people do the things they do. I read somewhere on this forum that we weren't blessed with this life to donate it to another.
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Alcoholism/drug addiction is classified as a mental illness, so it's a disease in that way. While there are a few medications doctors use, "recovery" is in the individual's hands: there has to be honesty and willingness to go to any lengths to stay sober. Even when you're sober, however, the diseased thinking is still prevalent, especially denial and rationalization. I think the mistake many make is trying to use logic when someone is obviously self-destructing, destroying their lives and those of people they love. Addiction is an obsession in a similar way that falling in love is.
Codependents are also addicts, obsessed with other people's disease and a need to control it. Why we stay with people who bring us a lot of pain. It's the reason the 12 Steps work with both addicts and codependents.
These are my observations, both as a recovering alcoholic (25 years) and a codependent. Thanks to Alanon I learned to detach from a harmful person and work on my own recovery.
Codependents are also addicts, obsessed with other people's disease and a need to control it. Why we stay with people who bring us a lot of pain. It's the reason the 12 Steps work with both addicts and codependents.
These are my observations, both as a recovering alcoholic (25 years) and a codependent. Thanks to Alanon I learned to detach from a harmful person and work on my own recovery.
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr 
Alcoholism/drug addiction is classified as a mental illness, so it's a disease in that way. While there are a few medications doctors use, "recovery" is in the individual's hands: there has to be honesty and willingness to go to any lengths to stay sober.
But I do agree as the sober person on the other side of things, detaching from harmful persons is the only choice.
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Part of the disease is insanity. It is essentially insane to continue such destructive and devastating behavior, despite the obvious consequences. It doesn't make sense to others because others don't understand what it's like to not be able to stop. That's the very nature of addiction, not being able to stop. If the addict hits the kind of bottom that would be enough for them to actually get treatment and maintain lifelong recovery, well that is a very lucky fate. That kind of a bottom is a personal thing and many won't ever be able to get there or will die before they do.
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Thank you for "going there", Smarie. I agree with everything you say and the whole comparing it to cancer is ridiculous. A mental illness - possibly to an extent. But it's not like most of these A's have a inellectual disability that is genetically predisposed. They are just selfish and entitled addicts who blame everyone but themselves and manipulate beyond belief. They don't want to do the real and hard work to get better. A complete 180 from someone with cancer.
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I read somewhere on this forum that you donīt turn into an alcoholic overnight - you have to work at it, drink a lot for a long time, to develop an addiction to alcohol.
So that is probably the difference with a "regular" disease: there is the element of choice that leads to becoming an alcoholic. Perhaps there is a genetic predisposition to develop an addiction more easily but itīs not like alcohol can get you in its claws just like that, itīs not heroin or something similar. Itīs not at all like cancer either.
I think this is very important and it helps not to get confused and justify our alcoholicīs behaviors. Itīs very easy to feel sorry for them and get trapped up in guilt and whatnot.
So that is probably the difference with a "regular" disease: there is the element of choice that leads to becoming an alcoholic. Perhaps there is a genetic predisposition to develop an addiction more easily but itīs not like alcohol can get you in its claws just like that, itīs not heroin or something similar. Itīs not at all like cancer either.
I think this is very important and it helps not to get confused and justify our alcoholicīs behaviors. Itīs very easy to feel sorry for them and get trapped up in guilt and whatnot.
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Both my parents were alcoholics, and I grew up with my verbally abusive
and very difficult alcoholic mother.
I saw drinking growing up modeled as the "method" for dealing with pain or trouble,
so I got both genetics and conditioning.
Over time, my drinking went from social to party scene to eventual alcoholism.
From my perspective, with over four years of sober-time sans the occasional attempt to "moderate",
I also do not agree with the disease model.
Although the cards were certainly stacked against me as a child, ultimately
as an adult I made the choice to drink and keep drinking just as I've made
the final decision to stop, and to quit chasing the chimera of "moderation" forever.
Today, I embrace being a non-drinker as a positive choice, not a punishment.
I learned a lot of painful but also powerful life-lessons when I drank.
It hasn't all been for "nothing" but now I choose to learn and grow
in a much more positive way.
My life continues to evolve in so many directions where alcohol is just not a factor.
I don't see myself as in remission / cured so much as having moved on.
It's sort of like a toxic relationship that didn't work out--
I'm glad they (in this case booze) are out of my life, and that's the end of it.
and very difficult alcoholic mother.
I saw drinking growing up modeled as the "method" for dealing with pain or trouble,
so I got both genetics and conditioning.
Over time, my drinking went from social to party scene to eventual alcoholism.
From my perspective, with over four years of sober-time sans the occasional attempt to "moderate",
I also do not agree with the disease model.
Although the cards were certainly stacked against me as a child, ultimately
as an adult I made the choice to drink and keep drinking just as I've made
the final decision to stop, and to quit chasing the chimera of "moderation" forever.
Today, I embrace being a non-drinker as a positive choice, not a punishment.
I learned a lot of painful but also powerful life-lessons when I drank.
It hasn't all been for "nothing" but now I choose to learn and grow
in a much more positive way.
My life continues to evolve in so many directions where alcohol is just not a factor.
I don't see myself as in remission / cured so much as having moved on.
It's sort of like a toxic relationship that didn't work out--
I'm glad they (in this case booze) are out of my life, and that's the end of it.
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going to borrow this from Hawkeye..."Over time, my drinking went from social to party scene to eventual alcoholism."
I think this is the biggy for difference.. when I got breast cancer in Oct of 1968 I was just in college just 18 and just finding out about the fun of life with out my Pop watching everything.. and back then I did nothing that would create a problem... when I had to tell Mom of the lump.. the family of ladies all gathered round me in the bathroom.. Ladies I had trusted all my life with my growth and my body.. the first thing out of my Grandma Julia's mouth you know why that is a Man touched you there.. I sunk to the floor in sobs I had never even dated... or danced with or been alone with... I wore a big brown paper bag over my head for days.. Great Grand Dad.. stood the young lady of his heart in a corner of the barn.. my Dear and took off the bag and I just sobbed to the rafters of the barn.. for the men of the family were my best pals in the world.. and my Great Grand Dad.. had been the one that took me to the ladies on my 16th and said now you have to stay with them.. and I did not have a bra until my senior year in high school and the spring of 68 is when the world came crashing down with my first monthly... he fought back his own tears. and then they all walked in.. and hugged me and said this was not true... Cancer is DNA driven.. I have done some huge study on it... they were all with me from the Ladies to the Gents when the hospital staff took the worker the candy stripper the baby that was born there down the hall to surgery... one Doctor for the surgery... the one that had done my Grand Mothers and her sisters... all 5 stood him against the wall.. she will come out of there wholl and nothing missing but the lump or we will have your head.... I woke up to a huge bandage.. from the middle of my chest to the back...... morphine they used every 4 hours for the pain... my Dad sobbed the first time he watched me get the dose and not be there.. one of the ladies was with me after that for 2 weeks.. and then they had to pull off the big bandage that was a form of tape.... GrandMothers held me. my Mom kept praying the Men were all in the hall.. It was fast and pain full.. my cry brought everyone to the edge of the room ... Pop passed out.. the Doctor showed everyone of 25 people I was still in one piece .. Grand ma Julia held me carefully and rocked me softly.. love her so much yet....
Drinking and why I over did.. life pain.. . trying to grow up... did I do to much yep.. is it my fault Oh Hell yes... can I control this disease you bet your Life... and will I .... on my Grand Mothers heart I pledge .. I will.... why.. cause I love my family so very much.. no matter what.. and love my Hubby enough to hold the line on my drinking to be there for him forever..
sorry all long thoughts Friday Oct 14 2016... my Pops birthday today if he had lived to be 86... his drinking took him with cancer in Nov of 1999.... miss that old man very much.. my Pop the Barber the DI the Demon of my life...
I think this is the biggy for difference.. when I got breast cancer in Oct of 1968 I was just in college just 18 and just finding out about the fun of life with out my Pop watching everything.. and back then I did nothing that would create a problem... when I had to tell Mom of the lump.. the family of ladies all gathered round me in the bathroom.. Ladies I had trusted all my life with my growth and my body.. the first thing out of my Grandma Julia's mouth you know why that is a Man touched you there.. I sunk to the floor in sobs I had never even dated... or danced with or been alone with... I wore a big brown paper bag over my head for days.. Great Grand Dad.. stood the young lady of his heart in a corner of the barn.. my Dear and took off the bag and I just sobbed to the rafters of the barn.. for the men of the family were my best pals in the world.. and my Great Grand Dad.. had been the one that took me to the ladies on my 16th and said now you have to stay with them.. and I did not have a bra until my senior year in high school and the spring of 68 is when the world came crashing down with my first monthly... he fought back his own tears. and then they all walked in.. and hugged me and said this was not true... Cancer is DNA driven.. I have done some huge study on it... they were all with me from the Ladies to the Gents when the hospital staff took the worker the candy stripper the baby that was born there down the hall to surgery... one Doctor for the surgery... the one that had done my Grand Mothers and her sisters... all 5 stood him against the wall.. she will come out of there wholl and nothing missing but the lump or we will have your head.... I woke up to a huge bandage.. from the middle of my chest to the back...... morphine they used every 4 hours for the pain... my Dad sobbed the first time he watched me get the dose and not be there.. one of the ladies was with me after that for 2 weeks.. and then they had to pull off the big bandage that was a form of tape.... GrandMothers held me. my Mom kept praying the Men were all in the hall.. It was fast and pain full.. my cry brought everyone to the edge of the room ... Pop passed out.. the Doctor showed everyone of 25 people I was still in one piece .. Grand ma Julia held me carefully and rocked me softly.. love her so much yet....
Drinking and why I over did.. life pain.. . trying to grow up... did I do to much yep.. is it my fault Oh Hell yes... can I control this disease you bet your Life... and will I .... on my Grand Mothers heart I pledge .. I will.... why.. cause I love my family so very much.. no matter what.. and love my Hubby enough to hold the line on my drinking to be there for him forever..
sorry all long thoughts Friday Oct 14 2016... my Pops birthday today if he had lived to be 86... his drinking took him with cancer in Nov of 1999.... miss that old man very much.. my Pop the Barber the DI the Demon of my life...
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I read somewhere on this forum that you donīt turn into an alcoholic overnight - you have to work at it, drink a lot for a long time, to develop an addiction to alcohol.
Last edited by DesertEyes; 10-14-2016 at 11:12 AM. Reason: Fixed broken quote.
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It is a progressive disease though. I have watched the A in my life get progressively worse with binges and relapses getting closer and closer together...he worked at bars his whole life. Drank to have fun and party - even if he did it too much he was having fun.
Fast forward to now where instead his drinking isn't fun. It's sad and instead of laughing and smiling at the bar he locks himself in his room for a week of destruction and tears.
Ardy - thank you for your beautiful words. Happy birthday Pops.
Fast forward to now where instead his drinking isn't fun. It's sad and instead of laughing and smiling at the bar he locks himself in his room for a week of destruction and tears.
Ardy - thank you for your beautiful words. Happy birthday Pops.
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
I read somewhere on this forum that you donīt turn into an alcoholic overnight - you have to work at it, drink a lot for a long time, to develop an addiction to alcohol.
In my case, not true. There were no alcoholics in my family but at the age of nine I got the bottle of Seagrams in my parent's cupboard. I poured a shot as I'd seen my father do and put it down fast. I gagged and almost vomited. Then I had two more.
In my case, not true. There were no alcoholics in my family but at the age of nine I got the bottle of Seagrams in my parent's cupboard. I poured a shot as I'd seen my father do and put it down fast. I gagged and almost vomited. Then I had two more.
This blew my mind completely & I was only about 14/15 myself when he started sharing this kind of information with me.
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Alcoholism vs. Cancer
XAH behaviour vs. BF behaviour
After AXH and I broke up I started dating my long time friend who had also recently freed himself of a 20+yr marriage to an alcoholic. Things were going well and we were having lots of fun. Adventuring, travelling, just over all enjoying what time we could get together (long distance relationship) without the cloud of alcoholism hanging over our heads. It was new and fresh for both of us. Such joy. And then he was diagnosed with cancer.
He got second opinions, he got test after test. He researched. He had painful abdominal surgery and tolerated six months of chemo. He fought hard and followed doctors orders. He did everything he could to kick the a$$ of the disease that infiltrated and threatened his life. To stomp out the evil disease that threatened to take him away from me, his children, parents and other loved ones. He was a true warrior. A sick, uncomfortable, suffering the affects of chemo warrior, but a true hero none the less.
My exhusband let his "disease" run rough shod over himself, me, our marriage and our family. His "tries" were all lies. He never intended to get and stay sober. He saw what his alcoholism was doing to my health, he was told what it would do to our marriage. He chose to give in. He chose not to fight. He chose to put the keys in the ignition, he chose to go to the store, he chose to buy booze, he chose to drive drunk.He chose to stay sick because it was _easier_ then fighting to get healthy.
There is a _huge_ difference between choosing to stay an active alcoholic and being a cancer patient. As a woman who has dealt with both types of "illness" in my "romantic" life, I have a lot more respect for the man that chose to fight for his health than I do for the man that was willing to bring down his family to stay sick.
P.S. We saw the oncologist yesterday, seven months post chemo and all scans and blood work came black clear!
XAH behaviour vs. BF behaviour
After AXH and I broke up I started dating my long time friend who had also recently freed himself of a 20+yr marriage to an alcoholic. Things were going well and we were having lots of fun. Adventuring, travelling, just over all enjoying what time we could get together (long distance relationship) without the cloud of alcoholism hanging over our heads. It was new and fresh for both of us. Such joy. And then he was diagnosed with cancer.
He got second opinions, he got test after test. He researched. He had painful abdominal surgery and tolerated six months of chemo. He fought hard and followed doctors orders. He did everything he could to kick the a$$ of the disease that infiltrated and threatened his life. To stomp out the evil disease that threatened to take him away from me, his children, parents and other loved ones. He was a true warrior. A sick, uncomfortable, suffering the affects of chemo warrior, but a true hero none the less.
My exhusband let his "disease" run rough shod over himself, me, our marriage and our family. His "tries" were all lies. He never intended to get and stay sober. He saw what his alcoholism was doing to my health, he was told what it would do to our marriage. He chose to give in. He chose not to fight. He chose to put the keys in the ignition, he chose to go to the store, he chose to buy booze, he chose to drive drunk.He chose to stay sick because it was _easier_ then fighting to get healthy.
There is a _huge_ difference between choosing to stay an active alcoholic and being a cancer patient. As a woman who has dealt with both types of "illness" in my "romantic" life, I have a lot more respect for the man that chose to fight for his health than I do for the man that was willing to bring down his family to stay sick.
P.S. We saw the oncologist yesterday, seven months post chemo and all scans and blood work came black clear!
Last edited by SmallButMighty; 10-14-2016 at 11:30 AM. Reason: added info
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When I met my ex he was 4 years clean/sober with a past history of rehabs, counseling, meetings, sponsors etc. At the time I met him he was committed to his recovery and held that in the upmost regard. Fast forward 4 years from then and he made decisions to stop going to as many meetings, stopped talking with his sponsor regularly and then ultimately made the decision to seek out pain pills, take steroids and smoke pot.
Knowing his history, knowing he had previously lost his driver’s license, lost his home, lost jobs, friends and family he still CHOSE to put himself back on those tracks. He made a conscious decision NOT to get himself to a meeting, NOT to call a sponsor NOT to ask for help. In my opinion it was purely a choice using “disease” as the ultimate excuse.
Knowing his history, knowing he had previously lost his driver’s license, lost his home, lost jobs, friends and family he still CHOSE to put himself back on those tracks. He made a conscious decision NOT to get himself to a meeting, NOT to call a sponsor NOT to ask for help. In my opinion it was purely a choice using “disease” as the ultimate excuse.
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disease is defined as: an illness that affects a person, animal, or plant : a condition that prevents the body or mind from working normally
i don't think its appropriate to try to compare any two illnesses, as they manifest different. even people who have the same illness in common will have different levels of illness, symptoms and prognosis.
addiction has a very strong physical component....the body for a wide variety of reasons has an unhealthy reaction TO the substance.....a reaction that is limited to a certain subset - however there are certain highly addictive substances (meth, crack, heroin) that will overtake anyone who uses them regularly. the drug takes charge......it moves in, rewires synapses, forces the body into a state of craving/withdrawals that compel the person to use again.
unlike many other illnesses, addiction can be put into remission by halting further consumption. not without difficulty of course. but for any real recovery to take hold, there has to be some hard work at changing one's mindset and outlook and rebuking the desire to use again.
both hank and i are 9 years out from crack now. just the other day they had a news piece on "vaping" as an alternative to smoking. this guy was just chiefing on this vape pipe, as if he was underwater taking in oxygen thru a straw and blew out this ginormous cloud of white smoke. hank said it looked just like a huge hit of crack, a really good one. and i could feel the nervous energy coming off of him.....a brief "phenomenon of craving". and it put me on alert for a couple days......even after all this time, the "disease", the abnormality remains latent and waiting....and while i was 99% certain he wouldn't race off to get just "one more hit" his reaction was an unpleasant but perhaps necessary reminder.........the beast never sleeps.
i don't think its appropriate to try to compare any two illnesses, as they manifest different. even people who have the same illness in common will have different levels of illness, symptoms and prognosis.
addiction has a very strong physical component....the body for a wide variety of reasons has an unhealthy reaction TO the substance.....a reaction that is limited to a certain subset - however there are certain highly addictive substances (meth, crack, heroin) that will overtake anyone who uses them regularly. the drug takes charge......it moves in, rewires synapses, forces the body into a state of craving/withdrawals that compel the person to use again.
unlike many other illnesses, addiction can be put into remission by halting further consumption. not without difficulty of course. but for any real recovery to take hold, there has to be some hard work at changing one's mindset and outlook and rebuking the desire to use again.
both hank and i are 9 years out from crack now. just the other day they had a news piece on "vaping" as an alternative to smoking. this guy was just chiefing on this vape pipe, as if he was underwater taking in oxygen thru a straw and blew out this ginormous cloud of white smoke. hank said it looked just like a huge hit of crack, a really good one. and i could feel the nervous energy coming off of him.....a brief "phenomenon of craving". and it put me on alert for a couple days......even after all this time, the "disease", the abnormality remains latent and waiting....and while i was 99% certain he wouldn't race off to get just "one more hit" his reaction was an unpleasant but perhaps necessary reminder.........the beast never sleeps.
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mountainbob posted a sad, poignant cautionary tale on the power of addiction: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-his-wife.html
a man with 12 years sober "decided" it would be ok to have a glass of wine with his wife. at first, it was just that.....but not for long. he was quickly back to consuming mass quantities and also found a "legal" drug and got all strung out on that as well.
here's the thing, based on my ES&H regarding addiction....when that voice was in his friend's head, telling him that it would be perfectly OK to have an occasional glass of wine with his wife, it was a LIE. his addiction wanted the whole bottle, sans wife. as much and as often as possible. once one HAS this "problem" it never goes away and any attempt to resume consumption will always end the same, usually worse.
i myself chose to drink again after 7.5 years sober. why? because i wanted a drink, i wanted lots of drinks, i wanted to ESCAPE. started out with just one beer.......
a man with 12 years sober "decided" it would be ok to have a glass of wine with his wife. at first, it was just that.....but not for long. he was quickly back to consuming mass quantities and also found a "legal" drug and got all strung out on that as well.
here's the thing, based on my ES&H regarding addiction....when that voice was in his friend's head, telling him that it would be perfectly OK to have an occasional glass of wine with his wife, it was a LIE. his addiction wanted the whole bottle, sans wife. as much and as often as possible. once one HAS this "problem" it never goes away and any attempt to resume consumption will always end the same, usually worse.
i myself chose to drink again after 7.5 years sober. why? because i wanted a drink, i wanted lots of drinks, i wanted to ESCAPE. started out with just one beer.......
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This shows how precarious sobriety is. Last week was my 25th AA anniversary. I remarked that I've been going to the same meetings throughout but they never get any bigger. With all the newcomers we should be in Yankee Stadium, but most people don't stay sober.
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
This shows how precarious sobriety is. Last week was my 25th AA anniversary. I remarked that I've been going to the same meetings throughout but they never get any bigger. With all the newcomers we should be in Yankee Stadium, but most people don't stay sober.
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Originally Posted by bluelily
I read somewhere on this forum that you donīt turn into an alcoholic overnight - you have to work at it, drink a lot for a long time, to develop an addiction to alcohol.
So that is probably the difference with a "regular" disease: there is the element of choice that leads to becoming an alcoholic. Perhaps there is a genetic predisposition to develop an addiction more easily but itīs not like alcohol can get you in its claws just like that, itīs not heroin or something similar. Itīs not at all like cancer either.
I think this is very important and it helps not to get confused and justify our alcoholicīs behaviors. Itīs very easy to feel sorry for them and get trapped up in guilt and whatnot.
So that is probably the difference with a "regular" disease: there is the element of choice that leads to becoming an alcoholic. Perhaps there is a genetic predisposition to develop an addiction more easily but itīs not like alcohol can get you in its claws just like that, itīs not heroin or something similar. Itīs not at all like cancer either.
I think this is very important and it helps not to get confused and justify our alcoholicīs behaviors. Itīs very easy to feel sorry for them and get trapped up in guilt and whatnot.
I think for many, the most alcoholism starts in your 20's when heavy drinking and partying is perfectly socially acceptable, and the alcoholism isn't looked at as much. Move on to your 30's and 40's, and many more responsibilities come into play, careers, kids, spouse, house etc,.. and then the full blown alcoholism really starts to rear it's ugly head as it's putting more and more stress on everything.
While I agree I don't think alcoholism is a disease in the sense of say cancer where you don't have a choice in the matter, you could say it's along the lines of say type 2 diabetes that is a self inflicted one.
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That's the insanity and insidiousness of it. I remember when he wanted to try moderate drinking. "Because if you tell me I can't I'll want it more. So this way I don't feel deprived". That lasted two weeks until he was full blown relapsed . Whether he moderates or not he always relapses. The only thing that made him sober was when I saw him doing the work. When he got lazy the beast was back. A's must accept it is a full time job that will never end. But the rewards are so worth it.
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